My Current QT Process

[HotRocks]

Super helpful info thanks. I really like the sound of having a tank with a biofilter for QT as that greatly reduces the risks of ammonia.

Also I was looking at biospira and dr. tim's (I assume they are essentially the same thing). Do you add the entire contents to the QT tank? Or add enough to seed it and save the rest for the 2nd tank?

I use one bottle per tank. Unless it's only a 20 gallon tank or smaller. Then I'd split it. Biospira has been working better than Tim's lately.

 

[HotRocks]

Can I put a Blue Cleaner Wrasse or are they one of those fish that can't be put in copper.

They can yes. They are expert level fish and very difficult shippers. So they can present a challenge in that regard.

 

[User]

I use one bottle per tank. Unless it's only a 20 gallon tank or smaller. Then I'd split it. Biospira has been working better than Tim's lately.

I’m 1/3 for Tim’s, and probably 13/13 with Biospira. I always go purple

 

[Ciwyn]

I’m 1/3 for Tim’s, and probably 13/13 with Biospira. I always go purple

I use one bottle per tank. Unless it's only a 20 gallon tank or smaller. Then I'd split it. Biospira has been working better than Tim's lately.

What does biospira seem to be doing better than Tim's? I've never used bottled bacteria before.

 

[ReefWithCare]

What does biospira seem to be doing better than Tim's? I've never used bottled bacteria before.

No idea but that has also been my experience with both products. Biospira always seems to work. Dr Tim’s is hit or miss. I also like MB7 by brightwall aquatics

 

[HotRocks]

The last few bottles I got of Dr Tim's wasn't processing ammonia. I would still get a registerable amount. Dump in biospira and it was gone within 24 hours.

I'm talking with newly set up QTs.

 

[linus.chan]

When adding general cure to frozen food, i want to make sure i understand what you mean by 'scoop' and Tablespoon.

My frozen food comes in sheets, is a tablespoon measuring the food in suspension in liquid? or taking frozen food and putting into a tablespoon?

I am also not clear as my General Cure has come in packets from API and no scoop. What is the best way to add this to the food?

Linus

I am frequently asked what my process is for QT, so I am just creating a thread that I can link users to for a reference.

On arrival day, I match salinity in QT to arriving fish or make sure it's a touch lower (Usually 1.018).

Acclimate (float for 30-45min in bag and release) fish directly into a QT that is pre-dosed to 1.0ppm copper (copper power) upon arrival. This is much safer than drip acclimation and removes the possibility of ammonia exposure during acclimation.

I start fish off on food soaked general cure + Focus day one (continue for 14 days).
I do also keep live food on hand and feed live foods as well for the first few days until the picky eaters and others are eating frozen well.

Dosage for food soaked meds:
Add 1 scoop of GC (scoop that comes with focus) + 1 scoop focus per 1 tablsespoon of prepared frozen food. I add selcon + a touch of garlic to help dissolve the meds.
*You can also use Metroplex in place of general cure, it does however only treat for intestinal parasites instead of intestinal parasites + worms*. This food can be refrigerated once medicated. Is for 3-5 days, toss and make new.

Then I spend the next three days raising cu level to 1.75ppm. increasing the level .25ppm per day. I do this by dosing half of the daily increase in the am and the other half in the pm.

At this point I am watching very closely for external symptoms of bacterial infections. If one arises or a fish prone to infection stops eating then I dose Spectogram (Kanamycin+Nitrofurazone) and continue throughout copper. You can also use Kanaplex+furan-2. The WCs are fun maintaining the therapeutic Cu level. But once you have the hang of it, it's not bad. Copper has to be pre-dosed into new SW prior to adding to tank to keep Cu level from dropping below therapeutic.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ratios-for-dosing-copper-power.385871/

Also, If you are combining ABX + Copper you need heavy agitation at the surface of the water. This can be best achieved by running a powerhead aimed upward at the surface. I also run air stone and HOB filter. The combination of these meds will deplete the water column of oxygen at a heavy rate so you have to compensate.

Keep in mind ABX are slow to work on fish. They are likely to be even slower in the presence of copper due to the weakened immune system. So the Spectogram IME has always prevented infection from worsening. Some have healed. I do also keep Sulfaplex and Neoplex handy for certain types of infections. They are safe to use with copper.

After 14 days of therapeutic copper I transfer to a 2nd sterile QT. Temp/salinity matching.

After the transfer if I have a fish that is still showing signs of infection I would run a 14 day course of NFG. If no signs of infection is present I would skip NFG.

Last step is two rounds of Praziquantel using either GC or Prazipro. I prefer GC as it contains metronidazole as well and covers a few other diseases like Brook and uronema. This treatment is dosed into the water column to treat externally, as I have covered internal issues during copper with the food soaked meds.

14 Days of observation post medications prior to transfer to DT in order to make sure the fish are healthy and disease free.

This is a very aggressive approach. I can tell you though I have improved my success rate significantly since adapting to this method. It is not bulletproof. The bottom line is you may have to changeup in the middle of the process due to unforeseen circumstances.

After the Hanna checker discovery I was getting fish through copper without much issue, but using the same tank and treating for 30 days I was losing fish in the 20-30 day range to bacterial infection. So now using multiple tanks and reducing the copper exposure time along with having the proper ABX to be used with/without copper it is what worked best for me. We are still working on tweaking it a bit. Most of this system was designed/adapted with much help of @Humblefish + @4FordFamily. To keep up with the unfortunate condition we have recently been receiving it may have to be altered as time passes.

I also preform FW dips if I see a fish scratching in copper (After 7 days at the therapeutic level) to check for flukes and/or provide temporary relief. If a fish arrives with velvet/velvet symptoms they get a FW dip as well as a 90 min Ruby Reef rally bath per @Humblefish's normal protocol.

Fish with suspected ammonia burn would receive a 30 min bath in Methalyne Blue.

My Personal Medication list:
Copper Power
API General Cure
NFG http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html
Spectrogram http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html#spectrogram
Kanaplex
Metroplex
Neoplex
Sulfaplex
Furan-2
Methalyne Blue
Ruby Reef Rally
Formalin

This is a very helpful link by @Humblefish regarding fish meds:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/medications-to-keep-on-hand.213574/

Couple other great links regarding QT:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-dos-and-don’ts-of-quarantine.203898/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-control-in-a-hospital-tank.296119/

 

[HotRocks]

@linus.chan

Use the little scoop from the focus bottle. It's equivalent to 1/8 teaspoon roughly.

So for frozen food I use sheets and cubes, I thaw them and then strain off the liquid add my garlic and selcon. This "paste" is what I measure a tablespoon of and add the "scoop (1/8 tsp)" to.

 

[Ciwyn]

The last few bottles I got of Dr Tim's wasn't processing ammonia. I would still get a registerable amount. Dump in biospira and it was gone within 24 hours.

I'm talking with newly set up QTs.

Well that's really good enough reason.

Now do you leave the QT tank with copper set up after the transfer so it's available for other new fish or take it down and sanitize it?

 

[HotRocks]

Well that's really good enough reason.

Now do you leave the QT tank with copper set up after the transfer so it's available for other new fish or take it down and sanitize it?

I try to sanitize every 2 or 3 batches. Depends on what went through the tank. If I was dealing with nasty bacterial infections or something I'd sanitize no matter what. If not I'd just do a 50% WC to lower copper level enough to add new fish and then ramp back up.

 

[Brian Kennedy]

@HotRocks I've started a full tank upgrade and will eventually need to move the inhabitants of the current tank to the new one. Due to a complete lack of knowledge when starting the tank there are definitely bad things in the tank. To date I've seen Ich, possibly velvet, I lost a CBB to bacterial infection and a flame angel to internal parasites.

My questions are:

1. Should follow the complete 28 day process to ensure clean, healthy fish are going into the new display?
2. How do I get the non fish inhabitants moved? Leave them in the old tank fallow for 76 days?

2x - Oscillaris Clowns
3x - Green Chromis
1x - Powder Brown Tang
1x - Pintail Fairy Wrasse
1x - Starry Blenny

1x - Blue Knuckle Hermit
1x - Halloween Hermit
1x - Coral Banded Shrimp
1x - Skunk Shrimp
1x - Emerald Crab
1x - Strawberry Crab
1x - Sand Sifting Star
1x - Margarita snail
4x - nassarius snails

 

[HotRocks]

@Brian Kennedy It would be a great time to place the fish in QT and treat them between the old tank and the new.

All of your inverts can just stay in your existing tank for the 76 day fallow period. You could also have you new tank cycling during the process as well. The fish will just have to be held in QT until the other invert inhabitants + any LR or coral completes the 76 day fallow period.

 

[4FordFamily]

When adding general cure to frozen food, i want to make sure i understand what you mean by 'scoop' and Tablespoon.

My frozen food comes in sheets, is a tablespoon measuring the food in suspension in liquid? or taking frozen food and putting into a tablespoon?

I am also not clear as my General Cure has come in packets from API and no scoop. What is the best way to add this to the food?

Linus

Here's a video I made to the effect years back. This before tankpocalypse while I was on vacation, I miss those fish RIP.

We add the metro or GC and focus to this slurry of food, for me it's a bit arbitrary but I feed it for quite a while.

 

[4FordFamily]

I’m 1/3 for Tim’s, and probably 13/13 with Biospira. I always go purple

I agree I am done with Dr Tims. Inconsistent at best. The bottles that work work very well, but so many do not. I suspect it's due to the temperature variations in distribution -- I imagine nasty heat is worse, and who knows how long that bottle sat on a shelf and who knows if it was even inside for that time -- before you receive it.

I do the same when I get new fish as soon as I can get them eating. After I saw all the crap in one fish under the microscope...I'll never not treat internally even if the fish looks healthy.

I couldn't agree more with this, and it's a REALLY unfortunately situation that this is required but I 100% agree that it is now.

 

[Rython]

@4FordFamily @HotRocks @Humblefish

Given the Uronema discussion we've been having, do you guys think there might be a benefit to running trifecta instead of Spectrogram during copper with this method? Or maybe Spectrogram + metronidazole? I'm not sure which combination would be gentler.

I'm just concerned that feeding GC soaked food during the copper + abx period followed by 2 doses of GC in the water a week apart after the transfer might be insufficient to prevent Uronema deaths, and might even allow it to slip through to the DT since I would expect this protocol to knock it back some (possibly masking symptoms).

Conversely, the more meds we add, presumably the harder it is on the fish.

Thoughts?

 

[Humblefish]

@Rython Two proactive methods for treating ich + velvet + brook + uronema are as follows:

1. Chloroquine phosphate
2. Combining copper + metronidazole

If using API General Cure with copper, just substitute your first & last metro treatment for GC. (Since GC already contains metro, you want to avoid overdosing by only using Metroplex or straight metronidazole powder 48 hrs before or after GC.) Treatment regimen would go like this:

Day 1 - Dose General Cure
Day 3 - Dose metro
Day 5 - Dose metro
Day 7 - Dose General Cure
Day 9 - Dose metro (probably optional at this point)

^^ That will deworm a fish + effectively treat for brook & uronema. Add copper to the above, and you're also prophylactically treating for ich + velvet.

 

[4FordFamily]

@Rython Two proactive methods for treating ich + velvet + brook + uronema are as follows:

1. Chloroquine phosphate
2. Combining copper + metronidazole

If using API General Cure with copper, just substitute your first & last metro treatment for GC. (Since GC already contains metro, you want to avoid overdosing by only using Metroplex or straight metronidazole powder 48 hrs before or after GC.) Treatment regimen would go like this:

Day 1 - Dose General Cure
Day 3 - Dose metro
Day 5 - Dose metro
Day 7 - Dose General Cure
Day 9 - Dose metro (probably optional at this point)

^^ That will deworm a fish + effectively treat for brook & uronema. Add copper to the above, and you're also prophylactically treating for ich + velvet.

Agree. Spectrogram helped cut down in bad infections but I wouldn’t add it to the above unless you see reason to. We do, but not sure if we should advise everyone to do the same yet. Still doing some testing. Will know more within the month.

 

[Rython]

Well I've used the protocol described in the op for the past 2 batches of fish and experienced significantly reduced mortality, so I don't want to give up on ABX + copper. I lose more fish to bacterial infections than anything else, but uronema is second. Velvet is enough of a risk that i want to run copper asap too.

I might just do as HF advised and instead of doing just deworming in the second tank, do metro treatment too.

 

[HotRocks]

Well I've used the protocol described in the op for the past 2 batches of fish and experienced significantly reduced mortality, so I don't want to give up on ABX + copper. I lose more fish to bacterial infections than anything else, but uronema is second. Velvet is enough of a risk that i want to run copper asap too.

I might just do as HF advised and instead of doing just deworming in the second tank, do metro treatment too.

After this Uronema outbreak I just experienced.

I just acclimated a batch directly into therapeutic copper + metro. (Not saying I recommend this) . We are constantly testing methods/meds to see what the magical combo is.

 

[Rython]

Interesting. I wondered if you'd try that, since appetite supression hasn't seemed to be an issue with a fast ramp, even with species previously thought to be sensitive. Any "sensitive" species in that batch? Any signs of appetite supression? By theraputic do you mean 1.5 or did you go all the way to your targeted 1.75?