Nitrites sky high for weeks

[zachj.1109]

Hey all, this is my first time posting on here so go easy on me! Also new with saltwater in general, but I have been freshwater fish keeping for a few years, I know, apples to oranges. But I’m in the middle of cycling my tank, it has been going since middle of December. I started with dry rock, live caribsea sand, dr Tim’s one and only, and the shrimp method, which now I know is not the best way but you live and learn. First week ammonia spiked to 1ppm then I put another shrimp in and went to 2ppm second week, 3rd week ammonia disappeared. At this point I did go buy pure ammonia and dosed again to 2ppm and was gone 2 days later. But since then my nitrites have not even budged and is a deep dark purple on the api kit, Nitrates as well register 100+ but I heard nitrites can give a false positive for the nitrate test with api. I have just now gotten diatoms in the past week and def are taking over the tank. I did a 50% water change yesterday after someone told me high nitrites can stall the cycle but the numbers are still 5+ on the api test, as well as nitrates being 100+. I guess I’m just lost and not sure if there is anything I can do to help the process. Patience I know is key, but as you all know it sucks lol. So my overall question is; is it normal for nitrites to be almost unmeasurable for 9 weeks? Are nitrates that high or is it just the high nitrites causing a false positive? Anything I should do, or NOT do?

parameters are
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 5+
nitrate 100+?!
ph 8
Phosphate 0
Thanks guys!

 

[Jekyl]

Welcome!

 

[Jekyl]

I would do another large water change. About 75% and test after.

 

[DaddyFish]

What mechanism do you have to export Nitrates, skimmer, algae scrubber, biopellet reactor, refugium with macroalgae, or just water changes?

 

[laverda]

I would get better test kits.

 

[DaddyFish]

Now I have lots more questions...
What is your water source, RO/DI, tap, distilled?
Have you tested freshly mixed salt water with the same Nitrate test kit, and what was that result?

Nitrates don't EVER go away unless you export them somehow. And if you start out with Nitrates in your fresh water supply they add to the end problem.

 

[zachj.1109]

What mechanism do you have to export Nitrates, skimmer, algae scrubber, biopellet reactor, refugium with macroalgae, or just water changes?

Hob skimmer and water changes this far. It’s a 40 gallon tank. Skimmer doesn’t get filled up very fast, I’ve only dumped it twice, but I don’t have fish yet either.

 

[zachj.1109]

Now I have lots more questions...
What is your water source, RO/DI, tap, distilled?
Have you tested freshly mixed salt water with the same Nitrate test kit, and what was that result?

Nitrates don't EVER go away unless you export them somehow. And if you start out with Nitrates in your fresh water supply they add to the end problem.

Planning to get an rodi next week. But I’ve used the premixed water from petco when I’ve changed water. I haven’t tested that water as I figured it was good. I will do that though.

 

[Jekyl]

Planning to get an rodi next week. But I’ve used the premixed water from petco when I’ve changed water. I haven’t tested that water as I figured it was good. I will do that though.

Get yourself some salifert tests and your own RoDi. In the long run it's just worth it to do so

 

[zachj.1109]

Get yourself some salifert tests and your own RoDi. In the long run it's just worth it to do so

As I’ve heard, I’ll hop on Amazon now Any specific rodi to go for?

 

[Jekyl]

I use the BRS 5 stage and love it. Comes with a built in TDS meter

 

[Azedenkae]

Hey all, this is my first time posting on here so go easy on me! Also new with saltwater in general, but I have been freshwater fish keeping for a few years, I know, apples to oranges. But I’m in the middle of cycling my tank, it has been going since middle of December. I started with dry rock, live caribsea sand, dr Tim’s one and only, and the shrimp method, which now I know is not the best way but you live and learn. First week ammonia spiked to 1ppm then I put another shrimp in and went to 2ppm second week, 3rd week ammonia disappeared. At this point I did go buy pure ammonia and dosed again to 2ppm and was gone 2 days later. But since then my nitrites have not even budged and is a deep dark purple on the api kit, Nitrates as well register 100+ but I heard nitrites can give a false positive for the nitrate test with api. I have just now gotten diatoms in the past week and def are taking over the tank. I did a 50% water change yesterday after someone told me high nitrites can stall the cycle but the numbers are still 5+ on the api test, as well as nitrates being 100+. I guess I’m just lost and not sure if there is anything I can do to help the process. Patience I know is key, but as you all know it sucks lol. So my overall question is; is it normal for nitrites to be almost unmeasurable for 9 weeks? Are nitrates that high or is it just the high nitrites causing a false positive? Anything I should do, or NOT do?

parameters are
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 5+
nitrate 100+?!
ph 8
Phosphate 0
Thanks guys!

So one molecule of nitrate has a much higher mass than ammonia, and since the API test kits measure ppm as mg/L, apparently once ammonia is converted to nitrate, it will measure way higher. Like, 4x higher or so. Plus the nitrite causing nitrate to read higher thing too, yeah. I only recently learnt about that, quite interesting.

Anyways, if you are concerned, I would do a 100% water change. At this point 100% water change does not harm anything even if it is a swing in parameters, but helps you 'reset' your parameters to 0 (or near enough to 0) so you can actually track what happens again.

Normally it is not necessary to do a water change during the cycle, let alone a large water change, but in cases like this it could be helpful. Especially when nitrite is at 5ppm (which according to Dr. Tim can significantly hinder the growth of nitrifiers), and especially when you don't know what the true nitrite concentration is since the API nitrite test reports 5ppm max.

 

[zachj.1109]

So one molecule of nitrate has a much higher mass than ammonia, and since the API test kits measure ppm as mg/L, apparently once ammonia is converted to nitrate, it will measure way higher. Like, 4x higher or so. Plus the nitrite causing nitrate to read higher thing too, yeah. I only recently learnt about that, quite interesting.

Anyways, if you are concerned, I would do a 100% water change. At this point 100% water change does not harm anything even if it is a swing in parameters, but helps you 'reset' your parameters to 0 (or near enough to 0) so you can actually track what happens again.

Normally it is not necessary to do a water change during the cycle, let alone a large water change, but in cases like this it could be helpful. Especially when nitrite is at 5ppm (which according to Dr. Tim can significantly hinder the growth of nitrifiers), and especially when you don't know what the true nitrite concentration is since the API nitrite test reports 5ppm max.

Good info! Thanks man will do

 

[DaddyFish]

As I’ve heard, I’ll hop on Amazon now Any specific rodi to go for?

Are you on city water, well, community well...???
Oh wait, I see you're at Hilton Head. Okay then, you definitely want a 5-stage RO/DI system. It will take one sediment and two carbon blocks to clean that water up enough for the RO membrane.

 

[TexanCanuck]

I don't want to complicate the discussion, but I'm confused by your original post.

Specifically, I'm confused if your concerns are with NITRITE (NO2) or NIRATE (NO3)?

Based on the numbers you quoted in your original posting, I'm not surprised that your NO2 levels are only 5ppm ... they follow very closely behind the drop in Ammonia (NH4).

The fact that your NO3 levels are still high, several folks have already commented on this ... NO3 will not drop unless you remove it (either with a water change, or some other nutrient export method such as a refugium or carbon dosing).

If your concerns are over NO2, stop worrying. Unlike freshwater aquariums where Nitrite can kill your fish, Nitrite in a saltwater aquarium are much less of a concern. In fact, many people don't even measure NO2. For more context, read this You'll need to scroll through he article just past half-way to get to the discussion on Nitrite):

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

If your concerns are with NO3, there are three basic steps here:

1) Stop adding nitrates from your water source. An RODI unit will go a long way here (if you don't like the 5-stage BRS unit, check out SpectraPure's MaxCap system)

2) Increase water changes until levels come down

3) Implement a means for exporting Nitrates. If you don't want to add a refugium, you can consider adding MacroAlgae directly to your main display tank, or try carbon dosing to increase the effectiveness of your skimmer. My preferred approach is Macroalgae in the display ... read more here:

Marine Plants In The Aquarium: An online guide to the identification and care of marine plants and macroalgae in the aquarium.

An online guide to the identification and care of marine plants and macroalgae in the aquarium.

www.marineplantbook.com

Hope these help!

Don't hesitate to ask if any of this doesn't make sense!

 

[brandon429]

Wanted add another neat angle

dont own a nitrite kit from any company, and never run one when reefing, solved



now by all means chemists and testers who enjoy making discoveries and new techniques by all means test away

but if someone’s goal is simply to reef, free of fear, stop owning and running nitrite test kits. The param doesn’t matter on day one of a dry rock start

nor in between and leading up to day 3000

its simply a param guaranteed to make you buy things circularly at a retail store.

 

[FishyFishFish]

I would still be interested to know WHY nitrites appear to be staying high for a number of people.

Saying that nitrites are irrelevant is fair enough but it doesn't help me to understand why they aren't reducing. My understanding is that the bacteria to do this should grow naturally without buying extra products, so what is it that is either preventing the nitrite reduction or causing the test mis-read (if that's what it is)?

I am in a similar situation.

 

[brandon429]

Dan has found that nitrites take a long time to get controlled in reefing. it varies tank to tank

but what doesn't vary is ammonia control, so the study here is independent from safe start dates, its a study in nitrite chemistry to answer it, not sure of the answer.

also possible: complete test misread. perhaps nothing is wrong. there isn't a consequence in the new tank if you discern the cause for nitrite or not, its neutral.

for example, one dose of Prime and you can't test for nitrites accurately on api it ruins the test a while.

check this thread out, thousands of dollars in unneeded purchases, all from owning the kit

we intercept stalled reefs here, and show they were never stalled.

We should use the collective power of the chem forum to prove or deny the possibility of sustained .25 ammonia in reefing

Why does it matter if reef tanks can have stuck cycles? Because when you move homes you don't want to lose animals, cycling science needs precision and predictability in order to protect our tanks. perhaps an emergency setup is needed, no wait time permitted or If you are invited to show...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Deep]

Wanted add another neat angle

dont own a nitrite kit from any company, and never run one when reefing, solved



now by all means chemists and testers who enjoy making discoveries and new techniques by all means test away

but if someone’s goal is simply to reef, free of fear, stop owning and running nitrite test kits. The param doesn’t matter on day one of a dry rock start

nor in between and leading up to day 3000

its simply a param guaranteed to make you buy things circularly at a retail store.

if nitrites are what you see in your nitrate test readings, then maybe it is good to measure nitrites. Atleast you can dose nitrates and not let corals starve.

 

[brandon429]

that's if you ascribe to the notion that we must test for nitrates to prevent coral starving. four hundred thousand nano owners think this isn't the case, so that need ranges tank to tank.

in my reef for sps and lps, it will never need testing for any param beyond temp and salinity, an easy to reproduce method for any interested as directly feeding corals high quality reef food will prevent starving, and we don't manage dinos by altering params though that's common in dinos threads.

so many different ways to reef agreed


tedious testing is fun too, but comparison threads among test kits show wildly varying results, we aren't dealing in accurately stated measures by and large/all the time