Red Sea RCP vs BRS vs ESV B-Ionic dosing breakdown

Discussion in 'Reef Chemistry by Randy Holmes-Farley' started by HomeSlizzice, Jul 6, 2017.

  1. HomeSlizzice

    HomeSlizzice Wrasse/Angelfish nut!

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    Like the title states, I decided to break down the recommended dosing instructions per brand to help me (and possibly others) when deciding on what supplements to use and dose (and how much if switching). Also Randy, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

    I decided to do this after spending a good amount of time looking into all three and I wanted to have all three laid out in a simple comparison for easy dosing instructions. So hopefully this helps someone out, like it helped me.

    I did this by simply using the Red Sea Reef Care Program's (RCP) Reef Foundation ABC supplements and their dosing instructions, and then comparing it to the calculators on BRS, and the Reef Chemistry Calculator.

    Bulk Reef Supply Calculator: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-calculator/
    Reef Chemistry Calculator: http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html


    Red Sea RCP vs BRS vs ESV B-Ionic dosing breakdown:

    Red Sea RCP
    Reef Foundation A: 1ml will raise the Ca level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 2ppm
    Reef Foundation B: 1ml will raise the Alk level of 100 liters (25 gal) by (0.1dKH)
    Reef Foundation C: 1ml will raise the Mg level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 1ppm.

    BRS 2 part
    2 part Calcium Solution: 5.1 ml will raise the Ca level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 2ppm
    2 part Alkalinity Solution (Soda Ash): 1.7 ml will raise the Alk level of 100 liters (25 gal) by (0.1dKH)
    BRS Magnesium Mix Solution: 2 ml will raise the Mg level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 1ppm.

    ESV B-Ionic
    E.S.V. B-Ionic Calcium Buffer System Part 2 (Ca): 3.1 ml will raise the Ca level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 2ppm
    E.S.V. B-Ionic Calcium Buffer System Part 1 (Alk): 1.1 ml will raise the Alk level of 100 liters (25 gal) by (0.1dKH)
    E.S.V. B-Ionic Magnesium: 2.5 ml will raise the Mg level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 1ppm.


    I hope that helps!


    - David
     
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  2. Damien Buckley

    Damien Buckley Member

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    Great guide. Just a small note to add that with Red Sea Foundation B *powder* mix, the stock solution is roughly 1/3 strength of the bottled pre-mixed liquid so only lifts alkalinity by 0.034dkh per 1ml solution. Foundation A/C appear to be the same strength whether using powder or liquid.
     
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  3. roibenami

    roibenami Active Member

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    Also it could be worth mentioning that red sea calcium also has strontium and Barium... ESV should also have some trace elements but I'm not sure...
     
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  4. Damien Buckley

    Damien Buckley Member

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    That's a good point. I stopped dosing those when I started using Foundation A.
     
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  5. HomeSlizzice

    HomeSlizzice Wrasse/Angelfish nut!

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    Excellent points!
     
  6. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    Just to clarify a bit...

    ESV two part has magnesium in it, and probably about as much as my DIY (BRS) when my DIY magnesium part is used as recommended. So their magnesium supplement would be used in a different way to my DIY.
     
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  7. HomeSlizzice

    HomeSlizzice Wrasse/Angelfish nut!

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    Thanks for pointing that out, I forgot to put that in my dosing conversion. Chances are you won't really need to dose Magnesium (only occasionally for periodic adjustments) as its already in there. ESV also has trace elements in added, so if you try to avoid water changes, chances are you'll want to eventually add those back in or dose them after some ICP testing if you are noticing anything dropping.
     
  8. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Reef Tank 365 Partner Member 2018 Partner Member 2019

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    The $$ comparison would be good to add. From what you posted it certainly seems like Reef Foundation A/B/C requires the lowest doses by volume. It's late, almost time for bed, but I'll make a start at it:

    ESV 2-gallon package (1G Ca, 1G Alk) = $34 ($17/G each)
    5000mL Reef Foundation A, B, or C = $85 ($64.39/G each)

    The Red Sea is 3.78x the cost of ESV by volume, but 1ml of the RF A (Ca/Sr) does as much as 3.1ml of the ESV Ca. Alk is close to even & Mg is 2.5x more potent. ESV seems to come out cheaper on paper. Especially if you need to buy a lot - the "8-gallon package" brings the cost per gallon down to $11.25. How much cheaper is the Red Sea powder? I'm not sure how much liquid volume the 1Kg jar makes after mixing.
     
  9. aeras1131

    aeras1131 Active Member

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    Also, If you mix Red Sea Foundation C into a solution stock at the recommended amounts, the Mg will fall out of the solution. I actually recommend the ESV Bionic. It is premixed. It is about the same price as 1kg of Foundation C Dry Mix. Also, the product does not need to be constantly stirred. My experience is derived from Foundation C dry product. I do not have experience with the BRS product. If anyone does please chime in.
     
  10. Ashish Patel

    Ashish Patel Valuable Member

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    Hi David,

    Thanks for doing this it made my life easier. I just got the Red sea (iron /Trace color C) and use BRS 2 part. Redsea recommend 1/10 (iron/RS Ca) ratio of this product against their own Calcium. Based on your calculations Red sea CA is 5X more concentrated that BRS CA, therefore 1/50 (Iron/BRS CA). If i used your calculation I would need to start of at 5ML of Color C per 7 days.

    Is anyone else using BRS 2part with color C that can shed light on a good starting point? I do have a Iron test kit but if the calculations are there why not start on the low side, test and then adjust!
     
  11. HomeSlizzice

    HomeSlizzice Wrasse/Angelfish nut!

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    Hi Ashish,

    Your thinking makes sense to me, but I would keep an eye on the iron levels through testing. It may be better to start off slowly. It may also be worth buying at least 2 ICP tests (Triton for example), as long as nothing changes and everything stays the same in your dosing/feeding schedule you can use the testing to double check your dosing schedule.

    I haven't done what you are proposing, but it makes sense to me haha.
     
  12. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    FWIW, I think Red Sea adds way more iron than is needed. I actually wonder if it is just so high so it can be detectable with a kit.
     
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  13. Ashish Patel

    Ashish Patel Valuable Member

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    Hi Randy,
    I did get RS color test kit more so because of the cost vs buying Iodine separately. I don't see how testing in 1 hour after dosing makes sense how high do we want the Iron to be and what good is it if it test at 0 after 1 hr? I believe it is present in the water just dissolves to the point of being undetectable quickly? Therefore, i'd like to get a close enough estimate of what my tank is using and going off CA only is probably not the best since everyones tank is different and some tanks have Refugiums, therefore would require more iron then one without.

    Yesterday I dosed first time 2.5ML of color C. I have exact water volume of 130 gallons and daily 2 part consumption of 36ML each of CA/ALK. To avoid any algae or issues to the system what would you recommend I dose bi-weekly or small amount per day and observe the tank? Based on this thread alone and my CA consumption I've come up with I need about 5ML of Color c per week. Does this sound about right of what people are using in there systems?
     
  14. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    I do not think iron ever needs to be kit detectable. Here’s a copy and paste from another article of mine:

    (Fe). The natural iron level varies a lot with depth, but surface seawater may have only 0.006 µg/L. The Triton LOD = 0.3 µg/L. I dose iron, and when I dose it I boost iron to roughly 1-2 µg/L, which would be detectable. This sample was taken more than a week after the last iron dosing, and none was detected as it gets depleted in the meanwhile. I’ve not yet seen a Triton test result for a real aquarium sample that had detectable iron, but that doesn’t mean these tanks are necessarily deficient. Iron is also a case where the form is critical, and ICP cannot distinguish form. Binding to organic matter, for example, can alter the bioavailability of iron.
     
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