No prefiltration no problem.

BRS

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The fish are staring at me with hungry eyes.
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I have a transforming robosump made from a stock tank
So I can have or not have
3 x 7 inch filter socks
80 watts of UV
up to 800mg/hr of ozone
plus the usual stuff like skimmers, GFO, biopellets and a fuge.

So I can have what I think I need to have at any time.
 
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Paul B

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! I've often wondered why they've fallen out of favor but I've found them very helpful at times.
They fell out of favor because Vortex who built the things may not even be in business any longer and if they are, they don't advertise.

Also people normally go for more technical, expensive, complicated, automated, colorful, newer things especially if they are built in China and don't work as well as old school stuff. ;Wideyed
 
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atoll

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Paul B

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Paul,
Talk to us about MUM.
Whats MUM? My Mum died quite a few years ago and my Dad way longer ago.

I think we need an age cut off for Old Schoolers. Maybe you have to be over 60.

Of course I don't remember when I was 60 but I know I was that age at one point after my 50s. ;Wideyed

I wonder who is the oldest reefer here, and I sincerely hope it is not me. :rolleyes:

Here I am with my main squeeze behind my Dads 1947 Pontiac which is the only car he ever had. I was always a Ladies Man. :cool:

 
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atoll

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Your only a couple of months older than me Paul so am right behind you. 72 in December...that's if I make it till then of course.
 

Subsea

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Whats MUM? My Mum died quite a few years ago and my Dad way longer ago.

I think we need an age cut off for Old Schoolers. Maybe you have to be over 60.

Of course I don't remember when I was 60 but I know I was that age at one point after my 50s. ;Wideyed

I wonder who is the oldest reefer here, and I sincerely hope it is not me. :rolleyes:

Here I am with my main squeeze behind my Dads 1947 Pontiac which is the only car he ever had. I was always a Ladies Man. :cool:


I am 6 months older than Paul. We were both born in 1948. I was born in May and he was born on Christmas Eve.

Paul,
My bad on spelling MULM.

[I think one of the most important, and least understood or mentioned things in a reef tank is "mulm". That stuff that grows in the dark portions of a tank if it is set up long enough. "Mulm" is a combination of algae, sponges, bacteria, pods, worms, detritus, poop and any thing else that can be propagated or grown in the dark. I realize most people would immediately get out the sponge, razor blade or grenade to remove it but there is a word I like to use to describe those people. That word is "wrong". Mulm is a natural product that you will find in the sea all over the world. Our tanks run on bacteria, algae and a food chain. Bacteria and a food chain are dependent on having a place to reproduce. Mulm is the perfect place. Rocks and glass are flat surfaces that are only two dimensional. Mulm makes these places three dimensional allowing much more space for bacteria and microscopic organisms to grow and do the macarana. (Then love to dance) Pods, which are needed for any small fish also need to eat and their numbers are directly related to how much food they can get their hands on (or whatever pods use to eat with) The more food, the more pods, the more pods, the easier to keep smaller fish. Larger fish such as copperbands and angels also eat pods.
Many people try to keep fish such as pipefish, mandarins or other dragonettes in a sterile tank and while feeding them a couple of times a day with tiger pods or some other expensive food. Those types of fish will not live for long in such a tank and they certainly won't spawn which I consider the "only" criteria to determine the state of health for any paired fish.
Mulm (after a while, maybe a few years) should grow on the back and sides of glass as well as under rocks.
Here in this picture of my clingfish, the mulm appears green. It is really brownish and that fish is on the side of my tank. I brightened up the picture and turned it sideways because it was in the dark and the fish was hard to see.
There is a thick layer of it on the back of my tank where my mandarins and pipefish like to hunt. My long spined urchin also grazes there most of the time as there is not much algae in my tank for him to eat. He is many years old as are the mandarins and pipefish and they are dependent on this food source.
A sterile tank IMO is the biggest problem we have keeping certain fish healthy.
Sterile is good in an operating room but very bad in a tank.]
 
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atoll

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I am 6 months older than Paul. We were both born in 1948. I was born in May and he was born on Christmas Eve.

Paul,
My bad on spelling MULM.

[I think one of the most important, and least understood or mentioned things in a reef tank is "mulm". That stuff that grows in the dark portions of a tank if it is set up long enough. "Mulm" is a combination of algae, sponges, bacteria, pods, worms, detritus, poop and any thing else that can be propagated or grown in the dark. I realize most people would immediately get out the sponge, razor blade or grenade to remove it but there is a word I like to use to describe those people. That word is "wrong". Mulm is a natural product that you will find in the sea all over the world. Our tanks run on bacteria, algae and a food chain. Bacteria and a food chain are dependent on having a place to reproduce. Mulm is the perfect place. Rocks and glass are flat surfaces that are only two dimensional. Mulm makes these places three dimensional allowing much more space for bacteria and microscopic organisms to grow and do the macarana. (Then love to dance) Pods, which are needed for any small fish also need to eat and their numbers are directly related to how much food they can get their hands on (or whatever pods use to eat with) The more food, the more pods, the more pods, the easier to keep smaller fish. Larger fish such as copperbands and angels also eat pods.
Many people try to keep fish such as pipefish, mandarins or other dragonettes in a sterile tank and while feeding them a couple of times a day with tiger pods or some other expensive food. Those types of fish will not live for long in such a tank and they certainly won't spawn which I consider the "only" criteria to determine the state of health for any paired fish.
Mulm (after a while, maybe a few years) should grow on the back and sides of glass as well as under rocks.
Here in this picture of my clingfish, the mulm appears green. It is really brownish and that fish is on the side of my tank. I brightened up the picture and turned it sideways because it was in the dark and the fish was hard to see.
There is a thick layer of it on the back of my tank where my mandarins and pipefish like to hunt. My long spined urchin also grazes there most of the time as there is not much algae in my tank for him to eat. He is many years old as are the mandarins and pipefish and they are dependent on this food source.
A sterile tank IMO is the biggest problem we have keeping certain fish healthy.
Sterile is good in an operating room but very bad in a tank.]
Now, ain't that the truth. I have lots of mulm and sponge in the dark areas of my tank. Detritus is lovely stuff, I let it be, bo prefiltration no socks filter wool or roller mat. They remove too much IMO. No wonder some people have to add "potions" to their tanks to IMO make up for what much that is being removed.
 
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atoll

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I would guess these are larger systems? Even with a short break down cycle wouldn't a smaller system struggle to process with out some mechanical filtration to help?
Not necessarily. Mulm, detritus, stocking = to the amount of food put in ...mostly.
 

Subsea

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I would guess these are larger systems? Even with a short break down cycle wouldn't a smaller system struggle to process with out some mechanical filtration to help?

I don’t think it is the size of the system that determines natural filtration success. Age of system and diversity of micro fauna & fana determines nutrient management style.

Most smaller systems choose to focus on nutrient export as opposed to nutrient recycling of detritus.
 

Paul B

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Subsea, did I write that? It looks like something I would write.

By the way, my birthday is Christmas Day. I will be 73. :p
 
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atoll

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M.
Subsea, did I write that? It looks like something I would write.

By the way, my birthday is Christmas Day. I will be 73. :p
Hmm, I thought therecwas only a couple of months between us. Are your sure you don't keep changing your birthday date?
 

Subsea

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Subsea, did I write that? It looks like something I would write.

By the way, my birthday is Christmas Day. I will be 73. :p

It was printed June 2016

 
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Well, if 60 is the threshold gor the old geezer's old school club I've got a ways to go as I'm only 27.
Yep sorry you fail the bar.
Now remove yourself immediately and join the must QT, medicate everything and join the debate detritus is the spawn of the devil thread.
 

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Detritus breaks Down over time turning into different pollutants. Some of which we don’t have test kits for. Basically, it will result in better water quality overall.

what you call pollutants, I call nutrient recycling.

In my 25 yrs mature, 75G display with reverse flow undergravel filter with Jaubert plenum, micro fauna & fana convert inorganic & organic nutrients into live food for hungry mouths. It’s called the microbial loop.

The sump is a 30G EcoSystem mud/macro refugium which converted to Cryptic Refugium 5 yrs ago. Initially miracle mud was 1/2” deep. In 25 yrs detritus has increased mulm depth to 1”. It is crawling with stuff and feels spongy to the touch. Cryptic sponges are the third leg of biofiltration with algae & bacteria. It’s called “the sponge loop”.
 

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Here comes a youngster - born 1950 in march. No mechanical filters no cleaning of sump or whatever. How the tank looks - look at my build thread. No WC either. Running a revers flow DSB too

Sincerely Lasse
 
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PICK the Most Tested & Least Tested Parameters of your Tank (Pick 2)

  • Calcium (most)

    Votes: 30 6.3%
  • Alkalinity (most)

    Votes: 340 70.8%
  • Magnesium (most)

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • Phosphate (most)

    Votes: 33 6.9%
  • PH (most)

    Votes: 51 10.6%
  • Nitrate (most)

    Votes: 46 9.6%
  • Nitrite (most)

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • Ammonia (most)

    Votes: 8 1.7%
  • (least) Calcium

    Votes: 6 1.3%
  • (least) Alkalinity

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • (least) Magnesium

    Votes: 38 7.9%
  • (least) Phosphate

    Votes: 5 1.0%
  • (least) PH

    Votes: 23 4.8%
  • (least) Nitrate

    Votes: 6 1.3%
  • (least) Nitrite

    Votes: 153 31.9%
  • (least) Ammonia

    Votes: 188 39.2%
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