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SkiCatTX
Sustainable Reefkeeping
Welcome! I need to get some bulbs and I'll test them out with the Apex in the next couple weeks.
SkiCat's Dream Build: [Saving The] Planet 180 - The Making Of An Epic Aquacultured Mixed Reef
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SkiCatTX
Sustainable Reefkeeping
For return pumps, I went back and forth between the Vectra M2s and VarioS-6 I think it was. I like the Vectra pumps, but I don't like that they cannot currently be controller from an Apex, or any other controller for that matter. There is no good way to synchronize things like feeding mode, or ramp the speed up or down based on sensor input. The best you can do is plug them into an Apex outlet, however, if you have them on battery backup, then even cutting the power will just send them into low power mode, not turn them off...
Still, I put more weight on the ability for these pumps to run for days on battery backup, something that the VarioS pumps don't support. I would have to hack something, or use a UPS, which would only give me a few hours at most. So in the end, I am going with the Vectras.
I have heard that the Hydros WaveEngine might at some point be able to control them, assuming they can break the security measures EcoTech have put on them, unlike the Vortec pumps, which are fully controllable...We'll see...If the Hydros WaveEngine could pass through 0-10v out from the Apex to control Vectras directly, they would sell a TON of WaveEngines...
I went ahead and got 4 batteries...1 for each Vectra (or maybe two in series on one of the Vectras), and one for each of at least 2 MP40s. I still need two converter cables to hook up the 36v Vectras to these 24v batteries though.
Still, I put more weight on the ability for these pumps to run for days on battery backup, something that the VarioS pumps don't support. I would have to hack something, or use a UPS, which would only give me a few hours at most. So in the end, I am going with the Vectras.
I have heard that the Hydros WaveEngine might at some point be able to control them, assuming they can break the security measures EcoTech have put on them, unlike the Vortec pumps, which are fully controllable...We'll see...If the Hydros WaveEngine could pass through 0-10v out from the Apex to control Vectras directly, they would sell a TON of WaveEngines...
I went ahead and got 4 batteries...1 for each Vectra (or maybe two in series on one of the Vectras), and one for each of at least 2 MP40s. I still need two converter cables to hook up the 36v Vectras to these 24v batteries though.
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SkiCatTX
Sustainable Reefkeeping
Next, there are the two Pentair 40w UVs. I originally wanted one 80w HO, however, in the CAD drawings I determined the 6.5" tubes would not easily fit inside the stand, so went with two 3.5" 40w tubes. These can either fit just in front of the sump, or possibly even vertically behind the tank. I figure I can either run them both at the slower rate for pest control, or possibly run one at a faster rate for both pest and algae control as needed.
They came in two boxes, but after removing the packing material, they both fit in the one box for storage until I'm ready to set them up. They are super heavy duty, thick plastic, probably even overkill for how they are mounted.
They came in two boxes, but after removing the packing material, they both fit in the one box for storage until I'm ready to set them up. They are super heavy duty, thick plastic, probably even overkill for how they are mounted.
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SkiCatTX
Sustainable Reefkeeping
Thanks, I am sure I will find this limiting, and frustrating at times, but I hope I can stick with it, and maybe bring some awareness of the issues along the way. It will also be interesting to see what diversity can be achieved even with today's still limited availability. I am starting to build my wish list now, and will share when the time gets closer to start stocking the tank.
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SkiCatTX
Sustainable Reefkeeping
Ah yes. When you have so many sources of wild caught nearby, I'm sure that makes it more difficult to make a profit on tank raised fish, so fewer people try to do it commercially right now. Also, it's just such a new thing, hopefully as more people start trying it, and get better at it, the costs will come down. It doesn't hurt for us to promote it as much as possible as well, so people are aware it's even an option... There might also be additional hurdles in general bringing non-South-Pacific fish into Australia, not sure.
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SkiCatTX
Sustainable Reefkeeping
The one other device I got during the sales last month was a Klir Di-7 Filter Roller.
I don't plan to run socks regularly, but I did put two 7" sock holders in the sump for when it is needed. The primary use for the Roller will be cleaning, when vacuuming the sand or rocks, sucking out algae or Dinos, or whatever. I hate trying to do this into buckets or a regular sock, as they fill up very quickly and I have to keep stopping and changing out the sock or emptying the bucket. This way I will just put the end of the hose into the roller in the sump and keep going, relying on the roller to move the fleece as needed...at least that's the theory, we'll see in practice.
I also verified with CoralVue that I have the larger 11 RPM motor, as the original had a smaller motor that in many cases was unable to move the fleece successfully and needed to be replaced. If you get the 7" model, be sure to check it has the larger motor, the only markings on it are 12v and 11 RPM, no model or serial number, at least not visible from outside the waterproof housing.
I don't plan to run socks regularly, but I did put two 7" sock holders in the sump for when it is needed. The primary use for the Roller will be cleaning, when vacuuming the sand or rocks, sucking out algae or Dinos, or whatever. I hate trying to do this into buckets or a regular sock, as they fill up very quickly and I have to keep stopping and changing out the sock or emptying the bucket. This way I will just put the end of the hose into the roller in the sump and keep going, relying on the roller to move the fleece as needed...at least that's the theory, we'll see in practice.
I also verified with CoralVue that I have the larger 11 RPM motor, as the original had a smaller motor that in many cases was unable to move the fleece successfully and needed to be replaced. If you get the 7" model, be sure to check it has the larger motor, the only markings on it are 12v and 11 RPM, no model or serial number, at least not visible from outside the waterproof housing.
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SkiCatTX
Sustainable Reefkeeping
Just got this pic from Jeff at LifeReef, my sump is finally crated up and hopefully will be on its way here soon from Colorado. It was supposed to ship out 3 weeks ago, but he's been busy, and with the tank delayed there was no real hurry.
Should be safe in there, right?
Should be safe in there, right?
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SkiCatTX
Sustainable Reefkeeping
Just got word that the tank is done and on the truck, should be here within the week or so...
The sump is also on the way and supposed to be here tomorrow, weather permitting!
The sump is also on the way and supposed to be here tomorrow, weather permitting!
GlassMunky
2500 Club Member
Hooray!!!!
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SkiCatTX
Sustainable Reefkeeping
Yes, I am excited, but I'm so stressed that I will have to send it back for some stupid reason, then wait another month or two for it again... that's my luck anyway... here's hoping it's awesome and can be delivered soon!
GlassMunky
2500 Club Member
Just be sure to open the crate and inspect the tank BEFORE you sign for it. FedEx tried telling us we couldn’t open before we signed, because they knew they damaged my stand. But if you sign it first then the damage is on you and not them.
YAY! Let's see the sump!
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SkiCatTX
Sustainable Reefkeeping
The tank will be delivered directly to the LFS and they will verify, then I will go check it out, if it's not perfect i won't pay the remaining amount on it... Fingers crossed all will be well...
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SkiCatTX
Sustainable Reefkeeping
I went and picked up the stand and sump from the LFS warehouse. No damage, but there are a few issues with both. I'm still considering if I am going to be able to work around these, or if it's a show stopper, at least with the stand.
Sump out of the crate, still wrapped up
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SkiCatTX
Sustainable Reefkeeping
There are two major problems with the stand. First, it was supposed to be 59" x 29.5" so that once I wrap the stand with 3/4" wood facing and doors, the framing would only extend 1/4" from the glass on all sides. I would then route an inch or two skirt up over the bottom of the tank to cover the grey PVC bottom and a bit of sand. Instead, it is 59.5" x 29.5", which means the wood on the sides will stick out 1/4" farther than the wood on the front...unless I do something clever like use 1/2" wood on the sides...or set the tank back 1/4" and route 1/2" around the bottom of the tank...
I was about to just let it go when I discovered the second problem...I had originally designed the stand so that the center vertical support in the back was offset to the left so that the sump could sit farther back near the wall, giving me more room in front. However, despite signing off on their drawings (which were correct), AGE did not follow their drawings and seemly just put the rear support offset, but at no particular location, about a foot to the right of where it was supposed to be. So, just standing back and looking at the stand in the wherehouse it seemed fine, but once I put in the sump, and laid out the pump and gate valve, it is clear it isn't going to work...
There is no way I can work it so that I can offset the sump and put it in the correct space, and still install my external Vectra M2 pumps correctly. Also, now that the support is offset, even if I put the sump under the stand, the drain bulkheads are now behind the support...so I will have to route the pipes around it.
After playing around with different scenarios, I believe I can make it work if I don't use the gate valves and just attach the pumps directly at the bulkhead (which will make servicing a pain since I'll have to remove all water from the return section first), and shift the sump a few inches to the right (from the front). It still won't fit through the back, but at least I can work the drain pipes around it.
The alternative is to send it back and wait for another stand to be built...which with the holidays already here, is likely to not happen until January, and then who knows how long it would take to get back on the schedule...assuming they don't argue for a while first...though since the measurements clearly don't match THEIR drawings, I don't expect an issue in the end...
I was about to just let it go when I discovered the second problem...I had originally designed the stand so that the center vertical support in the back was offset to the left so that the sump could sit farther back near the wall, giving me more room in front. However, despite signing off on their drawings (which were correct), AGE did not follow their drawings and seemly just put the rear support offset, but at no particular location, about a foot to the right of where it was supposed to be. So, just standing back and looking at the stand in the wherehouse it seemed fine, but once I put in the sump, and laid out the pump and gate valve, it is clear it isn't going to work...
There is no way I can work it so that I can offset the sump and put it in the correct space, and still install my external Vectra M2 pumps correctly. Also, now that the support is offset, even if I put the sump under the stand, the drain bulkheads are now behind the support...so I will have to route the pipes around it.
After playing around with different scenarios, I believe I can make it work if I don't use the gate valves and just attach the pumps directly at the bulkhead (which will make servicing a pain since I'll have to remove all water from the return section first), and shift the sump a few inches to the right (from the front). It still won't fit through the back, but at least I can work the drain pipes around it.
The alternative is to send it back and wait for another stand to be built...which with the holidays already here, is likely to not happen until January, and then who knows how long it would take to get back on the schedule...assuming they don't argue for a while first...though since the measurements clearly don't match THEIR drawings, I don't expect an issue in the end...
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SkiCatTX
Sustainable Reefkeeping
The "problem" with the sump is more of a usability issue, and it's kind of my own fault. I designed the whole thing in CAD, and have 3D drawings of everything, including the sump inside the stand...however, no amount of "flying" around in 3D really gives you the full picture of how something is working to work in real life (VR would have been awesome for this...).
Here is a work in progress image of the CAD. In hindsight it is pretty obvious here already, I just wasn't really thinking about it.
The sump is TOO TALL for the stand! I mean, it fits just fine, but getting in and out of it, and servicing things like the skimmer are going to be a pain.
The sump is 18" tall, most sumps, at least ones meant to go under the tank, even larger ones, top out at about 16" tall. However, when planning this one, I wanted more water volume for the front refugium section. Since I needed it to be below the sock holder in order to control flow, I raised everything up 2". That was a mistake. I guess I'll have live with it, at least until it's time to upgrade to a new sump at some point. I mean, it's not too bad, but a bit tight.
One additional possibility is that I can replace the 1" plywood bottom they supplied with a 1/2" piece, maybe reinforced if needed, which would get me another 1/2". Not sure if that's worth it...
I tested it and I'm able to get the Klir Di-7 in and out just fine as long as I fold it over first. And the Aeraqua Duo Skimmer does fit, and I'm able to get it out, but the skimmer cup is going to be a bit of a pain to remove regularly from the back section, and I'll have to drill a hole for the skimmer drain hose if I want to use that. I can't really raise it much more or it will be too far out of the water.
In fact, this might be a justification for keeping the stand...the back chamber is about 6" closer to the front of the stand than it would have been, and just that much 'easier' to service...
I did make certain that I can get the sump in and out of the stand through the front doors. Once it is in place, there won't be enough room on either side of the tank to remove it through the side doors, so that's a relief. I don't want to EVER remove it, but it's likely I'll need to get it out for some reason down the line...
Here is a work in progress image of the CAD. In hindsight it is pretty obvious here already, I just wasn't really thinking about it.
The sump is TOO TALL for the stand! I mean, it fits just fine, but getting in and out of it, and servicing things like the skimmer are going to be a pain.
The sump is 18" tall, most sumps, at least ones meant to go under the tank, even larger ones, top out at about 16" tall. However, when planning this one, I wanted more water volume for the front refugium section. Since I needed it to be below the sock holder in order to control flow, I raised everything up 2". That was a mistake. I guess I'll have live with it, at least until it's time to upgrade to a new sump at some point. I mean, it's not too bad, but a bit tight.
One additional possibility is that I can replace the 1" plywood bottom they supplied with a 1/2" piece, maybe reinforced if needed, which would get me another 1/2". Not sure if that's worth it...
I tested it and I'm able to get the Klir Di-7 in and out just fine as long as I fold it over first. And the Aeraqua Duo Skimmer does fit, and I'm able to get it out, but the skimmer cup is going to be a bit of a pain to remove regularly from the back section, and I'll have to drill a hole for the skimmer drain hose if I want to use that. I can't really raise it much more or it will be too far out of the water.
In fact, this might be a justification for keeping the stand...the back chamber is about 6" closer to the front of the stand than it would have been, and just that much 'easier' to service...
I did make certain that I can get the sump in and out of the stand through the front doors. Once it is in place, there won't be enough room on either side of the tank to remove it through the side doors, so that's a relief. I don't want to EVER remove it, but it's likely I'll need to get it out for some reason down the line...
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