OffTopic's 20 Gallon SPS Reef Tank

[Fudsey]

Can't help you there.... I'm still only dosing by hand 2 part when I need it. My Ca and Mg don't seem to move much....for dkH I use BRS soda ash

 

[fabutahoun]

It depends on your coral consumption, sometimes you will not need to dose for few months and weekly water changes can be enough to meet the tank demand. you can start by manual dosing of 2 part when you notice that levels are dropping, then when the coral uptake is a little higher upgrade to doser.

 

[Janci]

I am not very experienced with kalkwasser in ATO, but for a small volume tank, there would be more variations using this method.
Unless you have the tank in a well temperature controlled place, a small variation in water evaporation, would have an inmediate impact on Alk.
My preference would always go to manual/automatic dosing of 2 part.

 

[NY_Caveman]

I am having this debate with myself right now too. My concern was gumming up the works of my ATO setup with the Kalkwasser. I have considered setting up a separate doser just for Kalkwasser, but am not yet sold on the idea. My concern with that is it would interfere with proper, simultaneous ATO monitoring.

Unless you have the tank in a well temperature controlled place, a small variation in water evaporation, would have an inmediate impact on Alk.

This is something I had not considered and seems to be a real concern for a smaller tank.

 

[OffTopic]

A bit of a update! I finally got around to ordering the ATO and ATO Reservoir from BRS and they will come in on Thursday. Also I order two test kits, Red Sea Marine Test Kit and Red Sea Reef Foundation Pro.

I also decided going with Two-Part for a multiple reasons. One next year with the eventual larger tank I will be dosing Two-Part and wanted to get some experience. Also I have been getting cold feet of dosing Kalkwasser in the ATO. @Janci pointed out something I didn’t really consider about the actual room temp stability, knowing that room doesn’t have constant temperature evaporation will be at different amounts constantly. With a bit consideration it seemed to be too many variables for me to be 100% comfortable. For now I will be manually dosing BRS Two-Part and once I find a good balance and I become comfortable I will set up dosers.

Now this is really exciting, I put in a order last night for a 10 Frags Battlebox from @Battlecorals! We talked about delaying shipment for a week to give me time to set up the ATO and ensure tank chemistry. So in two weeks the tank will have corals which is the real reason I have a Saltwater Fish Tank. Adam is helping me choose corals that are hardy and better to introduce into a new tank. My only question for you all, do y’all feed your corals with products like Reef Roids? I would love to see my corals on Roids if it is a good idea...

I must say I am really struggling with how to set up the lights for good Par/Growth. I don’t have a Par Meter myself so what can I do to setup a good lighting schedule? I want the lights to turn on from 1-11 as that’s the best shot I will actually see the tank on. Any ideas what I can do for the lighting schedule or resources I can read?

For tank specific updates I have got a new fish named Fredrick(Fred), he’s a Diamond Goby. I bought him to eat the diatoms and clean the sand bed, he is doing a fantastic job. For the first three days he hid in the sand but now I see him out and cleaning! Also I made a huge improvement on the aquascape, which I think looks a lot better! I will post pictures tonight.

I think the only equipment thing left is switching out the Powerhead and getting automatic dosing set up. But I need to wait just a little bit for my wallet to recover :rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

[Janci]

Nice update.
Those Kessil A80 lights can be connected to the Kessil controller. Frankly this controller is a bit pricey in IMHO, so a normal socket timer would do the trick in the beginning. 9 to 10 hours will be a nice daily light period. Longer periods are not really necessary.
As you have 2 lights over the 20G tank, I would keep the intensity of both lights as low as possible. These dense matrix set ups of Kessil throw a lot of PAR, even if you would not notice it with the bare eye. A PAR meter is the only real measurement you can do. As long as you cannot do a check with this meter, keep intensity low. I think 15% to start with for both lights will be more than enough.
Once coral goes in, dial it back to about 10% and see how they react. Later you adjust to higher intensity if the corals respond well to it. They will not die from a lack of light, but too strong light will fry them.
The color setting is something you can chose based on what look pleases you the most.

 

[NY_Caveman]

A bit of a update! I finally got around to ordering the ATO and ATO Reservoir from BRS and they will come in on Thursday. Also I order two test kits, Red Sea Marine Test Kit and Red Sea Reef Foundation Pro.

I also decided going with Two-Part for a multiple reasons. One next year with the eventual larger tank I will be dosing Two-Part and wanted to get some experience. Also I have been getting cold feet of dosing Kalkwasser in the ATO. @Janci pointed out something I didn’t really consider about the actual room temp stability, knowing that room doesn’t have constant temperature evaporation will be at different amounts constantly. With a bit consideration it seemed to be too many variables for me to be 100% comfortable. For now I will be manually dosing BRS Two-Part and once I find a good balance and I become comfortable I will set up dosers.

Now this is really exciting, I put in a order last night for a 10 Frags Battlebox from @Battlecorals! We talked about delaying shipment for a week to give me time to set up the ATO and ensure tank chemistry. So in two weeks the tank will have corals which is the real reason I have a Saltwater Fish Tank. Adam is helping me choose corals that are hardy and better to introduce into a new tank. My only question for you all, do y’all feed your corals with products like Reef Roids? I would love to see my corals on Roids if it is a good idea...

I must say I am really struggling with how to set up the lights for good Par/Growth. I don’t have a Par Meter myself so what can I do to setup a good lighting schedule? I want the lights to turn on from 1-11 as that’s the best shot I will actually see the tank on. Any ideas what I can do for the lighting schedule or resources I can read?

For tank specific updates I have got a new fish named Fredrick(Fred), he’s a Diamond Goby. I bought him to eat the diatoms and clean the sand bed, he is doing a fantastic job. For the first three days he hid in the sand but now I see him out and cleaning! Also I made a huge improvement on the aquascape, which I think looks a lot better! I will post pictures tonight.

I think the only equipment thing left is switching out the Powerhead and getting automatic dosing set up. But I need to wait just a little bit for my wallet to recover :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I recently posted this to someone with a similar question about PAR. FWIW...

The best way to determine an appropriate light level is using a PAR meter. Sometimes LFS (local fish stores) rent them out, or maybe you have a reefing buddy or club near you that will share.

Secondary to that several people use LUX meters or mobile phone LUX meter apps. You can find info on that through searches. Generally folks use a conversion value for different lighting to convert LUX to PAR. Some, like myself, also use basic LUX readings to determine if lights or bulbs are degrading over time.

Without any measurement it is tough to tell, but to some degree you can let the corals “tell” you what they like over time through trial and error. Best advice is to start low and increase slowly over weeks or months. If you are just starting the tank, I would not run the lights while cycling or even during the early maturing stages. There is nothing in the tank to utilize the light except algae at that time. Hope that all helps!

 

[fabutahoun]

as NY_Cavemann said, You Can Adjust light intensity by coral response, but it will take some time and some trial and error. if the corals are getting more brown or darker color, it means they need more light.
if the corals are losing colors and turning white it means the light is too powerful for them. PAR meter make this a lot easier.

You can rent or borrow a PAR meter, adjust your PAR take a photo of the tank and put the different PAR readings, this way you will have a reference that you can use anytime needed without the need to rent the meter again.

I did this photo when I first started my tank.

 

[Catchemall]

A funny story today while I went to the LFS for some RODI water. I think to do this story a bit of justice I have to give some backstory. So a couple of weeks ago I went to one LFS and it was extremely messy.

But the one that I normally go to is only opened between Thurs-Sat, and it also has a toll road so it costs $5 to go to it every time. I was in a need to get RODI water as my water has evaporated and I didn't want to add more salt water on top. So I go into this LFS a bit anxious due to my previous bad experience, but what followed had to be one of the funniest conversations to have happen in a few years.

I walk into the store and the "Marine Manager" is yelling at this lady that he wont sell her water. She was like, "But if I don't have any water my fish will die," he responded, "But I don't want to create another problem by adding the new water." She responded, "I will bring my water tomorrow to be tested," and the fish guy was like, "I might not even test it for you, I don't want you creating new problems with adding new water." This argument looped for five minutes before the "Marine Manager" said, "Fine bring your water tomorrow, I will test it." The lady storms out of the store and I nervously go up to ask a question. I later learn he has an interesting theory on water changes and how to keep your aquarium like the ocean...

Now I am a bit confused why you wouldn't sell someone saltwater, how will this add new problems? But I am new to all this so I approached the guy and asked him if he would sell me RODI water. Thinking he might yell at me that adding RODI water will kill my fish... But surprisingly he said," Oh for sure!" and went to the back room with a jug that costs $14.99, just remember that for later as becomes pretty important.

But I go back of the store where the RODI is filled and start asking a few question, this is when I started to realize something was off about this guy. I ask him about why the last time I was there why was the place so dirty. He tells me, "Well I took a vacation around that time, and the others must have not taken good enough care." This is all fine but then when I start asking questions about ATO's it became apparent either he is a savant reefer conducting complex experiments on fish or he might have one of those Colorado Treats ;) But I have never meet someone so passionate over ATOs in my life, for the rest of this he is practically yelling and pacing back and forth.

I ask him about his idea of using Kalkwasser with my ATO and his response was priceless. Full of jubilance speaking 1000 words a minute states, "Ya know if you have Kalkwasser with an ATO, you don't have an ATO," then pausing for some air, "you know what I am saying." I said, "Well not really, did I lose my ATO?" He was like, "Kalkwasser is an unneeded additive, I just look at my corals if they are open I am fine, if not well I figure it out," he continues, "If you have Kalkwasser you have an ATO with Kalkwasser, not a ATO." He says this about three times, and myself broken down I said, "yeah I understand." I kinda freaked was like, "yeah I will do some more research on ATO's, so I will get it later, but do you got some live-dry rock?"

He shows me over to the live rock with is priced at $6.00 a pound, this aswell will become pretty important later. But this part of the story isn't to important, I pick out two rocks that was equivalent to ten pounds and then I go to checkout. This is when the savant-reefer-marine-manager true cutting edge marine tips showed its full colors.

So I tell him, "yeah I am pretty new to reefing, just trying to figure stuff out," jubilant as ever the savant-reefer-marine-manager tells me his tips for reefing. I was telling him that I plan on doing 1/4 water changes weekly. He looks at me in disgust and tells me that he will rarely do water changes. Not to be rude or anything but his tanks are not what you call - healthy. But he was like he weekly takes his nitrates and if they are not above 60 ppm he won't even consider a water change. He said, "you should buy a coral as when it is open you are doing well, it is closed you are not," but his hand gestures were amazing, saying this about five times. Mind you at this point he was practically yelling pacing back and forth. The people were looking at me as what I assume is looks of horror.

Like I understand that there is methods such as triton that requires little-no water changes but believe me he definitely is not using these. He is like you need to treat this as an art, don't do water changes as this isn't how the ocean works. I at this point wanted to say, "Well the ocean is an open system, while my 20 Gallon Tank is definitely not the Pacific Ocean," I held some restraint. This question would only make matters worse. He was like, "Most people lie online, you need to find people like me to tell the truth." He goes on a tangent how people over complicate the hobby(which is an understandable position) but he says, I need people like him to tell me the truth. He says he tests all his products himself and religiously doesn't trust ATOs as people add additives to them(how could I think to add Kalkwasser to my tank). Maybe I meet a saltwater purist idk...

But the last part just killed me. He gives me his business card and said to call him for when he gets the "stock". I am not totally sure what "stock" he is mentioning, the Colorado own treats or maybe fish.

But all of this reefing preaching distracted my friend a bit, because my total bill was $53.o2... In my head I was like $6.00 X 10 + $14.99 + whatever the RODI water cost per gallon. Now, I round the 2 and this math doesn't add up...

I now have pictures of this guy in the back room performing complex experiments and writing the new cutting-edge saltwater books. But that is most likely not the case. So what is y'alls opinion, reefing legend or Colorado treats expert?

lol this is great. Unfortunately the nearest good Lfs to me is 2 hours away but there are a couple closer that are horrible to say the least. But sometimes it’s fun to go in and mess with this one lady. She’s a germaphobe that apperantley is scared of kids lol. But yet her store is a dump. But I always enjoy asking her about her lighting as this sets her over the edge. lol. I still haven’t figured out why she won’t answer the dang question. I mean what if I were to buy some like them. But you can ask her about the lights and she takes off and leaves you standing there. Haha it’s great. [emoji23]

 

[OffTopic]

lol this is great. Unfortunately the nearest good Lfs to me is 2 hours away but there are a couple closer that are horrible to say the least. But sometimes it’s fun to go in and mess with this one lady. She’s a germaphobe that apperantley is scared of kids lol. But yet her store is a dump. But I always enjoy asking her about her lighting as this sets her over the edge. lol. I still haven’t figured out why she won’t answer the dang question. I mean what if I were to buy some like them. But you can ask her about the lights and she takes off and leaves you standing there. Haha it’s great. [emoji23]

That’s amazing, it is fun that there still are quirky figures in this hobby. The hobby still seems relatively small and there’s a need small LFS. I am somewhat glad you cannot just go to a big box store to get specific aquarium parts, it would lose the unique aspect... but how dare you ask about lights, you could kill your fish ;);)

 

[OffTopic]

Nice update.
Those Kessil A80 lights can be connected to the Kessil controller. Frankly this controller is a bit pricey in IMHO, so a normal socket timer would do the trick in the beginning. 9 to 10 hours will be a nice daily light period. Longer periods are not really necessary.
As you have 2 lights over the 20G tank, I would keep the intensity of both lights as low as possible. These dense matrix set ups of Kessil throw a lot of PAR, even if you would not notice it with the bare eye. A PAR meter is the only real measurement you can do. As long as you cannot do a check with this meter, keep intensity low. I think 15% to start with for both lights will be more than enough.
Once coral goes in, dial it back to about 10% and see how they react. Later you adjust to higher intensity if the corals respond well to it. They will not die from a lack of light, but too strong light will fry them.
The color setting is something you can chose based on what look pleases you the most.

I recently posted this to someone with a similar question about PAR. FWIW...

as NY_Cavemann said, You Can Adjust light intensity by coral response, but it will take some time and some trial and error. if the corals are getting more brown or darker color, it means they need more light.
if the corals are losing colors and turning white it means the light is too powerful for them. PAR meter make this a lot easier.

You can rent or borrow a PAR meter, adjust your PAR take a photo of the tank and put the different PAR readings, this way you will have a reference that you can use anytime needed without the need to rent the meter again.

I did this photo when I first started my tank.

Interesting reads from all of you, thanks you for the input! My plan is I will go to my LFS and ask the “marine manager” for the “stock”.... I really don’t need much of a excuse anymore to try to find the savant reefer and trying to rent a PAR meter seems like a great one. Best part is every time I go there they drastically undercharge me so I probably get a great deal for renting it!

If I cannot find one to rent I will just start at low intensity and go from there. The spectral also has acclimation settings so I will be sure to use those!

 

[OffTopic]

Sorry for the subpar iPhone photos, I am trying to figure a way to make them look better... I am also one handed at the moment, but I really like the new aquascape!

 

[fabutahoun]

Interesting reads from all of you, thanks you for the input! My plan is I will go to my LFS and ask the “marine manager” for the “stock”.... I really don’t need much of a excuse anymore to try to find the savant reefer and trying to rent a PAR meter seems like a great one. Best part is every time I go there they drastically undercharge me so I probably get a great deal for renting it!

If I cannot find one to rent I will just start at low intensity and go from there. The spectral also has acclimation settings so I will be sure to use those!

Sounds like a good plan !!

 

[RomoFL]

Following this really nice build! Gives me hope for mine :D

 

[najer]

Excuse your likes going a bit nuts, caught up now, due to the size of my watched threads size I miss newer things! ;)
Looking good! :)

 

[OffTopic]

Hello bit of an update!

So I got the autotop off working and ready to go. It was a lot easier to setup than I originally expected. Took about twenty minutes even with my bad hand, more on that stupid story later lol!

Umm should I be concerned I haven’t seen my diamond goby in about four days? Typically I only see him during feeding times, but he hasn’t even been present then... the sand is clean so I think he is alive, am I good?

Good news I am getting the first set of corals this Tuesday from Adam at @Battlecorals, getting a ten pack of frags so that is exciting! I am excited to get the corals because as we all know that’s why we do saltwater!

Umm now for the dumbest thing to happen all week! Recently I injured my hand pretty good so it is basically useless. But I just got in my Red Sea test kits and I was super eager to use them... or I thought. So over the past hour I been struggling opening BOTTLE CAPS, yeah... I was able in my time of intense focus to get two reading ph and nitrate. Both good as a side note, 8.2 for ph and 10 ppm for nitrate. During intense mental focus and sweeting, I determined my seventh year in a rows New Years resolution to get in shape is a must! Ughh I was soo pathetic! In my defense I am a burn victim :rolleyes::rolleyes: But my plan is I will just go to the LFS tomorrow and have them test it, so I leave with a hand still on!

 

[fabutahoun]

You should give salifert a try, it should be easier to open the bottles.

 

[RomoFL]

Jeeze! Sorry about the hand.. that looks awful. I hurt my left foot just after starting my 20g build/cycle.. maybe it's a 20g curse? hmm.. lol

Good thing your pH is so good.. mine is still really low.. about 7.7 using Salifert testing. I'll check again once my Nitrates come down. Good luck healing!

 

[OffTopic]

Welp disaster just struck!

My auto-top off got stuck in the on position and I wake up to a audible alarm! In my confusion I go over to my fish tank and it is about 30% less water than usual in it, the pump running air and the clownfish are freaking out. I have little clue what happened to it, my floor is wet but the desk the tank is on is dry... I consider myself pretty lucky as I had my $2,000 computer on the desk opened as I am switching out PC cases. Theres is not a hint of water on it! I rush over frantic at this point and put in the little I have left in RO water and top off the rest with saltwater... So my salinity must have shot up due to all of this... ugh! Best of all I am getting CORALS today and everything is off the rails... Guess the larger the climb the higher the reward?

This is purely anecdotal and a two in the morning decision but I must say I never would recommend the Smart ATO Micro, two days and this thing already attempted to mess up my tank. When it becomes a better hour, I will give BRS a call and see what we can due to fix the situation!

What should I due in the morning? This whole situation gives me the spooks, should I just give up on ATO's all together? Or go with Tunzes offerings?

 

[NY_Caveman]

Welp disaster just struck!

My auto-top off got stuck in the on position and I wake up to a audible alarm! In my confusion I go over to my fish tank and it is about 30% less water than usual in it, the pump running air and the clownfish are freaking out. I have little clue what happened to it, my floor is wet but the desk the tank is on is dry... I consider myself pretty lucky as I had my $2,000 computer on the desk opened as I am switching out PC cases. Theres is not a hint of water on it! I rush over frantic at this point and put in the little I have left in RO water and top off the rest with saltwater... So my salinity must have shot up due to all of this... ugh! Best of all I am getting CORALS today and everything is off the rails... Guess the larger the climb the higher the reward?

This is purely anecdotal and a two in the morning decision but I must say I never would recommend the Smart ATO Micro, two days and this thing already attempted to mess up my tank. When it becomes a better hour, I will give BRS a call and see what we can due to fix the situation!

What should I due in the morning? This whole situation gives me the spooks, should I just give up on ATO's all together? Or go with Tunzes offerings?

So sorry to hear. I really like my Tunze 3155. The optical sensor with redundant mechanical float switch has saved me twice from floods. The optical sensor alone would have led to a flood both times.