Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

[Myka]

I'm using Bubble Magus dosing containers and silicone airline tubing. These products are work well with the Sodium hydroxide.

 

[nanomania]

My recommendation is here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/n...h-higher-ph-boost.344500/page-10#post-4456604

8.3 grams of the strontium chloride hexahydrate per gallon. There's not going to be a perfect answer.

If i make your oldest 3part recipe , 500gm cacl in total of 1gal container, i add 8.3grams of strontium chloride hexahydrate. Thats correct?

Im planning on your older formula, as for some reason my mag depleats quickly, also want to keep it on a higher side as it will also help to keep algae in chk.

As per seachem Reef Adv Cal, they maintain a ratio of Cal:Mag:Sr at 100:5:0.1

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Seachem doesn't have enough strontium in that product to match demand with calcium.

 

[nanomania]

Seachem doesn't have enough strontium in that product to match demand with calcium.

So If i make your oldest 3part recipe which is 500gm cacl in total of 1gal container, should i add 8.3grams of strontium chloride hexahydrate as mentioned by you (8.3gms in 1gallong of water).

Thats correct?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So If i make your oldest 3part recipe which is 500gm cacl in total of 1gal container, should i add 8.3grams of strontium chloride hexahydrate as mentioned by you (8.3gms in 1gallong of water).

Thats correct?

That is what I suggested and I don't see a reason to think differently.

 

[nanomania]

That is what I suggested and I don't see a reason to think differently.

Great.. will be making one next week..

 

[nanomania]

Here is seachem reef adv cal ingredients
Isnt Sr and Mag a bit less then needed??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Strontium in that Seachem product is too low to match demand with calcium. It has a fixed ratio of Sr to Ca in calcium carbonate which will only vary with the Sr/Ca ratio in the water, and not so much by how it is deposited (which coral, abiotic, coralline algae, etc.).

Magnesium is more complicated. It varies with the way it is deposited, and is a lot more in coralline algae than in some corals.

For DIY, there are two reasons to add magnesium, but the incorporation rate involves a big assumption of how much is needed based on the exact organisms involved. IMO, Seachem is in tghe right ballpark for need #1 at 1 :0.05, but falls far short since it does not account for salinity changes (need #2).

1. Some magnesium is incorporated into calcium carbonate. I assumed an average ratio (by weight) of 1 for calcium and 0.065 for magnesium. Coralline can have a ratio as high as 1:0.12 . Some corals are far lower. This need for magnesium accounts for 1/3 of the magnesium I add to my recipe. Seachem uses a similar ratio to this part alone.

2. The second need for magnesium relates not to the incorporation into calcium carbonate, but the drop in magnesium when you readjust the salinity that is rising from the addition of sodium and chloride (and other counterions that are not consumed). This need for magnesium is BIGGER than the need for that incorporated. It is 2/3 of the total magnesium added to my recipe.

here's my discussion of the topic:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

After adding 594 grams of baking soda (1 gallon of Recipe #1), we will have added 163 grams of sodium. In natural seawater, magnesium is present at about 12.0% of the sodium concentration (by weight). In order to match the magnesium additions to the sodium additions to leave them in a natural ratio, we need to add 12% of 163 grams, or 19.5 grams, of magnesium for every gallon of the two-part additive that we add.

Additionally, we may want to account for magnesium that is actually incorporated into the coral skeletons. For this calculation, I have assumed that the amount of magnesium incorporated is about 6.5% of the calcium level (by weight), or about 2.5% of the skeleton by weight. In the course of adding this gallon of both parts of the two part supplement, we added 141 grams of calcium, so we need to add 0.065 x 141 = 9 grams of magnesium to account for this deposition.

The magnesium parts of the recipe are designed to add enough magnesium so that it is not depleted by either of the two means described above. Because the magnesium supplement (either version) is 47,000 mg/L in magnesium, we need to add (9 +19.5) grams/47 g/L = 610 ml of the magnesium solution for each gallon of the other parts of Recipe #1.

 

[nanomania]

Strontium in that Seachem product is too low to match demand with calcium. It has a fixed ratio of Sr to Ca in calcium carbonate which will only vary with the Sr/Ca ratio in the water, and not so much by how it is deposited (which coral, abiotic, coralline algae, etc.).

Magnesium is more complicated. It varies with the way it is deposited, and is a lot more in coralline algae than in some corals.

For DIY, there are two reasons to add magnesium, but the incorporation rate involves a big assumption of how much is needed based on the exact organisms involved. IMO, Seachem is in tghe right ballpark for need #1 at 1 :0.05, but falls far short since it does not account for salinity changes (need #2).

1. Some magnesium is incorporated into calcium carbonate. I assumed an average ratio (by weight) of 1 for calcium and 0.065 for magnesium. Coralline can have a ratio as high as 1:0.12 . Some corals are far lower. This need for magnesium accounts for 1/3 of the magnesium I add to my recipe. Seachem uses a similar ratio to this part alone.

2. The second need for magnesium relates not to the incorporation into calcium carbonate, but the drop in magnesium when you readjust the salinity that is rising from the addition of sodium and chloride (and other counterions that are not consumed). This need for magnesium is BIGGER than the need for that incorporated. It is 2/3 of the total magnesium added to my recipe.

here's my discussion of the topic:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

After adding 594 grams of baking soda (1 gallon of Recipe #1), we will have added 163 grams of sodium. In natural seawater, magnesium is present at about 12.0% of the sodium concentration (by weight). In order to match the magnesium additions to the sodium additions to leave them in a natural ratio, we need to add 12% of 163 grams, or 19.5 grams, of magnesium for every gallon of the two-part additive that we add.

Additionally, we may want to account for magnesium that is actually incorporated into the coral skeletons. For this calculation, I have assumed that the amount of magnesium incorporated is about 6.5% of the calcium level (by weight), or about 2.5% of the skeleton by weight. In the course of adding this gallon of both parts of the two part supplement, we added 141 grams of calcium, so we need to add 0.065 x 141 = 9 grams of magnesium to account for this deposition.

The magnesium parts of the recipe are designed to add enough magnesium so that it is not depleted by either of the two means described above. Because the magnesium supplement (either version) is 47,000 mg/L in magnesium, we need to add (9 +19.5) grams/47 g/L = 610 ml of the magnesium solution for each gallon of the other parts of Recipe #1.

Wow, that was so detailed.. thank you so much.

Here is the Final 3part recipe as per your advise:

Part 1
Calcium Chloride CaCl2 - 500grams
Strontium Chloride SrCl2.6H2O - 8.3 grams
In Total Volume of 1gallon (3.8liters) including the salts.

Part 2
Magnesium Chloride MgCl2.6H2O - 5cups (Each cup= 235ml)
Magnesium Sulphate MgSO4.7H2O - 3cups
In Total Volume of 1gallon (3.8liters) including the salts

Part 3
Sodium Carbonate Na2CO3 - 375grams
In Total Volume of 1gallon (3.8liters) including the salts

Is this perfect?

 

[nanomania]

Is the above 3part formula ok to go with? As iv made some changes as per ur suggestion.. @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The 500 grams calcium should be using the dihydrate form.

To be consistent with my dosing recommendations, the magnesium part is named part 3 and the alk part is named part 2.

Then it looks fine.

 

[nanomania]

The 500 grams calcium should be using the dihydrate form.

To be consistent with my dosing recommendations, the magnesium part is named part 3 and the alk part is named part 2.

Then it looks fine.

Yes, iv got calcium chloride dihydrate.. yes its 3part

1)Cal Sr
2)Mag
3)Alk

 

[WWIII]

Yes, iv got calcium chloride dihydrate.. yes its 3part

1)Cal Sr
2)Mag
3)Alk

I think he was saying...

1) calcium
2) alkalinity
3) magnesium

Just for continuity sake.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think he was saying...

1) calcium
2) alkalinity
3) magnesium

Just for continuity sake.

Right. It only matters if someone reads my directions referring to the parts by “name”, I just didn’t want any confusion on calculators and such. [emoji3]

 

[nanomania]

Right. It only matters if someone reads my directions referring to the parts by “name”, I just didn’t want any confusion on calculators and such. [emoji3]

What would be the total strontium ppm in the cal/sr part?

 

[Tmmste]

What would be the total strontium ppm in the cal/sr part?

It depends. In mole 1:50 according to balling. However I also notice some suggest 1:100. That would the be amount 'consumed'. apart from around 9ppm is removed per 1L aquariumwater for salinity corrections. The amount of water removed depends on amount of Na and CI added with the stocksolutions.. if I am not mistaken, 13% more water is removed with JimWelsh recipe if I would like to replace the same NSW values compared to Randy Holmes Recipe.

 

[nanomania]

It depends. In mole 1:50 according to balling. However I also notice some suggest 1:100. That would the be amount 'consumed'. apart from around 9ppm is removed per 1L aquariumwater for salinity corrections. The amount of water removed depends on amount of Na and CI added with the stocksolutions.. if I am not mistaken, 13% more water is removed with JimWelsh recipe if I would like to replace the same NSW values compared to Randy Holmes Recipe.

This is the recipe im talkong about:

Calcium Chloride CaCl2 - 500grams
Strontium Chloride SrCl2.6H2O - 8.3 grams
In Total Volume of 1gallon (3.8liters) including the salts.

That would come to howmany ppm for strontium?

 

[Tmmste]

This is the recipe im talkong about:

Calcium Chloride CaCl2 - 500grams
Strontium Chloride SrCl2.6H2O - 8.3 grams
In Total Volume of 1gallon (3.8liters) including the salts.

That would come to how many ppm for strontium?

1:100 mole ratio would be 1,81%
1:50 mole ratio would be 3,63%

Your calculation is 8,3 / 500 = 1,66%. That would be slightly more than 1:100.
Strontriumchloride hexahydrate is 32,8635% strontium = 0,328635 * 8,3 = 2,73 gr strontium x 1000 = 2727 ppm total = 0,0314 mole (0,9%)
(500 gr calciumchloride dihydrate is 500 /147 * 40 = 136 gr calcium is around 136000 ppm calcium = 3,4 mole (100%)
So you are around 1:108.

The amount of extra strontium chloride you need to add to compensate for the amount of water removed is very small just a few percents more (2,3 with 1:50 to 4,6% with 1:100).. so if 8,3 would be what is actually consumed.. it would be 8,3 * 1,046 = 8,7... not much.

(per 136 gr calciumchloride.. I would need to remove around 2,19l from my tank containing x amount of potassium... to compensatie for the rise in salinity.. this also includes the water removed via a skimmer etc etc.. if you would remove more or less would impact the amount of strontium you would need to add extra.. but it is just a very small amount anyway... potassium on the other hand has 44x more that would be a different story)

 

[nanomania]

1:100 mole ratio would be 1,81%
1:50 mole ratio would be 3,63%

Your calculation is 8,3 / 500 = 1,66%. That would be slightly more than 1:100.
Strontriumchloride hexahydrate is 32,8635% strontium = 0,328635 * 8,3 = 2,73 gr strontium x 1000 = 2727 ppm total = 0,0314 mole (0,9%)
(500 gr calciumchloride dihydrate is 500 /147 * 40 = 136 gr calcium is around 136000 ppm calcium = 3,4 mole (100%)
So you are around 1:108.

Wow.. thats was rrally in detail. Means strontium will be 2727ppm.
As per the article by @Randy Holmes-Farley the calcium solution will be 37000ppm (500gms in total of 1gallon)

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

 

[Tmmste]

Wow.. thats was rrally in detail. Means strontium will be 2727ppm.
As per the article by @Randy Holmes-Farley the calcium solution will be 37000ppm (500gms in total of 1gallon)

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

Yes it is not entirely accurate but you get the ideal.. 1 mole of calciumchloride dihydrate = 147,01456 gr. 1 mole calcium weighs 40,078gr.
500 / 147,01456 * 40,078 = 136306 ppm / 3,7854 = 36008 ppm per liter.


The info is right here: https://www.convertunits.com/molarmass/CaCl2.2H2O