Potential stuck cycle

[ajtomase]

Hello,

I'm currently on day 13 of Dr. Tim's cycle and have been following his schedule for starting my cycle. I've dosed his ammonium chloride on his designated days, and dosed my 200 gallon tank with his One and Only on day 1 and another day on day 10 after email dissuasions with his team. My tank is currently at .25 ammonia, .1 nitrite, 100 nitrates, 7.8 pH (all with Salifert tests) and is kept at 84 degrees (per Dr. Tim's instructions).

I'm not sure why my ammonia or nitrites are at 0 yet, but I wanted to perform 2 40% water changes to at least bring down the nitrates to a tolerable level. My concern is that if I do that large of a water change (taking water from the water column and not disturbing the sand) that I'd disrupt the cycle.

How can I get my ammonia and nitrites to 0 so I can start adding my first fish (clownfish) to the tank? Is my cycle stuck, and if so how do I get it going again? I heard that I'm not supposed to (Dr. Tim says to avoid it) and i've heard that it can really mess up chemistry in the tank.

Please help this new reefer enjoy some fish in his new tank soon!

 

[Jeffcb]

Hello,

I'm currently on day 13 of Dr. Tim's cycle and have been following his schedule for starting my cycle. I've dosed his ammonium chloride on his designated days, and dosed my 200 gallon tank with his One and Only on day 1 and another day on day 10 after email dissuasions with his team. My tank is currently at .25 ammonia, .1 nitrite, 100 nitrates, 7.8 pH (all with Salifert tests) and is kept at 84 degrees (per Dr. Tim's instructions).

I'm not sure why my ammonia or nitrites are at 0 yet, but I wanted to perform 2 40% water changes to at least bring down the nitrates to a tolerable level. My concern is that if I do that large of a water change (taking water from the water column and not disturbing the sand) that I'd disrupt the cycle.

How can I get my ammonia and nitrites to 0 so I can start adding my first fish (clownfish) to the tank? Is my cycle stuck, and if so how do I get it going again? I heard that I'm not supposed to (Dr. Tim says to avoid it) and i've heard that it can really mess up chemistry in the tank.

Please help this new reefer enjoy some fish in his new tank soon!

Large water change would be a good idea with that much Nitrate and will not effect the cycle.
What kind on ammonia test kit are you using. You may double check that at the LFS
Chances are it is cycled.

Local cycle expert @brandon429 may be able to chime in.

 

[Nanojoe]

Wow 100 nitrates is pretty impressive on day 13.
I would give it time. Every tank cycles differently. There are so many variables to this, you’d drive yourself nuts with.
Keep testing, add some different bacteria bottles, Dr Tims is always a good go to. I even use brightwell bacteria as well.
This hobby will teach your patience. Without it you’ll struggle.

 

[KrisReef]

What things -can- be done fast in reefing?

We are aware of the old tenet, nothing happens fast but I see fast actions all the time here and safe outcomes, let’s see where we can bend the old rule and not be unethical: 1. cycling. Waiting 30 days for ammonia control isn’t needed. pretty much any bacteria you buy + tank dilution allows...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ajtomase]

Large water change would be a good idea with that much Nitrate and will not effect the cycle.
What kind on ammonia test kit are you using. You may double check that at the LFS
Chances are it is cycled.

Local cycle expert @brandon429 may be able to chime in.

Thanks! I used Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride along with his One and Only. @brandon429 please help!! Am I ok to do 40% water changes to kick the nitrates back and test in between each one? How will I know when my cycle is complete if i do the water changes?

 

[ajtomase]

@DrTim are you able to weigh in on this?

 

[twhit030]

I’ve seen nitrate as high as 400 in a tank before believe it or not with corals and a few fish still living lol you could almost sell your water at that. I did the doctor Tim’s thing for a while and as boring and crappy as it is I found the best way was to literally just have water running through my system for 1 month with no lights at all then slowely I started incorporating the lights 20 percent at a time again over 5 weeks it’s a pain but the best cycle method. At this point I’d say do one big water change 50 percent or so. Even if that brings nitrates down to 20 that’s awesome. Also unless you have corals turn your lights off for a week. That will keep the Ammonia from multiplying

 

[ajtomase]

I’ve seen nitrate as high as 400 in a tank before believe it or not with corals and a few fish still living lol you could almost sell your water at that. I did the doctor Tim’s thing for a while and as boring and crappy as it is I found the best way was to literally just have water running through my system for 1 month with no lights at all then slowely I started incorporating the lights 20 percent at a time again over 5 weeks it’s a pain but the best cycle method. At this point I’d say do one big water change 50 percent or so. Even if that brings nitrates down to 20 that’s awesome. Also unless you have corals turn your lights off for a week. That will keep the Ammonia from multiplying

Right now I don't have the lights on (and won't have them on for another 3 more months. No filter socks in there, protein skimmer isn't running (completely fish-less cycle). There are no corals in there either so just waiting for the ammonia and nitrites to go down to safely add fish

 

[twhit030]

Hmmm, try large water change and skimmer on. That’s strange I was completely expecting you to be like “yeah lights are on 12 hours a day.

are you going through the “ugly phase” yet? Any diatoms or algae at all

 

[3429810]

The high nitrate reading could be because of nitrites but I’m not sure how salifert works in that regard. I know with Red Sea tests that can really throw them off.

The tank is honestly probably cycled at this point so water changes won’t hurt but I don’t think it would hurt just to leave it a bit longer and see what happens either. You could also do big water changes then cycle the tank with like 0.5-1ppm ammonia just to be sure.

 

[vtecintegra]

This whole "cycle stuck" to me seems like an old wives tale that people keep perpetuating. 100 nitrate sounds like something is working. And if it's an API ammonia kit, that thing has all kinds of doubt around it.

 

[ajtomase]

Hmmm, try large water change and skimmer on. That’s strange I was completely expecting you to be like “yeah lights are on 12 hours a day.

are you going through the “ugly phase” yet? Any diatoms or algae at all

Sand is still pretty clean and using purple rocks so hard to tell

 

[twhit030]

I’d agree with vtecintegra something is def working if you have nitrate. However I’ll have to say if you’re showing nitrite and ammonia you’re def not done cycling. The more nitrite in the tank the higher and longer the nitrate will produced. Helped a guy with a 1500 gal private wall tank in florida. His tank took 4 months to cycle and nitrate hit 340. We found out later the rodi water we were using had about 10ppm in it and that’s what was causing it to produce so much ammonia and nitrite.

 

[ajtomase]

I’d agree with vtecintegra something is def working if you have nitrate. However I’ll have to say if you’re showing nitrite and ammonia you’re def not done cycling. The more nitrite in the tank the higher and longer the nitrate will produced. Helped a guy with a 1500 gal private wall tank in florida. His tank took 4 months to cycle and nitrate hit 340. We found out later the rodi water we were using had about 10ppm in it and that’s what was causing it to produce so much ammonia and nitrite.

Is it possible to have 0 tds coming out of my RODI system (have the BRS 7 stage 150 gps water saver) but still have ammonia traces in it? How did you solve that problem?

 

[twhit030]

Yes it’s possible, where are you located? So I use to live in Georgia at non filters was about 7tds and then I moved to florida and it’s 500tds and we have to change filters every 4 months (depending upon how often you make water and if you’re flushing the lines after every use

 

[ajtomase]

Yes it’s possible, where are you located? So I use to live in Georgia at non filters was about 7tds and then I moved to florida and it’s 500tds and we have to change filters every 4 months (depending upon how often you make water and if you’re flushing the lines after every use

I live in Arizona (Chandler). My system is in 2 parts and part 1 has sediment filter, 2 carbon filters, 2 RO membranes. Part 2 is the cation resin, an anion resin, and a mixed bed resin. Before flushing the system my TDS meter 200-250ish after part 1, after flushing, it goes down to about 17ish TDS before it does goes into the 3 resin canisters. Still getting 0 TDS as the end product.

 

[ajtomase]

Yes it’s possible, where are you located? So I use to live in Georgia at non filters was about 7tds and then I moved to florida and it’s 500tds and we have to change filters every 4 months (depending upon how often you make water and if you’re flushing the lines after every use

I also have an booster pump and an automatic flusher I recently installed, before I was manually flushing

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I expect the important part of the cycle is done (the ability to process ammonia), and that the nitrate is not as high as you think, reading false high due to the nitrite, and that a water change is a fine plan, followed by adding a fish or two.

 

[Cell]

Likely false positive on ammonia. Stop testing nitrate until your nitrites go down. Nitrite is not harmful to marine fish. As long as ammonia is being processed, you are ok to add a fish.

 

[GARRIGA]

Nitrates will give false results if nitrites are present. I wouldn’t change water because of nitrates. Never have.

Not sure why the cycle has taken so long. Last I did one the ammonia cycled in a few days and nitrites shortly after. Less than two weeks. If I recall correctly it was only 9 days. I also cycled nitrates with carbon dosing. No WC needed.

In general. If a cycle stalls one could just start from scratch again and dose nitrifiers. I’d just skip adding ammonia until both ammonia and nitrites are zero. I’m one who stress tests my cycles by constantly adding more ammonium chloride at higher dosages to test max I can add. Aiming for hitting 4 ppm ammonia each dose. Then start carbon dosing to lower nitrates. Latter something I just started last cycle.