my fish died

[vetteguy53081]

I test my water with strips in a new tank every other day, and once a week I take a water sample to one of our local aquarium stores for further testing, once the tank has matured I test the water at home the day of and the day after a water change and once a month at the fish store. I do a 10% water change in all 5 of my tanks at least every other week, reason for this is I don't run protein skimmers so I do the water changes.

the water was cycling for three weeks before I added the first two fish which were the two clowns, I had the two clowns for over a year in a 32 gallon bio cube where my parameters matched. and then 3 days later added the damsel.

I typically don't put a time frame as to how long I cycle the tank before adding fish I add them after the first algae and when ammonia reaches 0 and nitrite reaches 0-1.

When I say fish were acting strange the damsel was out with the lights off swimming crooked and the clown was out swimming across the bottom of the tank.

May be low dissolved oxygen, or spikes in water chemistry.
Test strips are perhaps the worse indicator of water chemistry and I wonder if tank was even properly cycled. Algae does not indicate a tank is cycled and I will never rely on $7 strips to sustain any livestock. Nitrite has no significance unless sky high and will not indicate again- a cycled tank.
You need better kits and also will want to take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at. what is the store testing water with ?

 

[Ralph823]

But to get these test results you’re trusting either api test strips or a lfs to provide their “accurate” results ?
Most lfs also use api which are unreliable imo

My lfs has been in the business for over 40 years with the same owner, ive been going to that store since before ican walk and not once have i seen them use strips

May be low dissolved oxygen, or spikes in water chemistry.
Test strips are perhaps the worse indicator of water chemistry and I wonder if tank was even properly cycled. Algae does not indicate a tank is cycled and I will never rely on $7 strips to sustain any livestock. Nitrite has no significance unless sky high and will not indicate again- a cycled tank.
You need better kits and also will want to take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at. what is the store testing water with ?

thats what I do, my local store tests my water before fish move in and they do not use API or strips I take them to Exotic aquariums in Miami

 

[vetteguy53081]

My lfs has been in the business for over 40 years with the same owner, ive been going to that store since before ican walk and not once have i seen them use strips

thats what I do, my local store tests my water before fish move in and they do not use API or strips I take them to Exotic aquariums in Miami

Is it by chance Spin Test? I too have been doing this 40 years and owned an LFS and know most will use cheaper kits to reduce costs - I get it. He's been doing this 40 years and cant give you an answer to what is happening?
You have dead fish which cannot indicate what truly occurred and its most certain its water or disease and hard to pinpoint with no pics or additional data.
Did the dead fish when found have their mouths open like below?

 

[Rmckoy]

Is it by chance Spin Test? I too have been doing this 40 years and owned an LFS and know most will use cheaper kits to reduce costs - I get it. He's been doing this 40 years and cant give you an answer to what is happening?
You have dead fish which cannot indicate what truly occurred and its most certain its water or disease and hard to pinpoint with no pics or additional data.
Did the dead fish when found have their mouths open like below?

That looks like one that ended up on my grill last summer

 

[Rmckoy]

My lfs has been in the business for over 40 years with the same owner, ive been going to that store since before ican walk and not once have i seen them use strips

thats what I do, my local store tests my water before fish move in and they do not use API or strips I take them to Exotic aquariums in Miami

Again … it’s your tank .
I know if if was my tank and fish I wouldn’t invest money into a tank and use test strips or rely on my lfs to test my water for me .
I will also say things happen such as fish loss . But in a new system . It’s either water quality or disease .
This same lfs can you trust his fish are quarantined and did not come with disease ?
40+ years I would guess he has only the best snd disease free livestock

 

[Ralph823]

But to get these test results you’re trusting either api test strips or a lfs to provide their “accurate” results ?
Most lfs also use api which are unreliable imo

My lfs has been in the business for over 40 years with the same owner, ive been going to that store since I was a kid, ive never seen them use API or strips

 

[Rmckoy]

My lfs has been in the business for over 40 years with the same owner, ive been going to that store since I was a kid, ive never seen them use API or strips

The only reason I mention strips I thought I read at the start you said you used strips ?

 

[Ralph823]

That looks like one that ended up on my grill last summer

no they were just dead

 

[j.falk]

Possible contamination of a chemical natural...that will wipe out a tank quick. What did you mix/store your water change water in? Aerosal sprays, hand soaps and dish detergents will wipe out an entire tank with a quickness.

 

[Ralph823]

Again … it’s your tank .
I know if if was my tank and fish I wouldn’t invest money into a tank and use test strips or rely on my lfs to test my water for me .
I will also say things happen such as fish loss . But in a new system . It’s either water quality or disease .
This same lfs can you trust his fish are quarantined and did not come with disease ?
40+ years I would guess he has only the best snd disease free livestock

I quarantine all fish before they go into a tank regardless where they come from, I've had tanks all my life, fish only tanks and reef tanks, I currently have 5 oldest one is currently 10 years old, have done water changes the same way, cycled a tank the same way, introduced fish the same way, acclimated fish and corals the same way, and quarantined fish the same was on all tanks and the same lfs has been testing my water my entire time in the hobby and has been testing my parents tanks for 35 years as well. not once have I had an issue like this, all corals and live rocks are dipped before introducing them to a tank; furthermore, as previously mentioned these fish had been in my possession for over a year, so blaming the possibility of buying a sick fish from this LFS isn't really relative. this lfs does not test with API or any test strips, in fact they don't even carry API on their shelves.

Possible contamination of a chemical natural...that will wipe out a tank quick. What did you mix/store your water change water in? Aerosal sprays, hand soaps and dish detergents will wipe out an entire tank with a quickness.

I mix water in 5 gallon feed buckets ( perks of having horses is we have a lot of buckets ) I clean them with water and a little bit of white vinegar and then flush them out

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I quarantine all fish before they go into a tank regardless where they come from, I've had tanks all my life, fish only tanks and reef tanks, I currently have 5 oldest one is currently 10 years old, have done water changes the same way, cycled a tank the same way, introduced fish the same way, acclimated fish and corals the same way, and quarantined fish the same was on all tanks and the same lfs has been testing my water my entire time in the hobby and has been testing my parents tanks for 35 years as well. not once have I had an issue like this, all corals and live rocks are dipped before introducing them to a tank; furthermore, as previously mentioned these fish had been in my possession for over a year, so blaming the possibility of buying a sick fish from this LFS isn't really relative. this lfs does not test with API or any test strips, in fact they don't even carry API on their shelves.

I mix water in 5 gallon feed buckets ( perks of having horses is we have a lot of buckets ) I clean them with water and a little bit of white vinegar and then flush them out

You seem to be dismissing every suggestion/idea about why your fish died.

 

[Ralph823]

You seem to be dismissing every suggestion/idea about why your fish died.

It's not that I'm dismissing every suggestion, on the contrary they make me think back and see what I've done wrong so here's the list I have and an explanation to why its not it.

- buying sick fish - the fish that died were in a separate tank in my house for over a year.

- contaminated live rock - I think this could be it because of the large crab I found but am not certain, as far as disease on rock, all rock gets dipped in high salinity for 5 minutes and then in freshwater for 2 minutes before entering tank.

- Using Zephyrhills water - although I understand the concern and after reading all this I ordered an RO/DI system I've been using the same Zephyrhills purified water that gets delivered to my house every month for ten years and never had an issue with fish or corals.

- Bad water - I test my water at home regularly and get it tested at the lfs weekly ( they do not use API nor do they use strips )

I'm open to any Idea and have entertained them all; however, if an idea given to me doesn't make sense because I have a legitimate way to dismiss it, it's only logical to continue looking for new ideas.

as everyone here knows saltwater fish can get expensive so it is reasonable of me to keep digging until I find a cause that makes sense.

 

[exnisstech]

Just throwing this out there. Maybe I missed it but how do you measure salinity. In an earlier post I thought you (the OP) said you added the correct amount of salt mix. If I use the correct amount of instant ocean recommended by the manufacturer salinity is very low. 1 cup to 1 gallon of water but I have to use 32 cups to get 27 gallons at 2.025

 

[Tired]

Dipping live rock won't remove the possibility of disease- it just wrecks the bacteria and life on the surface layer, without touching anything that's really deep in the rock. That said, disease on ocean live rock is pretty unlikely.

There are many forms of water contamination that test kits won't measure, and also test strips are very inaccurate. Fish dying immediately after a water change suggests something is wrong with the water.

 

[Ralph823]

Just throwing this out there. Maybe I missed it but how do you measure salinity. In an earlier post I thought you (the OP) said you added the correct amount of salt mix. If I use the correct amount of instant ocean recommended by the manufacturer salinity is very low. 1 cup to 1 gallon of water but I have to use 32 cups to get 27 gallons at 2.025

I keep my water at - 1.024 sometimes slightly higher 1.026 or as low as 1.023 but I like to stay in the 1.024-1.026 range, instant ocean is 1/2 a cup for every US gallon and that will bring salinity way above where I keep it about 1.028ish, so I either dose just under 1/2 a cup of instant ocean or I'll add a cup of fresh water at a time until I get the desired salinity. I then test with a refractometer and keep a hydrometer in the tank at all times stuck to the wall "even tho hydrometers are less accurate it gives me an estimate of my tanks salinity daily. I soak my hydrometer in white vinegar weekly to ensure that it stays clean and reliable.

 

[Ralph823]

Dipping live rock won't remove the possibility of disease- it just wrecks the bacteria and life on the surface layer, without touching anything that's really deep in the rock. That said, disease on ocean live rock is pretty unlikely.

There are many forms of water contamination that test kits won't measure, and also test strips are very inaccurate. Fish dying immediately after a water change suggests something is wrong with the water.

my question then is, shouldn't all or at least more of the fish have been affected if it was the water? I easily have over 60 fish between all tanks and all the same batch of water was used for all tanks and only two were killed.

 

[j.falk]

the same batch of water was used for all tanks and only two were killed.

Now that bit of information piques my interest. Something significant happened only to the tank with the clowns then. Disease wouldn't kill them that fast. It would have to be something significant that changed with the water.

 

[Ralph823]

Now that bit of information piques my interest. Something significant happened only to the tank with the clowns then. Disease wouldn't kill them that fast. It would have to be something significant that changed with the water.

that's where I'm stumped, my only explanation is that dang crab, but everyone one here seems to disagree that the crab was the cause so I guess I'm just waiting until another reasonable explanation comes up, I assume if it was that batch of water something more sensitive in another tank would've died also like my seahorses or my mandarins. which I keep together in a 32 bio cube.

 

[j.falk]

that's where I'm stumped, my only explanation is that dang crab, but everyone one here seems to disagree that the crab was the cause so I guess I'm just waiting until another reasonable explanation comes up, I assume if it was that batch of water something more sensitive in another tank would've died also like my seahorses or my mandarins. which I keep together in a 32 bio cube.

If it was the water, the crab more than likely would have died too. I mean it is possible that it could've been the crab but they usually grab one thing at a time and then scurry back into the rocks to devour it. I've never seen one go on a killing spree.

 

[blecki]

but everyone one here seems to disagree that the crab was the cause so I guess I'm just waiting until another reasonable explanation comes up,

I think it's easy to dismiss the crab if the fish did not have injuries at the time of death; and since you presumably disposed of them we only have your own observations to go on and you didn't mention any physical damage it seems like it wasn't the crab. Since the crab is also gone there's no way now to ID it and see if it's a known fish-killing species.