Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

[Tmmste]

This will get very confusing since the sulfate discussion is now appended to a recipe thread that does not include sodium sulfate. I'll continue that discussion on the other thread.

Sorry randy you are right, I posted this in the wrong topic.

 

[Myka]

I mixed up my new recipes today. Here is what I'm doing:

Part 1: Calcium chloride + Tropic Marin Trace 1 + Tropic Marin Trace 2.

Part 2: Sodium hydroxide + Tropic Marin Trace 3.

Part 3: Tropic Marin Part C (sodium chloride free salt)

Currently AM is 7.6 pH units, PM is 8.0 oh units. Also, currently running a CO2 scrubber on the skimmer intake.

I'll report back in a month.

 

[Finhead]

I mixed up my new recipes today. Here is what I'm doing:

Part 1: Calcium chloride + Tropic Marin Trace 1 + Tropic Marin Trace 2.

Part 2: Sodium hydroxide + Tropic Marin Trace 3.

Part 3: Tropic Marin Part C (sodium chloride free salt)

Currently AM is 7.6 pH units, PM is 8.0 oh units. Also, currently running a CO2 scrubber on the skimmer intake.

I'll report back in a month.

@Myka what % are you mixing the TM elemts to the 2 part? And where where you able to get Tropic Marin Trace in Canada?

 

[Myka]

@Myka what % are you mixing the TM elemts to the 2 part? And where where you able to get Tropic Marin Trace in Canada?

Sorry, I made a typo, I'm using FAUNA Marin. I don't think either TM or FM are readily available in Canada anymore.

I'll answer your first question anyway in case someone else is using these products. It involves some mathification. I asked @JimWelsh to double check my math, and kindly he ok'd it, but then I changed things up to match Randy's 2-part recipe, so hopefully I didn't mess anything up... ;Woot

If you want to skip the maths, go to the bottom...

The Tropic Marin bottles say this:

TM calcium part: 2000 g Calcium chloride dihydrate dissolved in RODI to make 5000 mL total solution. Add 25 mL trace 1 & 2.
TM alk part: 500g of sodium bicarbonate dissolved in RODI to make 5000 mL total solution. Add 25 mL trace 3.

*** Notice that the TM calcium part (2000g calcium chloride) is NOT balanced with the TM alkalinity part (500g sodium bicarb). The only reason I can think of that they did this is so that you use an equal amount of each Trace bottle so make dosing simpler. However, that means that you use the calcium and alkalinity solutions at vastly different rates. ***

I looked at Randy's Recipe #1 (which is the same strength as his NEW recipe we're all talking about here, and uses the same chemicals as described in the TM recipes.

Randy's OLD recipe #1 using sodium bicarbonate is this:

RR#1 calcium part: Dissolve 500 grams of calcium chloride dihydrate in enough water to make 1 gallon total volume.
RR#1 alk part: Dissolve 594 grams of [sodium bicarbonate which is then baked to make sodium carbonate] in enough water to make 1 gallon total volume.

So I ignored the amount of water using in each of these solutions, and assume the trace elements are in direct ratio to the amount of calcium (or bicarb).

25 mL trace 1 & 2 per 2000g calcium chloride dihydrate. Randy's 500g calcium correlates to 25% of 25 mL. So, 6.25 mL FM Trace 1 & 2 into Randy's 1 gallon calcium part.

25 mL trace 3 per 500g sodium bicarbonate. Randy's 594g bicarb correlates to 100.188% of 25 mL. So 29.7 mL trace 3 into Randy's 1 gallon alkalinity part.

Now all you gotta do is sub out the bicarb for the hydroxide and you're golden.

So here are the important parts of Randy's NEW recipe:

Calcium part: Dissolve 500 grams of calcium chloride dihydrate in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume.
Alk part: Add 283 grams of sodium hydroxide to 1 gallon of fresh water. (I assumed Randy doesn't make mistakes, and the total volume of this part is just over 1 gallon.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skip the math here.

This is what my canisters look like:

Canister 1: 500 g of calcium chloride dihydrate (or 400 g calcium chloride anhydrous) in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume, add 6.25 mL FM Trace 1 & 2.
Canister 2: 283 g sodium hydroxide to 1 gallon of fresh water, add 29.7 mL FM Trace 3.
Canister 3: 91 g Tropic Marin chloride free sea salt Part C in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume.

Please, someone let me know if I messed things up...

 

[Finhead]

Sorry, I made a typo, I'm using FAUNA Marin. I don't think either TM or FM are readily available in Canada anymore.

I'll answer your first question anyway in case someone else is using these products. It involves some mathification. I asked @JimWelsh to double check my math, and kindly he ok'd it, but then I changed things up to match Randy's 2-part recipe, so hopefully I didn't mess anything up... ;Woot

If you want to skip the maths, go to the bottom...

The Tropic Marin bottles say this:

TM calcium part: 2000 g Calcium chloride dihydrate dissolved in RODI to make 5000 mL total solution. Add 25 mL trace 1 & 2.
TM alk part: 500g of sodium bicarbonate dissolved in RODI to make 5000 mL total solution. Add 25 mL trace 3.

*** Notice that the TM calcium part (2000g calcium chloride) is NOT balanced with the TM alkalinity part (500g sodium bicarb). The only reason I can think of that they did this is so that you use an equal amount of each Trace bottle so make dosing simpler. However, that means that you use the calcium and alkalinity solutions at vastly different rates. ***

I looked at Randy's Recipe #1 (which is the same strength as his NEW recipe we're all talking about here, and uses the same chemicals as described in the TM recipes.

Randy's OLD recipe #1 using sodium bicarbonate is this:

RR#1 calcium part: Dissolve 500 grams of calcium chloride dihydrate in enough water to make 1 gallon total volume.
RR#1 alk part: Dissolve 594 grams of [sodium bicarbonate which is then baked to make sodium carbonate] in enough water to make 1 gallon total volume.

So I ignored the amount of water using in each of these solutions, and assume the trace elements are in direct ratio to the amount of calcium (or bicarb).

25 mL trace 1 & 2 per 2000g calcium chloride dihydrate. Randy's 500g calcium correlates to 25% of 25 mL. So, 6.25 mL FM Trace 1 & 2 into Randy's 1 gallon calcium part.

25 mL trace 3 per 500g sodium bicarbonate. Randy's 594g bicarb correlates to 100.188% of 25 mL. So 29.7 mL trace 3 into Randy's 1 gallon alkalinity part.

Now all you gotta do is sub out the bicarb for the hydroxide and you're golden.

So here are the important parts of Randy's NEW recipe:

Calcium part: Dissolve 500 grams of calcium chloride dihydrate in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume.
Alk part: Add 283 grams of sodium hydroxide to 1 gallon of fresh water. (I assumed Randy doesn't make mistakes, and the total volume of this part is just over 1 gallon.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skip the math here.

This is what my canisters look like:

Canister 1: 500 g of calcium chloride dihydrate (or 400 g calcium chloride anhydrous) in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume, add 6.25 mL FM Trace 1 & 2.
Canister 2: 283 g sodium hydroxide to 1 gallon of fresh water, add 29.7 mL FM Trace 3.
Canister 3: 91 g FM Sodium chloride free sea salt Part C in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume.

Please, someone let me know if I messed things up...

Thanks for that, lots of typing if you can't get the TM here. You can for sure get the Fauna Marin in Canada though. A buddy of mine in town used to run it in his system and switched to AF since it's far easier to get from multiple places. Says there's no real difference between them from a growth/color viewpoint, his system is packed full with SPS.

 

[Myka]

Thanks for that, lots of typing if you can't get the TM here. You can for sure get the Fauna Marin in Canada though. A buddy of mine in town used to run it in his system and switched to AF since it's far easier to get from multiple places. Says there's no real difference between them from a growth/color viewpoint, his system is packed full with SPS.

All the typing was in reference to FM though, which yes I see is again readily available (besides I type at 80 wpm, so it didn't take very long). I just haven't seen FM in any stores myself in a long time. I was on AF for about a year, but switched back to FM. I've had the best results with FM over any of the products I've used in the last 25 years, so I'm sticking with it. I don't like AF because they have consistency issues ime.

Hopefully there is someone reading that wants to use FM so my effort is not in vain.

 

[Finhead]

All the typing was in reference to FM though, which yes I see is again readily available (besides I type at 80 wpm, so it didn't take very long). I just haven't seen FM in any stores myself in a long time. I was on AF for about a year, but switched back to FM. I've had the best results with FM over any of the products I've ever used. I don't like AF because they have consistency issues ime.

Hopefully there is someone reading that wants to use FM so my effort is not in vain.

Oh the FM info was useful to me at least. I was thinking about trying it out for awhile, may still do so when I run out of the ATI #2 #3. Using this High PH alk part now so it's kind of waste to stay on the ATI.

 

[gobble]

I might be an outlier, but I've been dosing this for a couple weeks and it doesn't seem to have any effect on pH. I've been dosing a 24 hour cycle top of every hour, I wanted to see the 24 hour effect before setting to dose at night, and I'm bouncing between 7.75 and 7.9. I was between 7.85 and 7.9 with the BRS solution (when I had the schedule set to dose at night). How is that possible?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I might be an outlier, but I've been dosing this for a couple weeks and it doesn't seem to have any effect on pH. I've been dosing a 24 hour cycle top of every hour, I wanted to see the 24 hour effect before setting to dose at night, and I'm bouncing between 7.75 and 7.9. I was between 7.85 and 7.9 with the BRS solution (when I had the schedule set to dose at night). How is that possible?

The effect depends on how much you are dosing and how strongly you are aerating the tank with high CO2 air.

Do you know the daily dose in dKH per day?

 

[gobble]

The effect depends on how much you are dosing and how strongly you are aerating the tank with high CO2 air.

Do you know the daily dose in dKH per day?

I've been dosing 38ml per day

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've been dosing 38ml per day

To what size tank? (water volume estimate)

That's how we can determine if you would expect a big rise or not.

 

[gobble]

To what size tank? (water volume estimate)

That's how we can determine if you would expect a big rise or not.

It's a Reefer 450. 450 liters or about 120 gallons total volume, less the rock.

 

[jnvd3b]

I am dosing 30ml a day to 60 gallons total volume which if i did the math right (used brs calculator) is .7dkh per day. Which seemed like a high usage to me since i dont have many corals....

One thing i know is my ph has become much more stable never below 8.0 never above 8.2 really. (I also have the apex set to turn the doser off altogeher if it got above 8.35, for security)

So it’s working well for me using a jebao doser rather than trying to get the kalk/ato to work properly.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It's a Reefer 450. 450 liters or about 120 gallons total volume, less the rock.

38 mL per day into 120 gallons is a small amount. 0.4 dKH per day.

Even if you added that all at once, the pH boost would only be about 0.15 pH units (depends a lot on the alk and the actual starting pH). Spread that out over a whole day and night and allow CO2 to keep entering, and the expected effect is minor. Some people add 5 times as much in a day, or more.

 

[jnvd3b]

38 mL per day into 120 gallons is a small amount. 0.4 dKH per day.

Even if you added that all at once, the pH boost would only be about 0.15 pH units (depends a lot on the alk and the actual starting pH). Spread that out over a whole day and night and allow CO2 to keep entering, and the expected effect is minor. Some people add 5 times as much in a day, or more.

Is there a way to calculate the expected ph unit swing based on dkh dosed? You probably have written an article on it but not sure which one.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is there a way to calculate the expected ph unit swing based on dkh dosed? You probably have written an article on it but not sure which one.

There's no exact calculation because it depends on the starting alkalinity and the starting pH, but adding 1.4 dKH of hydroxide to NSW at pH 8.1 boosts pH by about 0.6 pH units. The rise is proportional to the amount of alk added, and is lower at higher starting alkalinity. And is lower at higher starting pH (up to the upper 8's).

 

[gobble]

My dosing lines are turning white using this ALK formula. Are you guys finding the same thing? I wonder if they need to be switched every so often?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My dosing lines are turning white using this ALK formula. Are you guys finding the same thing? I wonder if they need to be switched every so often?

Do you know what they are made of?

 

[gobble]

Do you know what they are made of?

Airline tubing. I tried the RODI type tubing with my BRS dosing pumps and have trouble getting a good seal and keeping air out of the lines.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Airline tubing. I tried the RODI type tubing with my BRS dosing pumps and have trouble getting a good seal and keeping air out of the lines.

Probably the plasticizers are coming out. If it gets too brittle, silicone would work. A short length of silicone between the doser and ro tubing may also work.