LED lighting vs t5

[A. grandis]

A quality led fixture will serve you well and last as long as they should. When it comes to led you do get what you pay for, literally. That being said I run a hydra 52 over my tank and I'm pretty happy with it but I'm adding a couple T5s to suppliment my light at which point I think I'll really be content with my lighting. So in short my answer would be both. Each light has its own merits and together they really do the job well.

Just my opinion, as you all know already...
A quality T5 fixture will serve you and last long as they should with better light distribution, showing amazing uniformity.
When it comes to T5s you so get what you pay for, literally. A nice fixture with cooling will help your bulbs to last longer and keep the unit cool, like the ATI Sunpower. I recommend only T5s for shallow tanks and if you really, really NEED that blue "pop" from LEDs you can add some on the side. Keep in mind that some of the T5 bulbs will give you plenty quality blue light.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

I love hearing how LEDs are so much cheaper. My situation...

I have 180 gallon mixed reef and looking for new light. Needs to be strong enough for SPS.

Option 1
3 radions plus hanging devices going to cost me $2500+.

Option 2
5' ATI Sunpower fixture $663
8 bulbs $200

I would need to change bulbs every 9 months at $200 costs. Meaning I would have to change the bulbs 8 more times or 6-7 years down the road before I broke even. In 3 years your LEDs fixtures will need a new update and the newer technology will be far superior to what it is today, making your LEDs out dated and leaving u to spend more money.

Even if they don't need updating. 7 years until you break even in costs.

Don't forget about power costs in your analysis.

5 Foot T5
80wx8x10 hoursx365 days=2,336 kWh

Radions at 100%
170wx3x10hpursx365 days = 1,862 kWh

Radions at 50%
85wx3x10hoursx365 days =931 kWh

Savings with LED:
474 kWh/year x $0.12/kWh = $56.88/ year
1405 kWh/year x $0.12/kWh = $168.80/year

At 100%, the LED cost break even is in 7.9 years. At 50% it is in 5.1 years. This analysis ignores the additional costs of heat removal from your home with the T5.

I used your numbers but I've been told T5 should be changed every 6 months rather than 9. Anyway, after 8 years you still have another 6 years of life in the fixture if you use the 100% example. There's 8.5 years left in the 50% example. You can keep using it or sell it. You don't have to upgrade the light if it is working for you.

If you countinue to use it for the remaining 6 years of life T5 will cost you $1240-1912 more than LED. Over the remaining 8 years in the second example it is even more.

Again, he's asking:
In your opinion what is the better light for coral mix tank? LED or t-5's?

Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Just an interesting note. I heard a interview with Sanjay Joshie about switching over to LEDS from MH. One result was that he has to use 3, 300 watt heaters running non stop in the winter to keep his tank warm, while with the MH he used no heaters. The heaters used more power then the amount he saved by using LED's. I'm sure it evens out in summer by not needing a chiller... but still interesting.

You guys should discuss costs here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/l...y-to-light-a-reef-at-least-not-for-me.331910/
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

The physics of that don't work. He might be saving less power now that he needs heaters but he can't be using more power than previously.

Question is: Is he totally happy with the Acros using LEDs?
Are those 10 LED fixtures better for the corals than the halides he had?
Please ask him next time you see him.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

FWIW, I and many others can get a solid 12 months of use from T5's in an ATI fixture. Yes, 9 months would be optimal in a retrofit situation but you can easily get 12 months out of T5's when they are properly cooled.

The break even point of LED's can be misleading as yes you will break even in say 5 years, but by that time you would have already upgraded to a later model, not to mention the fact that the LED's would have some degradation and loss of output by then. I just cant see anyone running the same LED unit, or it working optimally, 5-7 years on.

Concerning @carolinareefguy :

On a standard 180gl the 5' ATI 8 bulb Sunpower would be the ideal choice. You would be able to grow everything and anything with that light fixture. You wont have to mess with settings nor spend an exorbitant amount of money for an "inferior" lighting system. When I say "inferior" I say so in comparison to what you can achieve with MH and T5.

A T5 combo of ATI Blue+ and ATI Aquablue Special will grow and color corals better than any other system out there. The only other lighting that would beat out the T5 but not produce as nice of colors would be an XM 10K MH.

For an SPS system T5 gets my vote.

Are you kidding????!!!
NICE pics! Uniformity of light embracing the corals!!!

Halides! Halides!!!

Perhaps this is the Aquactinics Constellation 7x54W T5?
Nice! Serious stuff right there!!!!

FROM: http://reefsite.com
I love your pics man!!
Good job!!!
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Sanjay spoke of it in a recent Podcast. I don't believe he is using more power now but its almost the same as when he ran MH due to the heaters running constantly. I believe he stated that he was looking to add two more Radions, which would push him over and end up costing more energy than the MH.

2 more Radions? He has already 10 units.
When did he say that?
Wow!!
He will probably go back to the halides... it's just a matter of time!
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Hello,

While I cant speak for the science I can point you to the Podcast: http://cdn.wso.net/reefthreads/podcasts/rt259.mp3

They talk about the heaters at 24:30. He states that in the winter he has almost 400W of heaters running constantly now that the MH have been removed. In the interview he also states his concerns about the lighting spectrum, coral growth patterns, and that growth under LED is about 80% of what it was under MH. All in all he is happy with the transition.

And yes, I do recall the debate when T5 was taking off. I remember 10 years ago that many told me it would never work but The Germans had already proved T5 to be a success so I was confident in my approach. LED's work and grow corals just fine. But why use an inferior technology when a better one already exists? I'm not talking about heat or expense, I am referring directly to coral growth and color. For the general hobbyist LED cannot yet replicate the results of MH and T5. Im certain the LED's will get there but if I were to make a recommendation on lighting today I would certainly recommend an ATI T5 fixture.

Thank you,

IMO the people that argue about the growth/color factors between LEDs and T5s don't really know what T5s are able to deliver. It is better in many ways. You know... we can say the old saying here : "you pay for what you get when choosing the lights for you reef tank".
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

@Dana Riddle have you heard of this too? That some kind of sunrise sunset is somehow better than just simply on/off? I used to do a sunrise sunset and now just do on off, and have noticed zero change to the health or growth of my coral?

No matter at all! When I was a kid we didn't have dusk. Was on/off.
I know serious people that don't do the dusk. Doesn't absolutely matter for corals and the fishes are used to what you keep as a routine. Trust me on that, my friend.
I do dusk just for us to watch.
You're totally fine doing on/off.

I got carried away with this thread. I gotta get some sleep.;Wideyed
Nite, nite, my friends.;Dead

Grandis.

 

[Amoo]

For God's sakes man this thread is over a year old...... it only got brought up again because people were asking about the sunrise/sunset effect....

 

[A. grandis]

For God's sakes man this thread is over a year old...... it only got brought up again because people were asking about the sunrise/sunset effect....

Oh, LOL!! I'm so sorry! I didn't notice that...
Sorry man... I need to finish work to get some sleep.
By the way... I remember that the dusk could have some importance for fish spawning, if anything...
ZZzzZZzzz....
Grandis.

 

[TheEngineer]

For God's sakes man this thread is over a year old...... it only got brought up again because people were asking about the sunrise/sunset effect....

Don’t worry about him. When he’s not on here looking for any post that talks about LEDs so he can repeatedly express his unsupported opinions about them he’s home protesting those horseless carriages people are driving around. “Why drive when a horse is clearly a better mode of transportations?” he says.

 

[A. grandis]

Don’t worry about him. When he’s not on here looking for any post that talks about LEDs so he can repeatedly express his unsupported opinions about them he’s home protesting those horseless carriages people are driving around. “Why drive when a horse is clearly a better mode of transportations?” he says.

LOL! You're funny!
I don't think my opinions are unsupported at all. That's a false statement. Please read other threads about the subject and find out more about that. Some of them I choose not to post and that is the best proof of what I'm saying.
I'm not the only one that supports the t5s and MHs as the best lights for reef tanks in terms of health/growth of corals in general here. It's just that many people need to listen over and over. The reason for that is because they have also their over and over excuses to be blind to the evident results. They actually fire the T5s using the non sense excuses of their electric bills. That's all that some of the guys talk about here...
I'm glad many people have supported and spoken their opinions without any fear!!
This LED hype has been going on too long for many of us. It's mostly a marketing strategy that many of our friends here are tired of!!!
To fire my opinions is to bring attention to what I say.
Please go ahead and help people to see the posts I publish.
Thanks!


Grandis.

 

[TheEngineer]

Your false statements have been discredited repeatedly in thread after thread. You are an exemplar of the worst sort of participant in these forums. You spout the same drivel over and over again, listen to no one and proclaim your sanctity as a bastion of truth even in the face of facts.

You sir are a troll, plain and simple. Why the @mods haven’t banned you is beyond me. You reduce the quality and value of every conversation you touch.

 

[Dana Riddle]

@Dana Riddle have you heard of this too? That some kind of sunrise sunset is somehow better than just simply on/off? I used to do a sunrise sunset and now just do on off, and have noticed zero change to the health or growth of my coral?

I'm not aware of any research done in this area, other than the timing of the onset of darkness is the biological timer for many corals' spawning. Zooxanthellae respond to changes in lighting very quickly (such as when the sun reappears from behind a cloud.) Ramping up or down of protective xanthophylls take a while longer, about 15-20 minutes, if need be.

 

[Donovan Joannes]

LED shouldn't degrade that fast if driven slightly less than their max current rating. I have been using a cheap chinese components for my LED build and very happy with the result. One biggest enemy of LED is heat, a good heat dissipation is mandatory. Those with silent cooling fan model must ensure the fan and cooling fins are clean, periodically check and do some cleaning is necessary.

If heat and money are not a problem, I will go with quality T5 fixtures. Till then, LED will be my choice.

 

[LostInTheDark]

Try put the money together or go credit card, if you can. Get the best fixture you can afford.
ATI SunPower is the one I recommend. I have my fixture for 10+ years and never get tired of it...
Quality! Cooling = longer life for your bulbs! Excellent reflectors!!!
Grandis.

I went ATI 8x80 T5s a 1 1/2 years ago after all the trouble with LEDs. Glad I did. Trouble free and the tank looks great. I did break down one of the Ocean Revives and made a 72" light bar from the pieces. I use it as my sunrise/sunset and adds some POP to the tank.

 

[Mirkus]

I went ATI 8x80 T5s a 1 1/2 years ago after all the trouble with LEDs. Glad I did. Trouble free and the tank looks great. I did break down one of the Ocean Revives and made a 72" light bar from the pieces. I use it as my sunrise/sunset and adds some POP to the tank.

I just switched over to led's after using t5s and reefbrites for the last 6 years or so. I wanted to make a change so I did. The biggest drawback to t5's in my opinion is the flat light. I think it's easy to manage the heat (I live in mild climate).

 

[A. grandis]

Your false statements have been discredited repeatedly in thread after thread. You are an exemplar of the worst sort of participant in these forums. You spout the same drivel over and over again, listen to no one and proclaim your sanctity as a bastion of truth even in the face of facts.

You sir are a troll, plain and simple. Why the @mods haven’t banned you is beyond me. You reduce the quality and value of every conversation you touch.

The quality of the messages are getting better and better here IMO. I'm not sure what you are talking about.
I'm learning and trying to help others.
I really believe that you should be the one banned from any forum with such personal aggressions.
I hope you have a better day tomorrow.
Peace.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

I'm not aware of any research done in this area, other than the timing of the onset of darkness is the biological timer for many corals' spawning. Zooxanthellae respond to changes in lighting very quickly (such as when the sun reappears from behind a cloud.) Ramping up or down of protective xanthophylls take a while longer, about 15-20 minutes, if need be.

Hello Dana,
I didn't know anything about the onset of darkness and coral spawning. I knew the lunar cycle is crucial, not dusk. That is interesting! If you have a time please give us some references. I would love to read. Thanks!
Aloha,
Grandis.

 

[Anthony_MC67]

I have 4 Ocean Revive LEDs over a 225 and if I had it to do over again I would go T5. They say LEDs should last for years without any degradation but that has not been mine or other local reefers experience. I don't know about the high end LEDs but the lower end like I use tend to shift spectrum over time and slowly burn out. I've had to replace the diodes several times over the last few years and have lost many corals until I figured out what was happening. If you go to the Ocean Revive forum you'll find several threads about it with users of other brand LEDs chiming in. I'm considering going T5 now but am finding it hard to spend another $850 on lights after wasting money on these LEDs.

I have 1 ocean revive over my cube and it is not great at all. I can never be happy with any set up of light intensity. It either looks too blue or too white.