Lasses Dream Build

Lasse · Jan 31, 2017

Thank you all

I´m sorry to say – its looks like my gut instinct was right. The CO2 level produced by 2 adults was not enough to supress the pH rise from the photosynthesis. The CO2 demand from the photosynthesis was higher than the CO2 contribution from the incoming air to my skimmer even than it comes from the sump cabinet. Some things get better – the time from highest pH to 8.15 is nearly 2 hours shorter. It means that it will be a little more carbon dioxide for my macros (light during normal night)

I will run this setup for a couple of weeks. Probably I will try with an external carbon dioxide source.

30/1 my set up was CO2 scrubber pH below 8.15 Over 8.15 skimmer off. 31/1 CO2 scrubber pH below 8.15 Over 8.15 air to skimmer from the cabinet

Sincerely Lasse

Lasse · Jan 31, 2017

@LN21

Fine to see you here. Now I will see a thread about your tank here also. You have a specular tank. Just put up some of your photos

Just a tease from LN21 tank

Sincerely Lasse

revhtree · Jan 31, 2017

Lasse said:
@LN21

Fine to see you here. Now I will see a thread about your tank here also. You have a specular tank. Just put up some of your photos

Just a tease from LN21 tank

Sincerely Lasse

I agree and welcome!

jsker · Jan 31, 2017

Lasse said:
@LN21

Fine to see you here. Now I will see a thread about your tank here also. You have a specular tank. Just put up some of your photos

Just a tease from LN21 tank

Sincerely Lasse

@LN21 peer pressure ;)

Turbo's Aquatics · Feb 1, 2017

Curiously, I just saw that BRS is carrying a CO2 scrubber, not sure that's a new things but I don't recall seeing one before. Kinda reminds me of that whole year that my favorite drink was SoCo rocks w/lime and then that started getting advertised by SoCo. Ahead of the curve

Lasse · Feb 1, 2017

Now you made me curious about Southern Comfort - must try it when I can

As I see it– a CO2 scrubber will be necessary in order to run a reef tank in the future. From 1960 to 2017 atmospheric Co2 concentrations has raised from 320 ppm to 400 ppm and its still rising. A pH of 8.1 corresponds to a athmospheric concentrations of 400 ppm. We will reach pH below 8 rather fast with this rate of rising CO2 levels. Things has been changing and there is today lesser hope that this problem will be solved than it was half a year ago. Most important – it’s not the hobby that’s threaten – we can fix it with CO2 scrubbers – it’s the whole coral systems in the oceans that are threaten. Try to fix that with CO2 scrubbers! And every reef aquarist can see this if they want to. Just get a pH meter – invite your neighbours, close the windows and inspect the meter.

Sincerely Lasse

Rick.45cal · Feb 2, 2017

Lasse said:
Now you made me curious about Southern Comfort - must try it when I can

As I see it– a CO2 scrubber will be necessary in order to run a reef tank in the future. From 1960 to 2017 atmospheric Co2 concentrations has raised from 320 ppm to 400 ppm and its still rising. A pH of 8.1 corresponds to a athmospheric concentrations of 400 ppm. We will reach pH below 8 rather fast with this rate of rising CO2 levels. Things has been changing and there is today lesser hope that this problem will be solved than it was half a year ago. Most important – it’s not the hobby that’s threaten – we can fix it with CO2 scrubbers – it’s the whole coral systems in the oceans that are threaten. Try to fix that with CO2 scrubbers! And every reef aquarist can see this if they want to. Just get a pH meter – invite your neighbours, close the windows and inspect the meter.

Sincerely Lasse

I actually just read an interesting article about a process using "artificial trees" that are buildings that circulate air, exposing sheets of an impregnated plastic that collects CO2, when full they are then "wrung out" with a small amount of water vapor. (This is apparently the part of the process that is very energy inefficient in all other CO2 collection models today, this one supposedly doesn't suffer that same issue). The liquid CO2 is compressed and will be deposited underground. It's an interesting and supposedly very effcient mechanism for atmospheric CO2 removal. (I was reading a national geographic, while I was waiting to get my haircut, I just remembered where it came from). Now if we can just get something implemented.

How is the plenum/sandbed working? What's the flow rate that you have going through it? I was also going to ask you a little more about how you use your dual ORP probes in the plenum. I'm guessing you are using their readings to determine whether the environment is anoxic or anerobic and you are controlling your flow rate via your dosing pump based on those reading. (You've got my curiosity sparked).

It will be interesting to see when you start playing with an external CO2 source. 25 years ago I worked with a very savvy gentleman at a store that specialized in aquaria. He swore 8.2 was the sweet spot for calcification. (I'm willing to bet he thought that for many of the same reasons you have formed your hypothesis). Back then everyone was trying to use buffers to stabilize the pH

Your tank is looking absolutely stunning! One of my favorites for sure.

gettaReef · Feb 2, 2017

Keeping pH absolutely stable in the 8.1-8.2 range, like you are attempting to do, would be so beneficial for our coral health/growth as well as for coralline algae. Doing this by utilizing the air input of the skimmer, switching from air in the home to through a simple C02 scrubber, is genius! I have a few questions:

Where did you purchase the 3-way motorized ball valve? Did you see anything similar to purchase on ebay?

How is this method different than your first attempt using a 3-way ball valve (I seem to remember you doing it this way before)? Is the only change a better quality ball valve?

Instead of using a C02 scrubber have you attempted to use air from outside your home?

How and where in your setup do you plan to introduce C02 now that you know it is needed?

And sorry if this is a dumb question, but how exactly do you measure C02 in your system? Is there a way to figure it out (maybe calculate it) using some of the other measurements you take?

Sorry for all the questions. I am very excited to see the results and possibly imitate this on my system. I am happy you found a method to keep a stable pH without turning the skimmer off and on several times everyday. I also love the other experiments you perform on your system. This is how progress is made!

Lasse · Feb 2, 2017

Thank you Rick

For the moment around 10 litres a day pass the sand bed. I do not manage it with my redox – in this flow it will be around 10 to -10 mV. However – the plans is to do that. I measure the water below the sand bed – it means that probably is ORP lower in the middle of the sand bed. This has run for 10 months now. For the moment I put in 1 ppm KNO3 a day. My NO3 level is 5 ppm just now - PO4 - 0.05 ppm. I try to have the NO3 level between 1 and 5 ppm.

The second Redox probe measure the ORP at the sump. I use Oxydators so I´m interested to see how the redox looks like. The Oxydator is placed close to the return pump and the redox probe measure the sump´s incoming water.

I´m planning to measure the pH below the sand bed – I´m only waiting for my new Profilux 4 :)

Sincerely Lasse

Rick.45cal · Feb 2, 2017

Thank you for clarifying that. Very cool system. Are you still pumping your skimmate down into the plennum? I bet your macro algae is very happy in there.

Lasse · Feb 2, 2017

gettaReef said:
Keeping pH absolutely stable in the 8.1-8.2 range, like you are attempting to do, would be so beneficial for our coral health/growth as well as for coralline algae. Doing this by utilizing the air input of the skimmer, switching from air in the home to through a simple C02 scrubber, is genius! I have a few questions:

Where did you purchase the 3-way motorized ball valve? Did you see anything similar to purchase on ebay?

Here but look for "3 way motorized ball valve DN15 1/2" L port (reduce port)electric ball valve"

gettaReef said:
How is this method different than your first attempt using a 3-way ball valve (I seem to remember you doing it this way before)? Is the only change a better quality ball valve?

First attempt was a small 3 way solenoid valve . The design constricted the airflow too much

gettaReef said:
Instead of using a C02 scrubber have you attempted to use air from outside your home?

Its more effective with a scrubber - outside air + scrubber - perfect

gettaReef said:
How and where in your setup do you plan to introduce C02 now that you know it is needed?

Below the DSB

gettaReef said:
And sorry if this is a dumb question, but how exactly do you measure C02 in your system? Is there a way to figure it out (maybe calculate it) using some of the other measurements you take?

Only indirect through the pH. The CO2 graph I have published is the content in the air in my livingroom - I use a station from Netatmo

gettaReef said:
Sorry for all the questions. I am very excited to see the results and possibly imitate this on my system. I am happy you found a method to keep a stable pH without turning the skimmer off and on several times everyday. I also love the other experiments you perform on your system. This is how progress is made!

Thank You

Sincerely Lasse

Lasse · Feb 2, 2017

Rick.45cal said:
Thank you for clarifying that. Very cool system. Are you still pumping your skimmate down into the plennum? I bet your macro algae is very happy in there.

Now and then

Sincerely Lasse