Lets Discuss Ethics in the Hobby

[Eagle_Steve]

So, due to a previous thread and the last comment by a Mod, what is considered ethical?

Is killing a hermit by stomping on it ethical? If no, then why is injecting vinegar into an aiptasia OK? If yes, then why all the uproar?

You see where I am going here. But let expand a little.

By injecting the nem with vinegar, you are burning it. Yet stepping on a hermit to kill it quickly is not OK?

At least it is quick and you are not injecting the crab with vinegar.

Then we get into nuking tanks for baddies. Think about how much stuff dies when you reset a tank and dry a rock out. Is that OK.

Does "ethical" only apply to fish and crabs? Would it not apply to all "living things"?

Buy the way, lets keep this PC and "Be Nice".

 

[brandon429]

I throw corals in the trash repeatedly, pounds worth. nobody wants unmounted frags in lubbock. a coral waster. more red monti going belly up soon/it shades if I dont break it off and immediately waste it. if there were any agencies who would take my toss frags and go stock real bleached reefs with it, I'd mail them chips to plant. none want my unmounted frags

 

[brandon429]

one way I avoid many issues on ethics is I only keep corals/no fish and my corals are f4+ generations they're not from stores except from back in the 2000s

perpetuating can't be hated on it seems even if a % lands in the trash. fish harvesting/ugg/large tanker's problems not mine now that could be some ethics issues...I wouldnt view captive bred marine fish as unethical.

ones from the ocean? not sure. we sure do eat a lot of them, keeping some alive for extended periods doesn't seem all that bad if speciation is controlled it seems/ no depletion wild stocks.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Is it ethical to dump a bristleworm from your socks into the trash? What about a Bristletooth?

Where's the line and how is it drawn?

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Well, I recycle my stags. Is that ethical or not?

No LFS will take them, locals all already have some and I am not paying for shipping or shipping things.

So I trim them, feed them to my general stars and then melt them down in my CaRX.

Is this wrong?

I feel it is not. I am just letting the same corals reuse themselves over and over.

 

[reefbandit]

Who cares do what works for you everyone will never agree and you will always get the peta types

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Who cares do what works for you everyone will never agree and you will always get the peta types

I am just more into defining R2R ethics. I feel this needs to be outlined, as what is currently known is to "be nice and care for our critters". If I do not consider something a critter, then how can it be deemed unethical when I remove it and kill it.

Maybe I should have done the title as "What is considered a critter in a reef tank"?

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Who cares do what works for you everyone will never agree and you will always get the peta types

This form cares.

"Please remember our TOS calls on members to treat the animals in their care ethically."

So if you are to abide by the Terms of Service to treat animals ethically, Do we not think we should define terms and understand what that means?

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

If someone wants aptasia is it ethical?
If the hermit crab is a desired or non desired animal I the line for me.
Say someone smashes a gorilla crab. That is more acceptable than a dwarf hermit that is actually a part of your cuc.
This is the line for me as a person.
D

 

[Eagle_Steve]

This form cares.

"Please remember our TOS calls on members to treat the animals in their care ethically."

So if you are to abide by the Terms of Service to treat animals ethically, Do we not think we should define terms and understand what that means?

Exactly.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

I'm gonna blast my purple tang into space later today with fireworks or a rocket I made myself. Does this seem ethical? Lol
Asking ppl about what's ethical or not is totally based off the individual persons morals and their own ethics.
D

 

[Eagle_Steve]

If someone wants aptasia is it ethical?
If the hermit crab is a desired or non desired animal I the line for me.
Say someone smashes a gorilla crab. That is more acceptable than a dwarf hermit that is actually a part of your cuc.
This is the line for me as a person.
D

But a gorilla crab is also part of a CUC. So smashing it could be considered bad. I have almost zero detritus in my sump due to one. Not a lick of food that goes down the overflow and into the sump escapes it. Due to this, that crab binds organic as it grows.

But a hermit does eat GHA and left over food too. So they sort of serve the same purpose. One just eats fish and the other may eat snails.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

I'm gonna blast my purple tang into space later today with fireworks or a rocket I made myself. Does this seem ethical? Lol
Asking ppl about what's ethical or not is totally based off the individual persons morals and their own ethics.
D

I am trying to determine those other persons ethics to help determine what R2R should and should not consider ethical.

If we are the treat our animals ethically and post have to reflect those ethics, shouldn't we get a consensus of what most consider ethical or not ethical?

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

If someone wants aptasia is it ethical?
If the hermit crab is a desired or non desired animal I the line for me.
Say someone smashes a gorilla crab. That is more acceptable than a dwarf hermit that is actually a part of your cuc.
This is the line for me as a person.
D

For discussions sake. In my tanks, I have banned hermits. That makes them undesirable.

Would it be ethical for me to quickly dispatch one, even though it is a desirable animal to your CUC?

I know of 2 members here with gorilla crabs as sump monsters. Desirable to them, not to me.


Does OUR personal use/classification of the animal determine if it is ethical?

Should others bee allowed to make that distinction for themselves?

I'm interested what the Forum thinks, as they have it in the Terms of Service.

 

[FishOkay]

At the end of the day its like what Abraham lincoln use to say "Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves"

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I'm gonna blast my purple tang into space later today with fireworks or a rocket I made myself. Does this seem ethical? Lol
Asking ppl about what's ethical or not is totally based off the individual persons morals and their own ethics.
D

I Agree. Should it be in the TOS?

Who should be allowed to make the call on Your or My ethics?

 

[Eagle_Steve]

At the end of the day its like what Abraham lincoln use to say "Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves"

And the rest that goes with that.

So in reality, we all are denying freedom to things. Yet we are also keeping them fed, predators away from them, etc.

I get where you are going and I hope you see where I am going. While out fish do not fit what Lincolns statement was meant to address. Then this whole hobby with any hobby that involves critters is wrong. No matter if we make their life the best it can be from our point of view.

You have a tank, or at least your avatar is a tank. So it puts you at fault also. This is not the direction I am looking for this to go. Take out the glass box and then lets move to the critters as to what is or is not ethical.

We all know that the arguments can be made for fish have it better in a glass box most of the time or that we are cruel for not letting them be part of the food chain.

Lets get down to the specifics. Like is killing an undesirable creature ethical or not.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So, due to a previous thread and the last comment by a Mod, what is considered ethical?

Is killing a hermit by stomping on it ethical? If no, then why is injecting vinegar into an aiptasia OK? If yes, then why all the uproar?

You see where I am going here. But let expand a little.

By injecting the nem with vinegar, you are burning it. Yet stepping on a hermit to kill it quickly is not OK?

At least it is quick and you are not injecting the crab with vinegar.

Then we get into nuking tanks for baddies. Think about how much stuff dies when you reset a tank and dry a rock out. Is that OK.

Does "ethical" only apply to fish and crabs? Would it not apply to all "living things"?

Buy the way, lets keep this PC and "Be Nice".

IMO - there is a “line in the sand” for animal ethics. Everyone has one, even PETA. Most people abhor kicking a dog, but have no concern killing billions of bacteria every time they flush their toilet. The issue is - where is your line and is it defensible? I’ve taught an aquarium ethics class at a couple of universities, but have not been able to refine where that line should be. As mentioned, people frag and kill CITES corals - is that past the line? My garbage can says no. The best that I can come up with is if you lose animals due to poor husbandry or laziness, you’ve crossed the line.

Jay

 

[fish farmer]

I am trying to determine those other persons ethics to help determine what R2R should and should not consider ethical.

If we are the treat our animals ethically and post have to reflect those ethics, shouldn't we get a consensus of what most consider ethical or not ethical?

Is fragging a coral ethical? They do seem to stress when chopped.

 

[Gtinnel]

The way that I see it is that an animal should never be mistreated but if it needs to be killed ethically then I see no issue with it, even if the way that I see as being ethical seems gruesome. It is made even better if the animal can be used by another animal.

I guess if forced to really contemplate it the way I determine how humane an animal needs to be treated is by how easy it is for the animal to breed/replicate. For instance I don’t think a thing of killing a bristle worm or limpet that I have tons of in my tank by throwing them in the trash, but I would try to humanly kill a fish and not just throw it away if for some reason it had to be killed.