Nitrates, Phosphates in preparation for Corals.

[GucciYoni]

Hey everyone, I know this is a noobish question, but an answer would help heaps.

Regarding my 240L Aquarium with a top filter (spray bar), running activated carbon (now expired), heater, 2 Aquael pumps each 2500L/hr. The tank is about 6 weeks old, has about 21kg of live rock, two Ocellaris, and two damsels. I have a mantis a couple of snails, a couple of hermits, a mollusc and some other inverts too. I should add that I don't use a protein skimmer (Gasp!), I enjoy water changes, and no sump either!

I aim to create a beautiful reef tank with Soft and LPS corals, with LPS being my absolute favorites! Now I'm aware that LPS requires a mature, established tank, so I plan to start with softies. Last week upon visiting my LFS, my nutrients were as follows:

Nitrate 25ppm
Phosphates: 0.5mg
Alkalinity: 8.4dkh
Calcium: 330ppm
Magnesium: 960ppm
Salt: 1.022

Let's get to the crux of this post. My tank is currently going through a diatom bloom, and it seems to have been getting better with big reduction in lighting, frequent water changes (NSW), and my hardy trochus team :) HOWEVER...

These numbers clearly don't amount to a very successful coral reef do they? I have already begun dosing Red Sea Calcium and Magnesium to reach required levels. My phosphate and nitrates are clearly too high for a sustainable coral reef. What should I do?! I do water changes, about 40L at a time at most, I don't think I overfeed.. I will be slowly upgrading clean up crew as well. Have thought of using Poly-Filter or GFO in a filter bag and chucking it in the top filter but that wont address the root of the problem. Any advice would be appreciated cause I really would love to see these gross algae disappear and be able to sustain a coral reef!

Regards, GY

 

[Mikey Mane The Flare]

Hey everyone, I know this is a noobish question, but an answer would help heaps.

Regarding my 240L Aquarium with a top filter (spray bar), running activated carbon (now expired), heater, 2 Aquael pumps each 2500L/hr. The tank is about 6 weeks old, has about 21kg of live rock, two Ocellaris, and two damsels. I have a mantis a couple of snails, a couple of hermits, a mollusc and some other inverts too. I should add that I don't use a protein skimmer (Gasp!), I enjoy water changes, and no sump either!

I aim to create a beautiful reef tank with Soft and LPS corals, with LPS being my absolute favorites! Now I'm aware that LPS requires a mature, established tank, so I plan to start with softies. Last week upon visiting my LFS, my nutrients were as follows:

Nitrate 25ppm
Phosphates: 0.5mg
Alkalinity: 8.4dkh
Calcium: 330ppm
Magnesium: 960ppm
Salt: 1.022

Let's get to the crux of this post. My tank is currently going through a diatom bloom, and it seems to have been getting better with big reduction in lighting, frequent water changes (NSW), and my hardy trochus team :) HOWEVER...

These numbers clearly don't amount to a very successful coral reef do they? I have already begun dosing Red Sea Calcium and Magnesium to reach required levels. My phosphate and nitrates are clearly too high for a sustainable coral reef. What should I do?! I do water changes, about 40L at a time at most, I don't think I overfeed.. I will be slowly upgrading clean up crew as well. Have thought of using Poly-Filter or GFO in a filter bag and chucking it in the top filter but that wont address the root of the problem. Any advice would be appreciated cause I really would love to see these gross algae disappear and be able to sustain a coral reef!

Regards, GY

Need to get some type of phosban pho/nitrate remover. Or media reactor with gfo. Also Iv never used redsea cal and mag. Is it one part(both mixed) or two separate bottles? I use a product called A and B. Once you get one or the other to the right level you shouldn’t dose for it any more. You need to bump up that cal to 480, 500.

I was also like you at one point with the no skimmer cause I do weekly water changes (10 gallons in my 55g weekly) and always had problems in my levels. Get a skimmer it will help a lot. I’m also sumpless so I use a hang on back reef octopus 2000. It’s rated for 200g tank I believe but it leaves my 55 crystal clear:).

My weekly water changes 10g to my 55g keep my cal/mag/other trace elements perfect to where I never have to dose witch is what you want.

 

[GucciYoni]

Need to get some type of phosban pho/nitrate remover. Or media reactor with gfo. Also Iv never used redsea cal and mag. Is it one part(both mixed) or two separate bottles? I use a product called A and B. Once you get one or the other to the right level you shouldn’t dose for it any more. You need to bump up that cal to 480, 500.

I was also like you at one point with the no skimmer cause I do weekly water changes (10 gallons in my 55g weekly) and always had problems in my levels. Get a skimmer it will help a lot. I’m also sumpless so I use a hang on back reef octopus 2000. It’s rated for 200g tank I believe but it leaves my 55 crystal clear:).

My weekly water changes 10g to my 55g keep my cal/mag/other trace elements perfect to where I never have to dose witch is what you want.

Not too keen on Media reactor, I can however use GFO in a filter bag?! + my tank has a hood and cover so where could I hang the reef octopus?

 

[GucciYoni]

And the red sea is two separate tubs. One of them being Calc, and the other Mg.

 

[Mikey Mane The Flare]

Pop

Not too keen on Media reactor, I can however use GFO in a filter bag?! + my tank has a hood and cover so where could I hang the reef octopus?

out a spot with a jigsaw lol! They have many intank skimmers also. If I were to recommend a HOB it would be reef octopus it’s the only one iv used with good results

 

[sheepdog76]

I would suggest getting a skimmer it will help out in the end goal of keeping your tank stable. Still do those water changes using RODI water I’m hoping if not that could be a source of your phosphate.I use two part with a dosing machine.I also prefer chemipure over other brands of active carbon. I keep my numbers as follows
Cal480
Mag1300
Nitrates<10 normally at 0
Nitrite0
Ammonia 0
Phosphates 0
Temp83
Ph8.1
Salinity 1.026

 

[EmdeReef]

Hey everyone, I know this is a noobish question, but an answer would help heaps.

Regarding my 240L Aquarium with a top filter (spray bar), running activated carbon (now expired), heater, 2 Aquael pumps each 2500L/hr. The tank is about 6 weeks old, has about 21kg of live rock, two Ocellaris, and two damsels. I have a mantis a couple of snails, a couple of hermits, a mollusc and some other inverts too. I should add that I don't use a protein skimmer (Gasp!), I enjoy water changes, and no sump either!

I aim to create a beautiful reef tank with Soft and LPS corals, with LPS being my absolute favorites! Now I'm aware that LPS requires a mature, established tank, so I plan to start with softies. Last week upon visiting my LFS, my nutrients were as follows:

Nitrate 25ppm
Phosphates: 0.5mg
Alkalinity: 8.4dkh
Calcium: 330ppm
Magnesium: 960ppm
Salt: 1.022

Let's get to the crux of this post. My tank is currently going through a diatom bloom, and it seems to have been getting better with big reduction in lighting, frequent water changes (NSW), and my hardy trochus team :) HOWEVER...

These numbers clearly don't amount to a very successful coral reef do they? I have already begun dosing Red Sea Calcium and Magnesium to reach required levels. My phosphate and nitrates are clearly too high for a sustainable coral reef. What should I do?! I do water changes, about 40L at a time at most, I don't think I overfeed.. I will be slowly upgrading clean up crew as well. Have thought of using Poly-Filter or GFO in a filter bag and chucking it in the top filter but that wont address the root of the problem. Any advice would be appreciated cause I really would love to see these gross algae disappear and be able to sustain a coral reef!

Regards, GY

I think your nitrate and phosphate assuming that’s 0.5ppm? Are fine for softies and lps which generally like “dirtier” water. May want to bring your salinity up or if you are using NSW perhaps calibrate your refractometer.

 

[Vaughn17]

I had three skimmerless, sumpless tanks for four years, no crashes, and grew large sps colonies. However, I've been using skimmers for the past year and have to admit that corals, IME, seem to thrive more consistently in skimmed water. The skimmer keeps the water clearer. The money you save on salt will pay for one.

Your softies and lps will love your nutrient levels and should lower them over time. Be aware that happy, growing corals are notorious for sucking NO3 and PO4 out of a tank, and if that happens you will need to feed heavier or dose nutrients (IME).

 

[Mikey Mane The Flare]

I would suggest getting a skimmer it will help out in the end goal of keeping your tank stable. Still do those water changes using RODI water I’m hoping if not that could be a source of your phosphate.I use two part with a dosing machine.I also prefer chemipure over other brands of active carbon. I keep my numbers as follows
Cal480
Mag1300
Nitrates<10 normally at 0
Nitrite0
Ammonia 0
Phosphates 0
Temp83
Ph8.1
Salinity 1.026

83 degrees risky isn’t it?

 

[Mikey Mane The Flare]

I had three skimmerless, sumpless tanks for four years, no crashes, and grew large sps colonies. However, I've been using skimmers for the past year and have to admit that corals, IME, seem to thrive more consistently in skimmed water. The skimmer keeps the water clearer. The money you save on salt will pay for one.

Your softies and lps will love your nutrient levels and should lower them over time. Be aware that happy, growing corals are notorious for sucking NO3 and PO4 out of a tank, and if that happens you will need to feed heavier or dose nutrients (IME).

Once you own a good skimmer and you see what it pulls out of the water it’s like ok.... should of got one along time ago!

If you do get one don’t feel bad if it doesn’t work right away my skimmer took about a month and a half befor it “broke in”

 

[sheepdog76]

83 degrees risky isn’t it?

I have been doing it for years since I read a lot about natural reefs. Use to keep mine at around 78-80 then after reading about natural reefs and the temps are around 82. Found that a temp between 82-84 is more ideal for reef tanks the the common 76-78. I try and make my tank as close to natural as I can. Since doing so my growth has seemingly been a bit faster. Corals and fish both love it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey everyone, I know this is a noobish question, but an answer would help heaps.

Regarding my 240L Aquarium with a top filter (spray bar), running activated carbon (now expired), heater, 2 Aquael pumps each 2500L/hr. The tank is about 6 weeks old, has about 21kg of live rock, two Ocellaris, and two damsels. I have a mantis a couple of snails, a couple of hermits, a mollusc and some other inverts too. I should add that I don't use a protein skimmer (Gasp!), I enjoy water changes, and no sump either!

I aim to create a beautiful reef tank with Soft and LPS corals, with LPS being my absolute favorites! Now I'm aware that LPS requires a mature, established tank, so I plan to start with softies. Last week upon visiting my LFS, my nutrients were as follows:

Nitrate 25ppm
Phosphates: 0.5mg
Alkalinity: 8.4dkh
Calcium: 330ppm
Magnesium: 960ppm
Salt: 1.022

Let's get to the crux of this post. My tank is currently going through a diatom bloom, and it seems to have been getting better with big reduction in lighting, frequent water changes (NSW), and my hardy trochus team :) HOWEVER...

These numbers clearly don't amount to a very successful coral reef do they? I have already begun dosing Red Sea Calcium and Magnesium to reach required levels. My phosphate and nitrates are clearly too high for a sustainable coral reef. What should I do?! I do water changes, about 40L at a time at most, I don't think I overfeed.. I will be slowly upgrading clean up crew as well. Have thought of using Poly-Filter or GFO in a filter bag and chucking it in the top filter but that wont address the root of the problem. Any advice would be appreciated cause I really would love to see these gross algae disappear and be able to sustain a coral reef!

Regards, GY

The nitrate and phosphate values likely won't hurt corals, but may well result in an algae problem and I'd look to lower them.

Stop dosing and raise the salinity to 1.0264. it will boost those low calcium and magnesium values.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have been doing it for years since I read a lot about natural reefs. Use to keep mine at around 78-80 then after reading about natural reefs and the temps are around 82. Found that a temp between 82-84 is more ideal for reef tanks the the common 76-78. I try and make my tank as close to natural as I can. Since doing so my growth has seemingly been a bit faster. Corals and fish both love it.

One concern of keeping a tank that high is that it gives you much less buffer in case of emergency such as a power failure when it is hot. IMO, 80 deg F is a happy compromise between the various factors. :)

 

[sheepdog76]

One concern of keeping a tank that high is that it gives you much less buffer in case of emergency such as a power failure when it is hot. IMO, 80 deg F is a happy compromise between the various factors. :)

I would agree in most cases but I have a fail safe set up with Tesla power grid system that can run my entire house for almost 2 wks if power goes out. So with that said I feel good about the power issue.The 83 is in my sump area the display normally ranges out at 81-82. Have had it that way for many years with no issue . In fact I have found in my situation I have much less algae issues and better growth not contributing it all to the temp but it was a turning point for me.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would agree in most cases but I have a fail safe set up with Tesla power grid system that can run my entire house for almost 2 wks if power goes out. So with that said I feel good about the power issue.The 83 is in my sump area the display normally ranges out at 81-82. Have had it that way for many years with no issue . In fact I have found in my situation I have much less algae issues and better growth not contributing it all to the temp but it was a turning point for me.

Sounds good!

Happy Reefing. :)

 

[WWIII]

I would agree in most cases but I have a fail safe set up with Tesla power grid system that can run my entire house for almost 2 wks if power goes out. So with that said I feel good about the power issue.The 83 is in my sump area the display normally ranges out at 81-82. Have had it that way for many years with no issue . In fact I have found in my situation I have much less algae issues and better growth not contributing it all to the temp but it was a turning point for me.

So you do have a sump?

 

[sheepdog76]

So you do have a sump?

Yes

 

[WWIII]

Yes

I would add a skimmer if so! The nutrient levels aren't extremely high for corals, but like suggeseted, may lead to algae troubles. Plenty of ways to control nutrients though. I've had good luck with vinegar and gfo. A tank of that size would benefit a lot from a skimmer imo.

 

[sheepdog76]

I would add a skimmer if so! The nutrient levels aren't extremely high for corals, but like suggeseted, may lead to algae troubles. Plenty of ways to control nutrients though. I've had good luck with vinegar and gfo. A tank of that size would benefit a lot from a skimmer imo.

Are you replying to me or the original poster?

 

[WWIII]

Are you replying to me or the original poster?

The OP. In the first post he stated that he ran the tank with no skimmer and no sump. I understand why people with no sump try to avoid a skimmer, but if he has one, then I see it only as a benefit. I see that was your suggestion as well!