My Current QT Process

[HotRocks]

My apologies for all the posts/questions. I hate losing fish!
@HotRocks can I mix the following fish in QT (minimum tank size?), I plan on 14 days Copper (2.0 min?) + alternating GC/Metro per Day 1-9 schedule and then transfer to clean tank (same size) for :
1 - Yellow Tang (small, 2")
1 - Yellow Watchman Goby (small)
1 - Starry Blenny (small)
1 - Clown (small, 1")
2 - Yellow Tail Damsels (small)
1 - 6-line Wrasse (small, 1.5")

Yes you can do that. I would use a 20g tank. Copper at 2.0-2.25.

 

[reelredfisah]

So on the 31st will be 14 days in CP...this being not just my first QT but also first time using CP.

So once I move them to tank two what should I treat for? I assume internal parasites/disease.

I have the following on hand.

Furan 2

General Cure

MetroPlex

Focus

KanaPlex

ParaGuard

Praziquantel Powder

Methylene Blue

PraziPro liquid

I dont want to mess this up so advice appreciated.

 

[MnFish1]

I know that of you wash the container dirty of bleach with vinegar, you can use it straight away. Am I wrong?

you shouldn't mix vinegar and bleach....

Bleach + Vinegar = Toxic Chlorine Gas. While the combination does create a good disinfectant, these two common cleaning agents should never be used at the same time. Why: Adding any weak acid to bleach will release toxic chlorine and chloramine vapors.

 

[MnFish1]

@HotRocks @4FordFamily @ngoodermuth @Brew12 Have any of you used Dr. G's Medicated food (contains CP). They recommend a certain dose for treatment, a certain dose for QT / Prophylaxis. Supposedly effective for

Amyloodinium Ocellatum or Oodinium is a parasite that primarily attacks the gills. Symptoms include rapid respiration, lethargy, loss of appetite and color fading.

Brooklynella symptoms similar to Oodinium, but it also produces a heavy amount of slime. A thick whitish mucus covers the body, skin lesions appear and signs of secondary bacterial infections may arise.

Cryptocaryon or Marine Ich causes white spots (like grains of salt) on the surface of the fish. It may also cause breathing problems, abnormal swimming, a layer of mucus and cloudy eyes.

Uronema Marinum symptoms include rapid breathing, flashing, color fading, weight loss and dehydration. The fins of infected fish become slightly opaque and appear brittle with frayed edges.

They recommend twice/day feeding for treatment and once/day for prophylaxis

 

[hyla84]

Sorry, what I meant is use bleach first and then after rinsing with water rinse again with vinegar and then water again. It should remove any bleach remaining. Am I wrong?

 

[MnFish1]

Sorry, what I meant is use bleach first and then after rinsing with water rinse again with vinegar and then water again. It should remove any bleach remaining. Am I wrong?

yes - any bleach remaining will be released as chlorine gas - depending on the concentration. When I use bleach I just use a maybe 5x strength of chlorine neutralizer - which also takes care of it.

 

[reelredfisah]

So on the 31st will be 14 days in CP...this being not just my first QT but also first time using CP.

So once I move them to tank two what should I treat for? I assume internal parasites/disease.

I have the following on hand.

Furan 2

General Cure

MetroPlex

Focus

KanaPlex

ParaGuard

Praziquantel Powder

Methylene Blue

PraziPro liquid

I dont want to mess this up so advice appreciated.

Any feedback here I want to ensure I am prepared in advance.

 

[Brew12]

@HotRocks @4FordFamily @ngoodermuth @Brew12 Have any of you used Dr. G's Medicated food (contains CP). They recommend a certain dose for treatment, a certain dose for QT / Prophylaxis. Supposedly effective for

Amyloodinium Ocellatum or Oodinium is a parasite that primarily attacks the gills. Symptoms include rapid respiration, lethargy, loss of appetite and color fading.

Brooklynella symptoms similar to Oodinium, but it also produces a heavy amount of slime. A thick whitish mucus covers the body, skin lesions appear and signs of secondary bacterial infections may arise.

Cryptocaryon or Marine Ich causes white spots (like grains of salt) on the surface of the fish. It may also cause breathing problems, abnormal swimming, a layer of mucus and cloudy eyes.

Uronema Marinum symptoms include rapid breathing, flashing, color fading, weight loss and dehydration. The fins of infected fish become slightly opaque and appear brittle with frayed edges.

They recommend twice/day feeding for treatment and once/day for prophylaxis

I have not, and I'm not familiar with any studies done using CP medicated food, unfortunately.

 

[MnFish1]

I have not, and I'm not familiar with any studies done using CP medicated food, unfortunately.

Well if anyone wants to try some I will ship it to them .... I bought 4 packets - by mistake - I wanted the 'de-wormer' version - as compared to the anti-parasitic version....

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks @4FordFamily @ngoodermuth @Brew12 Have any of you used Dr. G's Medicated food (contains CP). They recommend a certain dose for treatment, a certain dose for QT / Prophylaxis. Supposedly effective for

Amyloodinium Ocellatum or Oodinium is a parasite that primarily attacks the gills. Symptoms include rapid respiration, lethargy, loss of appetite and color fading.

Brooklynella symptoms similar to Oodinium, but it also produces a heavy amount of slime. A thick whitish mucus covers the body, skin lesions appear and signs of secondary bacterial infections may arise.

Cryptocaryon or Marine Ich causes white spots (like grains of salt) on the surface of the fish. It may also cause breathing problems, abnormal swimming, a layer of mucus and cloudy eyes.

Uronema Marinum symptoms include rapid breathing, flashing, color fading, weight loss and dehydration. The fins of infected fish become slightly opaque and appear brittle with frayed edges.

They recommend twice/day feeding for treatment and once/day for prophylaxis

I can see it being useful if you have flagellates in the intestinal tract or internally. Same with Uronema. I struggle with the fact it would be able to completely erradicate an external affliction of any of the above listed parasites solely by feeding. If it were that easy, quarantining fish would be a breeze

 

[saltyhog]

One thing i am waiting is for some experienced reefer comment on using CP vs Copper.

That being said, on my first batch the two fishes (Coral Beauty and Neon Damsel) I added the CP before adding them. and the 2nd batch with two blood orange clownfish I added the fish to QT for a two days, feed them and make sure they are eating and getting use to their new place, 3rd day i added CP. this time after the CP the clown did not eat for nearly a week. In both batches they were fine.

Also i wouldn't add many fish on a 10 gallon depends on what species you are getting.

@HotRocks and @4FordFamily are the experts here but I'll share my thoughts with you after using both. They are both effective but for me Copper is easier and has some other advantages. CP can be broken down by a biofilter, there by lowering levels below therapeutic range. Since we have no way to test levels that is a bit of a problem. It also requires us to manage ammonia in the QT with water changes which is a big hassle due to having to dose the new water with CP before using. CP is also hard to get for those that don't have a DVM, MD or DO license.

If you had asked me this 6 months ago I would have said CP was my preferred. I had some very poor experiences with copper and the horrible test kits back then. However, the new Hanna checker for copper and Copper Power have been game changers for me. Very easily to manipulate levels. I have put three batches of wrassses (the last finished copper yesterday) and not a one of them turned a hair....er uh scale. Ate well and had no issues during the treatment. Furthermore due to copper not being affected/absorbed by my ceramic media I was able to have a vigorous biofilter on day one...and one I can use again and again. I just do water changes to get my copper level back down to 1.0 and start over with the next batch of fish.

 

[MnFish1]

I can see it being useful if you have flagellates in the intestinal tract or internally. Same with Uronema. I struggle with the fact it would be able to completely erradicate an external affliction of any of the above listed parasites solely by feeding. If it were that easy, quarantining fish would be a breeze

Right that was why I asked - they advertise it as a method of QT (i.e. when you add new fish - you re-treat the tank. Perhaps thats just a way to get more 'sales'.

My problem with it was that one fish thats a complete monster - tried to gobble up everything - which made me worry about an OD - but all of the fish loved the food. Its an interesting concept.

 

[MnFish1]

@HotRocks and @4FordFamily are the experts here but I'll share my thoughts with you after using both. They are both effective but for me Copper is easier and has some other advantages. CP can be broken down by a biofilter, there by lowering levels below therapeutic range. Since we have no way to test levels that is a bit of a problem. It also requires us to manage ammonia in the QT with water changes which is a big hassle due to having to dose the new water with CP before using. CP is also hard to get for those that don't have a DVM, MD or DO license.

If you had asked me this 6 months ago I would have said CP was my preferred. I had some very poor experiences with copper and the horrible test kits back then. However, the new Hanna checker for copper and Copper Power have been game changers for me. Very easily to manipulate levels. I have put three batches of wrassses (the last finished copper yesterday) and not a one of them turned a hair....er uh scale. Ate well and had no issues during the treatment. Furthermore due to copper not being affected/absorbed by my ceramic media I was able to have a vigorous biofilter on day one...and one I can use again and again. I just do water changes to get my copper level back down to 1.0 and start over with the next batch of fish.

Curious - I assume that CP means chloroquine PO4 - but some people use it for Copper Power. ?

 

[saltyhog]

Curious - I assume that CP means chloroquine PO4 - but some people use it for Copper Power. ?

Thanks for that @MnFish1! Yes CP is my standard abbreviation for chloroquine phosphate. Never thought about it starting with the same letters as Copper Power!

 

[4FordFamily]

@HotRocks and @4FordFamily are the experts here but I'll share my thoughts with you after using both. They are both effective but for me Copper is easier and has some other advantages. CP can be broken down by a biofilter, there by lowering levels below therapeutic range. Since we have no way to test levels that is a bit of a problem. It also requires us to manage ammonia in the QT with water changes which is a big hassle due to having to dose the new water with CP before using. CP is also hard to get for those that don't have a DVM, MD or DO license.

If you had asked me this 6 months ago I would have said CP was my preferred. I had some very poor experiences with copper and the horrible test kits back then. However, the new Hanna checker for copper and Copper Power have been game changers for me. Very easily to manipulate levels. I have put three batches of wrassses (the last finished copper yesterday) and not a one of them turned a hair....er uh scale. Ate well and had no issues during the treatment. Furthermore due to copper not being affected/absorbed by my ceramic media I was able to have a vigorous biofilter on day one...and one I can use again and again. I just do water changes to get my copper level back down to 1.0 and start over with the next batch of fish.

I echo these sentiments. CP is also allegedly degraded by light and the fish themselves (metabolizing). Again, whether this has a marginal impact or not, no one knows for sure yet. Lots of testing being done by others on this topic.

I agree that copper is generally better or at least measurable and safer than it was prior to Hanna’s copper checker.

Prime works well in CP to keep ammonia toxicity down, IME.

 

[HairyGary]

@HotRocks and @4FordFamily are the experts here but I'll share my thoughts with you after using both. They are both effective but for me Copper is easier and has some other advantages. CP can be broken down by a biofilter, there by lowering levels below therapeutic range. Since we have no way to test levels that is a bit of a problem. It also requires us to manage ammonia in the QT with water changes which is a big hassle due to having to dose the new water with CP before using. CP is also hard to get for those that don't have a DVM, MD or DO license.

If you had asked me this 6 months ago I would have said CP was my preferred. I had some very poor experiences with copper and the horrible test kits back then. However, the new Hanna checker for copper and Copper Power have been game changers for me. Very easily to manipulate levels. I have put three batches of wrassses (the last finished copper yesterday) and not a one of them turned a hair....er uh scale. Ate well and had no issues during the treatment. Furthermore due to copper not being affected/absorbed by my ceramic media I was able to have a vigorous biofilter on day one...and one I can use again and again. I just do water changes to get my copper level back down to 1.0 and start over with the next batch of fish.

Haha! I do the same thing. Just finished up a wrasse in copper power two weeks ago and did a water change to drop copper per hanna down to 1.2. Just added two more wrasse into the same tank after they finished prazi and GC/focus food for about 2 weeks. Once 14 days is up in 2.1 copper power I place in clean tank for a couple of days and then into acclimation box.

 

[dwest]

@HotRocks and @4FordFamily are the experts here but I'll share my thoughts with you after using both. They are both effective but for me Copper is easier and has some other advantages. CP can be broken down by a biofilter, there by lowering levels below therapeutic range. Since we have no way to test levels that is a bit of a problem. It also requires us to manage ammonia in the QT with water changes which is a big hassle due to having to dose the new water with CP before using. CP is also hard to get for those that don't have a DVM, MD or DO license.

If you had asked me this 6 months ago I would have said CP was my preferred. I had some very poor experiences with copper and the horrible test kits back then. However, the new Hanna checker for copper and Copper Power have been game changers for me. Very easily to manipulate levels. I have put three batches of wrassses (the last finished copper yesterday) and not a one of them turned a hair....er uh scale. Ate well and had no issues during the treatment. Furthermore due to copper not being affected/absorbed by my ceramic media I was able to have a vigorous biofilter on day one...and one I can use again and again. I just do water changes to get my copper level back down to 1.0 and start over with the next batch of fish.

Hey salty. What copper level did you take your last batch of wrasses to?

 

[Pbh-reef]

Hi @HotRocks & @4FordFamily just wondering if you have a protocol for Prazi resistant flukes at this point, is it fenbendazole or hypo or something else?

 

[HotRocks]

Hi @HotRocks & @4FordFamily just wondering if you have a protocol for Prazi resistant flukes at this point, is it fenbendazole or hypo or something else?

You can try hypo. It may work. If it doesn't then you will likely need to resort to formalin.

 

[saltyhog]

Hey salty. What copper level did you take your last batch of wrasses to?

2.0 to 2.05. Introduced them to the tank at 1.0 as in HotRocks procedure and then added small amounts of Copper Power morning and evening over the next 3 days to get to the final level. Kept them in that for 14 days....17-18 days total.