Need acro help, browning out!

[Epic Aquaculture]

Thanks, yes I was referring to the UV sterilizer. Appreciate the feedback, all.

The UV sterilizer won't affect color on your Acros so that's one thing not to worry about.

 

[Scdell]

No Vibrant or Nopox currently. What do you have in mind? I do also run a small fuge to help keep nutes down.

So do you target NSW entirely? I've been deliberately targeting 8 for Alk, and tanks seems to have stabilized at it without too much resistance.

I don't plan to do all those things I mentioned at once. I'm starting first with the lighting/PAR, and will take all other ideas/experiments one at a time from there.

I used Vibrant to control a GHA outbreak. It caused my #s to go ULN and browning my corals. My tank just does better with ALK around 7.

 

[Reefltx]

If your acros are brown, why are you using aminos?

You are doing daily water changes, why are you dosing trace elements?

It could be lighting related, but we don’t know without some par numbers.


I’ll just go back to basics at this point.

 

[Jax15]

If your acros are brown, why are you using aminos?

You are doing daily water changes, why are you dosing trace elements?

It could be lighting related, but we don’t know without some par numbers.


I’ll just go back to basics at this point.

That's actually a good point, the aminos are definitely not helping and things seemed only to continue on a downward trend while dosing. Lot's of positive testimony out there for acropower, and it's biggest claim is to improve colors.. so I guess I figured it could help. I mean if not used to improve color/growth, then why use at all? But it might actually be doing the opposite. Couldn't hurt to suspend for a while.

I dose super small amounts of trace. The math on water changes can still put you behind on trace %'s over enough time depending on your uptake. I've had success with RS coral colors in the past on top of water changes.

Lighting seems the most obvious culprit, but ya it's hard to know without readings. I'll post them on Tues when I get my meter.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Yea aminos are only going to help corals that are in low nutrients conditions or that are coming back from being bleached or damaged. Brown corals in higher nutrient tanks probably won’t benefit much at all from aminos. Even when I get my systems down to low nutrients I don’t see much difference while using aminos. But each tanks different and I feed pretty well in each tank I have had.

 

[Jax15]

I turned off the aminos. I looked at a pic from my tank only 1-2 months ago.. what a difference! I still wonder what the heck is going on. Steady dosing of aminos was really the only thing that changed, now that ya'll have helped me realize it. Hopefully things will return to their former glory now that I turned it off, I'll keep people posted on any results I see/don't see.

 

[Scdell]

I turned off the aminos. I looked at a pic from my tank only 1-2 months ago.. what a difference! I still wonder what the heck is going on. Steady dosing of aminos was really the only thing that changed, now that ya'll have helped me realize it. Hopefully things will return to their former glory now that I turned it off, I'll keep people posted on any results I see/don't see.

I seriously doubt that's your issue. Amino acids will be taken out with a protein skimmer. Something has changed that you need to figure out.

 

[Uncle99]

Use real caution with the Red Sea Colors Stuff.
I had a hard time understanding amount of daily dosage requirements and I know the exact daily dose of CA which the dose is based on.

I discontinued after 3 months when my corals started to die.
30% water change and not used again. Lost some Acros, some Monti, and the skin fell off two Scolys.
No further deaths in years now.

 

[Scdell]

Use real caution with the Red Sea Colors Stuff.
I had a hard time understanding amount of daily dosage requirements and I know the exact daily dose of CA which the dose is based on.

I discontinued after 3 months when my corals started to die.
30% water change and not used again. Lost some Acros, some Monti, and the skin fell off two Scolys.
No further deaths in years now.

Yes, that stuff is confusing as hell. I'm using a calcium reactor and have no idea how much CA I'm using. Having good luck with reef energy though.

 

[Uncle99]

Yup, the energy is good, I use much of the REd Sea line of products.
In the end, I got the best color and growth by:
- providing correct light in terms of diffusing, spectrum, and intensity.
- making sure all trace elements are on point through water changes.
- high stability in water chemistry.

And the most important one.......stop touching things...

 

[Jax15]

Ya aminos don’t seem a likely culprit, but the timing does coincide. With the AWC there’s no harm in discontinuing for a while. The other thing I changed a few months back was adding a third a360X and spacing the LEDs a bit more. I turned them all down a few % when doing so to compensate for the added intensity... but it could be a factor. The par meter should be telling. I decided to make one more simultaneous change (trying to minimize the changes at once, but think this is a good idea). I’m going to slowly lower my SG just a teeny touch. I’ll do it via 1.5% daily water change so it’ll be slow. But I think it’s ticked up a little over time, and want to eventually get back to 1.0255. I’ve had better results there in past tanks (I’m close to 1.0265 now. I know people are going to push back on this. I just have a feeling).

I’ve been super hands off the tank to let it stabilize. It hasn’t been helping, time to be proactive with some troubleshooting. I’ll send a before/current photo later tonight.

 

[Scdell]

QUOTE="Jax15, post: 7233145, member: 94907"]
Ya aminos don’t seem a likely culprit, but the timing does coincide. With the AWC there’s no harm in discontinuing for a while. The other thing I changed a few months back was adding a third a360X and spacing the LEDs a bit more. I turned them all down a few % when doing so to compensate for the added intensity... but it could be a factor. The par meter should be telling. I decided to make one more simultaneous change (trying to minimize the changes at once, but think this is a good idea). I’m going to slowly lower my SG just a teeny touch. I’ll do it via 1.5% daily water change so it’ll be slow. But I think it’s ticked up a little over time, and want to eventually get back to 1.0255. I’ve had better results there in past tanks (I’m close to 1.0265 now. I know people are going to push back on this. I just have a feeling).

I’ve been super hands off the tank to let it stabilize. It hasn’t been helping, time to be proactive with some troubleshooting. I’ll send a before/current photo later tonight.
[/QUOTE] I think you'll be surprised with your PAR numbers. They'll probably come out lower than you think.

 

[Jax15]

[/QUOTE] I think you'll be surprised with your PAR numbers. They'll probably come out lower than you think.
[/QUOTE] Thanks ya I’m really looking forward to getting some real data points on this.
Had some sps go into RTN today. Not STN.. It was straight, huh what is that? To just vapor in a day. Luckily some of my nicer frags like WD and Pink Caddy seem to be hanging in for now while I get this resolved. I’m going to drop an ICP in the mail also. Things were going super well for a long while, it does not compute. Ive done what I can with the tools I have...need more data.

I’ll keep people updated, I know some folks are following this who have similar concerns.

 

[Jax15]

Hey folks -- well, I have some not-so-great news. Everything seems exactly where it should be! I did a full battery of tests, including PAR, and here's what I found:

• Alk - 8.2
• Ca - 440
• Mg - 1320
• Na - 7ppm
• Po - 0.02
• Temp: 78-79, averaged from two separate thermometers
• Salinity: 1.0265 if you believe my Apex, 1.025 if you believe my refractometer (inclined to believe the latter).

^NO issues I can tell. And these #'s have been highly stable for at least 6 months!

PAR: I posted my notes, but I'll give you the short version. Acro's tend to be anywhere from 190-330, with the majority catching around 260 PAR for a 5 hour photoperiod.* They then get an average of 120 for an additional 3-5 hours. Since I had the meter, I tested adding Kessil narrow reflectors, and/or cranking up the LEDs. My system can top out at a 340 average, with hot zones up to 500+ PAR.

*I also tested with typical flow on, to see what their actual reading is, not just with zero flow. That's what these numbers reflect.

I'm at a loss. The only thing left to do is send an ICP and look for atypical problems. In the meantime I did what made sense.... cleaned all pumps, increased the daily AWC volume, and turned down the doser to account for slower growth (dang it).

I'd appreciate any reactions to the readings, ideas, or comments. I'm def not a noob, though admittedly limited exp with Acro's. At this point I'm prob going to just give the tank a few months to chill before trying to add new livestock.

 

[Scdell]

I think your Phosphate is to low for that high of an Alk. Feed more and lower your Alk.

 

[Jax15]

I think your Phosphate is to low for that high of an Alk. Feed more and lower your Alk.

Interesting. Okay I'll up the feeding and slowly tune the Alk/Ca down a few points.

Curious, is the logic there that the higher rate of growth resulting from the elevated alk/ca would also require more phosphate to support the coral's bio processes? Or more just anecdotal from your experience/trial and error?

 

[Scdell]

Experience. I used Vibrant to control a GHA outbreak. It caused Phosphate to almost zero. A lot of Sps browned out from that. How many fish in the tank?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Brown means stressed and starving. They need more fish poop. How many fish do you have?

 

[Jax15]

I see.. I have 7 fish total — 2 tangs, 2 chromis, clown, dottyback, angelfish. Algae hasn’t been a problem, have a pretty solid CUC assembled and plus the nutrients are obviously on the low end. I’ve been slowly building up my export program, with the goal of eventually running heavy nutes in, heavy out. That’s been the plan anyway.

 

[homer1475]

Experience. I used Vibrant to control a GHA outbreak. It caused Phosphate to almost zero. A lot of Sps browned out from that. How many fish in the tank?

Seriously wish I had taken pics of my green slimer! It literally went from a vibrant green, to a dull brown overnight. Literally overnight!

Cause was PO4 dropping below .05 from dosing vibrant. Continue with vibrant, but feed my fish a little more to keep PO4 up. Once my PO4 came back up, the slimer took a few weeks, but is back to it's vibrant green color.