Gotta love live rock!Yeah and that's the whole thing. Maturity I I don't want Seeded dead rock. I want critter filled,live rock.
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Gotta love live rock!Yeah and that's the whole thing. Maturity I I don't want Seeded dead rock. I want critter filled,live rock.
truth#7
You don't have enough Coral.
No! Nooooooo! NO!
You don't have enough coral to dose even the lowest amount on the bottle. But I have X gallons! Forget it, you don't have the coral load. But aminos say minimum amount to dose is X. Maybe dose a half that or better yet, leave it alone. My corals look X I need Trace Elements! I'll mix some Tropic Marin into my 2 part. No. No you don't. You need a water change maybe.
I strongly believe in the old "Blue Thumb".
Interesting post!
#5 is pretty funny, imo. Been doing this for over 30 years.
For me the simple truth to a successfull reef tank is to have a plan from day one and focus on keeping your desired parameters in range.
Its really that simple, imo.
Without a plan most will fail.
Agree, real liverock is best. Started in early 90s and liverock was a joke. Even shipped in from Figi not that great. Just too much time in transit back then.. Started new tank last April with Gulf aquacultured and was pricey but with gorgonians and corals that lived easily thru the cycle that barely existed. Never seen liverock like that. Did have a few pests but well worth it. U will get them eventually anyway so have a plan. All very easy now with google.I must throw in that im a live rock guy. I did start my current build thread 120 with 50/50 live and caribsea dry. Alot less headaches, and I would rather deal with pests than the time it takes for a dead rock tank to mature.
Interesting post! All are valid truths IMO. Especially #9. I’m going through a fallow phase right now, and coral growth is nonexistent. Can’t wait to have my fish back.So after well over a year and putting all the new aged science and techniques to use, I am now on the other side of what feels like tank maturity, where I can speak to Acroporas.
Truth #1
The only benefit to starting with dry rock is to DIY your custom aqua scape. All other reasons are a candle in the wind. Yes you have grand ideas of being pest free etc but that leads me to...
Truth #2
Systems without pests are a unicorn. I don't say they can't exist, I'm just saying that it's more a possibility that persons who claim they don't have pests are either unaware of its existence due to its location or they have an active pest control method employed keeping the numbers low to invisible. The only benefit one could consider to be a half merit is that with a dry rock system, you are the weak link. Eventually, YOU the user will put something into the tank that will lay dormant for ages and then will pop up leaving you wondering "When?"
Truth #3
There is more to tank biology than cycling, seeded media and bottled bacteria. This is the great unknown.
I started with tons of seeded media that was years old, in my sump and a few pieces in my display, I used added bottled bacteria, etc. As a point I'm also barebottom but my sump has an entire 14 x 12x 10 chamber of sand and rubble from a living reef. This helped greatly to get started and I started growing coralline specs in a week but things didn't take off until quite a while later.
Truth #4
Coralline is a good indicator of reef readiness but it is NOT the end all and be all for growing Acros. Some types of acros will live and even grow but there is an unknown biology/chemistry factor that, until this is reached/Obtained/Achieved, will hinder other types of acros from growing. From my personal experience, hardy stags can go in early and I've had luck with Valida as well. Everything else seemed to just stall out or swung back and forth between looking fine today and horrible tomorrow. If you meet a stick that has lived through hell and back it's still only a 50/50 chance of holding on until stability arrives.
Can these odds be improved, YES! But!!....
Truth # 5
Everybody is a master of....absolutely nothing!
We reef keepers get lucky. The successful ones are the those that have achieved two things IMHO. The first being, they have a system. Whether it's a planned system or just a bunch of habits BUT all these do is improve odds. Nothing more. In the end, for all our big talk, we know almost nothing still.
The second thing that's achieved is sort of my own theory that others MIGHT share. I believe in the theory of beginners luck but in reefing I strongly believe in the old "Blue Thumb". This is the guy that does all you do or even less. He is lazy to our eyes and laid back but anything he tosses in his tank will grow out of the water. He's the guy you ask everything, you test his water personally when you get a frag from him and his params may be the same as your or even waaaay off the BRS recommends. Then you sit in front of your tank depressed, wondering why your stuff doesn't move and wondering if putting on a cheerleading outfit and doing a jig will get them going. FIGHTING!!!!
But that ain't it. The guy has just earned, somewhere along the line, the blue thumb. He's the professional basketball player that couldn't miss a simple shot even if he just lazy shot it.
Oh and to make it worse, he can start a brand new tank from scratch and still outgrow you. He will though, almost never start a tank with dry rock. He don't care bout no stinkin Negative space Scape. Lol. Give him a wall of age old cycled rock and let him get to work.
Truth #6
When copepod populations naturally boom on your rockwork where you see them running like roaches from crevice to crevice, you are close to some level of maturity. I'll take that even a tad over coralline as a marker for maturity for me. It means that something biological is supporting life at the micro level that corals seem to be able to pick up on.
Truth #7
Enjoy the Lower half of your tank, the first year of BAREBOTTOM, dry rock. There are tones to explore in LPS and Softies until you get to maturity. Barebottoms can be hacked to speed maturity to a point if you have live sand elsewhere whose water feeds directly to your return without too much filtration. Eg, I have live sand from a nearby reef. My sump is built similarly to the IceCap sumps but larger and my would be water reservoir holds sand and rubble with one wall lower than the others so water overflows and the return piped off to feed it, which then overflows back into the return. The sand is deep but the water that feeds it can be turned off in case of emergency.
Truth#7
You don't have enough Coral.
No! Nooooooo! NO!
You don't have enough coral to dose even the lowest amount on the bottle. But I have X gallons! Forget it, you don't have the coral load. But aminos say minimum amount to dose is X. Maybe dose a half that or better yet, leave it alone. My corals look X I need Trace Elements! I'll mix some Tropic Marin into my 2 part. No. No you don't. You need a water change maybe.
Truth #8
Keep your alkalinity between 7.5 and 8.5. I choose 8 personally until I'm mature. Higher Alkalinity drives growth but you don't want growth now. You want things that have lived in the sea for millennia to develop, mature and stabilize in parameters that are more at home to them. After that, you can mess with driving growth.
Truth #9
Fish are the secret to feeding your reef. It's not aminos. Trust me. Aminos are useful if you stripped the water, which you shouldn't, but if your system is mature and stable, and your fish are fat then nutrients aren't a problem as long as they are in a safe range. I'll go further to say that Nitrate and Phosphate concentrations are what we get hung up on but ideally, corals prefer 100% ammonia or was it ammonium? ITS Whatever comes out the fishes gills or pee places. Go ask Randy Holmes Farley or something.
I might eventually touch on lighting but that's even more contentious than Trump.
Did I miss a truth? Share yours.
@revhtree We need a R2R Hall of Fame where we highlight one of the great ones each year and you give them a Trophy. Maybe even livestream it. I nominates Randy Holmes Farley. I'm drinking....leave me alone. Lol
Hahahaha, get it out, man!! I’m another “90’s reefer” (1996, to be exact). I’ve always been fascinated by the absolute over-complication that plagues the hobby. Everybody has their ups and downs, and everybody has lost livestock - if they’ve been in the hobby for a while… some in the first day, right?! In my 24 reefing years (25 next month), I’ve always held close to me another “hard truth” that so many people seem to forget to mention:So after well over a year and putting all the new aged science and techniques to use, I am now on the other side of what feels like tank maturity, where I can speak to Acroporas.
Truth #1
The only benefit to starting with dry rock is to DIY your custom aqua scape. All other reasons are a candle in the wind. Yes you have grand ideas of being pest free etc but that leads me to...
Truth #2
Systems without pests are a unicorn. I don't say they can't exist, I'm just saying that it's more a possibility that persons who claim they don't have pests are either unaware of its existence due to its location or they have an active pest control method employed keeping the numbers low to invisible. The only benefit one could consider to be a half merit is that with a dry rock system, you are the weak link. Eventually, YOU the user will put something into the tank that will lay dormant for ages and then will pop up leaving you wondering "When?"
Truth #3
There is more to tank biology than cycling, seeded media and bottled bacteria. This is the great unknown.
I started with tons of seeded media that was years old, in my sump and a few pieces in my display, I used added bottled bacteria, etc. As a point I'm also barebottom but my sump has an entire 14 x 12x 10 chamber of sand and rubble from a living reef. This helped greatly to get started and I started growing coralline specs in a week but things didn't take off until quite a while later.
Truth #4
Coralline is a good indicator of reef readiness but it is NOT the end all and be all for growing Acros. Some types of acros will live and even grow but there is an unknown biology/chemistry factor that, until this is reached/Obtained/Achieved, will hinder other types of acros from growing. From my personal experience, hardy stags can go in early and I've had luck with Valida as well. Everything else seemed to just stall out or swung back and forth between looking fine today and horrible tomorrow. If you meet a stick that has lived through hell and back it's still only a 50/50 chance of holding on until stability arrives.
Can these odds be improved, YES! But!!....
Truth # 5
Everybody is a master of....absolutely nothing!
We reef keepers get lucky. The successful ones are the those that have achieved two things IMHO. The first being, they have a system. Whether it's a planned system or just a bunch of habits BUT all these do is improve odds. Nothing more. In the end, for all our big talk, we know almost nothing still.
The second thing that's achieved is sort of my own theory that others MIGHT share. I believe in the theory of beginners luck but in reefing I strongly believe in the old "Blue Thumb". This is the guy that does all you do or even less. He is lazy to our eyes and laid back but anything he tosses in his tank will grow out of the water. He's the guy you ask everything, you test his water personally when you get a frag from him and his params may be the same as your or even waaaay off the BRS recommends. Then you sit in front of your tank depressed, wondering why your stuff doesn't move and wondering if putting on a cheerleading outfit and doing a jig will get them going. FIGHTING!!!!
But that ain't it. The guy has just earned, somewhere along the line, the blue thumb. He's the professional basketball player that couldn't miss a simple shot even if he just lazy shot it.
Oh and to make it worse, he can start a brand new tank from scratch and still outgrow you. He will though, almost never start a tank with dry rock. He don't care bout no stinkin Negative space Scape. Lol. Give him a wall of age old cycled rock and let him get to work.
Truth #6
When copepod populations naturally boom on your rockwork where you see them running like roaches from crevice to crevice, you are close to some level of maturity. I'll take that even a tad over coralline as a marker for maturity for me. It means that something biological is supporting life at the micro level that corals seem to be able to pick up on.
Truth #7
Enjoy the Lower half of your tank, the first year of BAREBOTTOM, dry rock. There are tones to explore in LPS and Softies until you get to maturity. Barebottoms can be hacked to speed maturity to a point if you have live sand elsewhere whose water feeds directly to your return without too much filtration. Eg, I have live sand from a nearby reef. My sump is built similarly to the IceCap sumps but larger and my would be water reservoir holds sand and rubble with one wall lower than the others so water overflows and the return piped off to feed it, which then overflows back into the return. The sand is deep but the water that feeds it can be turned off in case of emergency.
Truth#7
You don't have enough Coral.
No! Nooooooo! NO!
You don't have enough coral to dose even the lowest amount on the bottle. But I have X gallons! Forget it, you don't have the coral load. But aminos say minimum amount to dose is X. Maybe dose a half that or better yet, leave it alone. My corals look X I need Trace Elements! I'll mix some Tropic Marin into my 2 part. No. No you don't. You need a water change maybe.
Truth #8
Keep your alkalinity between 7.5 and 8.5. I choose 8 personally until I'm mature. Higher Alkalinity drives growth but you don't want growth now. You want things that have lived in the sea for millennia to develop, mature and stabilize in parameters that are more at home to them. After that, you can mess with driving growth.
Truth #9
Fish are the secret to feeding your reef. It's not aminos. Trust me. Aminos are useful if you stripped the water, which you shouldn't, but if your system is mature and stable, and your fish are fat then nutrients aren't a problem as long as they are in a safe range. I'll go further to say that Nitrate and Phosphate concentrations are what we get hung up on but ideally, corals prefer 100% ammonia or was it ammonium? ITS Whatever comes out the fishes gills or pee places. Go ask Randy Holmes Farley or something.
I might eventually touch on lighting but that's even more contentious than Trump.
Did I miss a truth? Share yours.
@revhtree We need a R2R Hall of Fame where we highlight one of the great ones each year and you give them a Trophy. Maybe even livestream it. I nominates Randy Holmes Farley. I'm drinking....leave me alone. Lol
First tank started with live rock at 6 months. No dosing or anything other than regular weekly water changes with nsw. Second started with dry rock at a year. Nuff said. I would never start another tank with dry rock. Its just not the same experience in any wa
The hard truth for me is the more I drink the better my aquarium looksSo after well over a year and putting all the new aged science and techniques to use, I am now on the other side of what feels like tank maturity, where I can speak to Acroporas.
Truth #1
The only benefit to starting with dry rock is to DIY your custom aqua scape. All other reasons are a candle in the wind. Yes you have grand ideas of being pest free etc but that leads me to...
Truth #2
Systems without pests are a unicorn. I don't say they can't exist, I'm just saying that it's more a possibility that persons who claim they don't have pests are either unaware of its existence due to its location or they have an active pest control method employed keeping the numbers low to invisible. The only benefit one could consider to be a half merit is that with a dry rock system, you are the weak link. Eventually, YOU the user will put something into the tank that will lay dormant for ages and then will pop up leaving you wondering "When?"
Truth #3
There is more to tank biology than cycling, seeded media and bottled bacteria. This is the great unknown.
I started with tons of seeded media that was years old, in my sump and a few pieces in my display, I used added bottled bacteria, etc. As a point I'm also barebottom but my sump has an entire 14 x 12x 10 chamber of sand and rubble from a living reef. This helped greatly to get started and I started growing coralline specs in a week but things didn't take off until quite a while later.
Truth #4
Coralline is a good indicator of reef readiness but it is NOT the end all and be all for growing Acros. Some types of acros will live and even grow but there is an unknown biology/chemistry factor that, until this is reached/Obtained/Achieved, will hinder other types of acros from growing. From my personal experience, hardy stags can go in early and I've had luck with Valida as well. Everything else seemed to just stall out or swung back and forth between looking fine today and horrible tomorrow. If you meet a stick that has lived through hell and back it's still only a 50/50 chance of holding on until stability arrives.
Can these odds be improved, YES! But!!....
Truth # 5
Everybody is a master of....absolutely nothing!
We reef keepers get lucky. The successful ones are the those that have achieved two things IMHO. The first being, they have a system. Whether it's a planned system or just a bunch of habits BUT all these do is improve odds. Nothing more. In the end, for all our big talk, we know almost nothing still.
The second thing that's achieved is sort of my own theory that others MIGHT share. I believe in the theory of beginners luck but in reefing I strongly believe in the old "Blue Thumb". This is the guy that does all you do or even less. He is lazy to our eyes and laid back but anything he tosses in his tank will grow out of the water. He's the guy you ask everything, you test his water personally when you get a frag from him and his params may be the same as your or even waaaay off the BRS recommends. Then you sit in front of your tank depressed, wondering why your stuff doesn't move and wondering if putting on a cheerleading outfit and doing a jig will get them going. FIGHTING!!!!
But that ain't it. The guy has just earned, somewhere along the line, the blue thumb. He's the professional basketball player that couldn't miss a simple shot even if he just lazy shot it.
Oh and to make it worse, he can start a brand new tank from scratch and still outgrow you. He will though, almost never start a tank with dry rock. He don't care bout no stinkin Negative space Scape. Lol. Give him a wall of age old cycled rock and let him get to work.
Truth #6
When copepod populations naturally boom on your rockwork where you see them running like roaches from crevice to crevice, you are close to some level of maturity. I'll take that even a tad over coralline as a marker for maturity for me. It means that something biological is supporting life at the micro level that corals seem to be able to pick up on.
Truth #7
Enjoy the Lower half of your tank, the first year of BAREBOTTOM, dry rock. There are tones to explore in LPS and Softies until you get to maturity. Barebottoms can be hacked to speed maturity to a point if you have live sand elsewhere whose water feeds directly to your return without too much filtration. Eg, I have live sand from a nearby reef. My sump is built similarly to the IceCap sumps but larger and my would be water reservoir holds sand and rubble with one wall lower than the others so water overflows and the return piped off to feed it, which then overflows back into the return. The sand is deep but the water that feeds it can be turned off in case of emergency.
Truth#7
You don't have enough Coral.
No! Nooooooo! NO!
You don't have enough coral to dose even the lowest amount on the bottle. But I have X gallons! Forget it, you don't have the coral load. But aminos say minimum amount to dose is X. Maybe dose a half that or better yet, leave it alone. My corals look X I need Trace Elements! I'll mix some Tropic Marin into my 2 part. No. No you don't. You need a water change maybe.
Truth #8
Keep your alkalinity between 7.5 and 8.5. I choose 8 personally until I'm mature. Higher Alkalinity drives growth but you don't want growth now. You want things that have lived in the sea for millennia to develop, mature and stabilize in parameters that are more at home to them. After that, you can mess with driving growth.
Truth #9
Fish are the secret to feeding your reef. It's not aminos. Trust me. Aminos are useful if you stripped the water, which you shouldn't, but if your system is mature and stable, and your fish are fat then nutrients aren't a problem as long as they are in a safe range. I'll go further to say that Nitrate and Phosphate concentrations are what we get hung up on but ideally, corals prefer 100% ammonia or was it ammonium? ITS Whatever comes out the fishes gills or pee places. Go ask Randy Holmes Farley or something.
I might eventually touch on lighting but that's even more contentious than Trump.
Did I miss a truth? Share yours.
@revhtree We need a R2R Hall of Fame where we highlight one of the great ones each year and you give them a Trophy. Maybe even livestream it. I nominates Randy Holmes Farley. I'm drinking....leave me alone. Lol
I'm loving this! Lol. Brut Faberge. You know you're using chic repellant when your cologne foubles as an aftershave. Lol. I'm 100% guilty of this but please don't lump me into that category....I'm a Givenchy Pi kinda guy. LolHahahaha, get it out, man!! I’m another “90’s reefer” (1996, to be exact). I’ve always been fascinated by the absolute over-complication that plagues the hobby. Everybody has their ups and downs, and everybody has lost livestock - if they’ve been in the hobby for a while… some in the first day, right?! In my 24 reefing years (25 next month), I’ve always held close to me another “hard truth” that so many people seem to forget to mention:
“KEEP YOUR FILTHY HANDS AND DISGUSTINGLY HAIRY FOREARMS OUT OF THE TANK”. Seriously. Don’t let your skin contact the water. There are instant chemical reactions, no wonder how clean of a person you *think* you are. Get shoulder-length rubber gloves and soak them overnight in vinegar after you’ve handled them with your oily, repulsive hands. Go months without putting your hands in there. It horrifies your fish when you do it and poisons your animals. Imagine how you’d feel being locked in a closed system with your great uncles Brut Faberge aftershave or whatever. You’d wanna die. Your fish associate your presence with eating, but they otherwise loathe everything about you.
Mix up water with “seawater” parameters and then don’t touch it. Your corals with then “grow out of the water” like you said. Every time you enter the environment, consider that 100 steps backward. Avoid it.
So the question for me is as I begin my new 130 gallon FOWLR tank does dry or live really matter?I think that maybe eventually we will find out how to hack tank maturity and inoculate/bottle it. Some say it's the micro biome and this is most likely true but I'd like to know exactly how the corals know this is present or not?
Is there a bacterial or microbial/genetic marker present in the water of a mature reef? I'm not convinced it's the rock itself completely as Acros are grown on string in the ocean.
Down the rabbit hole we go...
Any ideas Masters? @ReefSquad @Mike Paletta
I think the closer we get to understanding the biome, is the closer we will get to speeding tank maturity. I was on a live stream of @ReefBum last night and we had a great time with Mike Paletta. I asked a question but due to the limits of the chat, it was misinterpreted but I still wonder if there is something we are missing, like a chemical marker that tells corals that the tank is mature and they have permission to grow.@Maximitsurugi good post. I’ve been saying this for years about dry rock set ups. They’re not impossible but they have many flaws. Draw a Venn diagram with dry and live rock and one can pick the good and bad. Personally, if I were to do an SPS system, I’d go with live rock. Live rock itself is a broad term though. Defining what true live rock is will be another discussion. I like to refer to some live rock as simply established rock.
Yes!! Established rock and “live rock” are like the two iterations of Van Halen… very different, one definitely preferable to the other, but you’ll take either in a pinch.@Maximitsurugi good post. I’ve been saying this for years about dry rock set ups. They’re not impossible but they have many flaws. Draw a Venn diagram with dry and live rock and one can pick the good and bad. Personally, if I were to do an SPS system, I’d go with live rock. Live rock itself is a broad term though. Defining what true live rock is will be another discussion. I like to refer to some live rock as simply established rock.