Tang warfare

[the.introvertebrate]

Hi Guys/Girls,

My tank is a 130.4 Waterbox, all paramaters are fine (I check regularly) and fish/corals are all for the most part healthy and happy.

The issue i'm having is to do with my tangs and aggression towards one another. I started with:
1 yellow tang,
2 clowns and a bunch of anthias (4 died one after the other due to fighting/not eating)
and after about 1-2 months added a coral beauty and flame angel.

After adding the CB + FA the Y.Tang immediately began harassing and bully them both. Unfortunately the CB copped the brunt of it and ended up dying from being harassed so much, it developed swim bladder disease and refused to eat, as a last ditch attempt I put the CB in an acclimation box to protect it but no luck.

LFS advised I needed more fish in the tank, So I introduced 7 damsels (babies), 1 medium sized Sailfin and 1 medium/large sized Lipstick tang.

The Y.Tang immediately began harassing the Lipstick and Sailfin, I tried to use a mirror to distract him and it worked for about 1-2hours with the Y.Tang constantly fighting itself before losing the plot and began dashing around the tank bashing into everyone causing havoc.

I couldn't risk stressing out the new comers so I removed all my rock work to be able to catch the Y.Tang and put him in the sump.

With the Y.Tang now in the sump all other fish in the DT are happy and calm. I am scared to re-introduce the Y.Tang because if he goes aggro or the others aggro him I don't want to have to take out all the rock again to catch the bullies...

QUESTIONS:
What do I need to do in order to keep the peace?
How long do I wait before I try to re-introduce the Y.Tang?
Should I use an acclimation box? If so how long do I keep using the box?
Should I add another 1-2 fish with the Y.Tang so its less likely to bully/get bullied?
I was thinking of getting an emperor angel fish and maybe a trigger fish or wrass are these good or bad ideas?

I don't want to leave it too long before i re-introduce the Y.Tang because I worry the lipstick/sailfin will get comfortable and become the new tank bullies.

Please help!

 

[redfishbluefish]

Any time you mix Zebrasomas, it's a crap shoot. I'd also consider re-homing the Sailfin....those guys get real big, and no way will be comfortable in a 130, four foot tank. So I'd immediately get rid of the Sailfin...sell it or return to your LFS.

Longer term, I'd also re-home the Naso (Lipstick) tang. They also get quite big and need room....length....to swim.

Also, best of luck with seven damsels. You didn't mention the types, but they are also considered an aggressive fish.

So I'd now question the advice you're getting from your LFS.

 

[the.introvertebrate]

Any time you mix Zebrasomas, it's a crap shoot. I'd also consider re-homing the Sailfin....those guys get real big, and no way will be comfortable in a 130, four foot tank. So I'd immediately get rid of the Sailfin...sell it or return to your LFS.

Longer term, I'd also re-home the Naso (Lipstick) tang. They also get quite big and need room....length....to swim.

Also, best of luck with seven damsels. You didn't mention the types, but they are also considered an aggressive fish.

So I'd now question the advice you're getting from your LFS.

The damsels i have are small blue ones with a yellow tail, I was told due to their size they wouldn't be an issue? they are all about 1.5-3cm long.

I'd love to keep the Naso if possible, my wife has taken a real liking to it I will see if the LFS will take back the sailfin. Is there a recommended way to transport them?

 

[Sean Duggan]

I would say take back the yellow tang because of the aggression issue. Some fish are just jerks. The sail fin and the blonde Naso could stay but you have to remember you’re renting the fish. Eventually it will be too big and have to be taken to someone with a bigger tank. I have a 5’ long Red Sea reefer got blonde Naso tang I new I would only have for 1-2 years. Got him in September about 2.5 inches long. In 4 months he grew about an inch and this last Thursday decided to try to kill every tank inhabitant. He was only 3.5 inches in a 5’ tank when he decided the tank was his. Had to tear everything apart to get him. He may be sweet and nice now but in a day’s time and he can decide the tanks his and try to off everyone. Just something to keep in mind. If you really wanted to keep one of the tangs I would recommend choosing either the blonde Naso or sail fin, both I feel like could lead to problems

 

[the.introvertebrate]

Wish my LFS told me this before just handing me a bunch of non-compatible fish to try and stop my aggressive yellow tang. Especially knowing i'm new to the hobby and have spent close to $11,000 AUD with them I expect better... Thanks for the advice, time for a new LFS I think.

 

[mcbdz]

Wish my LFS told me this before just handing me a bunch of non-compatible fish to try and stop my aggressive yellow tang. Especially knowing i'm new to the hobby and have spent close to $11,000 AUD with them I expect better... Thanks for the advice, time for a new LFS I think.

You have now found the right place to come and ask questions and research your choices. Never fully trust a LFS. They need to make money and will tell you whatever you want to here to make a sale. Then when your fish dies or gets sick they sale you more. Take a pause and read on here for a little while.

 

[the.introvertebrate]

You have now found the right place to come and ask questions and research your choices. Never fully trust a LFS. They need to make money and will tell you whatever you want to here to make a sale. Then when your fish dies or gets sick they sale you more. Take a pause and read on here for a little while.

This is true. I did genuinely think they would have my best interest at heart as well though given my loyalty and spend with them. $11k is not pocket change and i've literally only ever bought from them. Anyway good to know i've got a more reliable source of information I can turn to for quicker responses. I tried reddit but there isn't anywhere near as many helpful folk on there, mostly just a showcase of tanks.

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Terri Caton]

Yellow Tangs are aggressive buggers. Mine was pretty mean to a Copperband Butterfly I added but that only lasted a day or so. Must have lucked out on that one. I was going to try the mirror trick but didn’t have to.

 

[Terri Caton]

I would say take back the yellow tang because of the aggression issue. Some fish are just jerks. The sail fin and the blonde Naso could stay but you have to remember you’re renting the fish. Eventually it will be too big and have to be taken to someone with a bigger tank. I have a 5’ long Red Sea reefer got blonde Naso tang I new I would only have for 1-2 years. Got him in September about 2.5 inches long. In 4 months he grew about an inch and this last Thursday decided to try to kill every tank inhabitant. He was only 3.5 inches in a 5’ tank when he decided the tank was his. Had to tear everything apart to get him. He may be sweet and nice now but in a day’s time and he can decide the tanks his and try to off everyone. Just something to keep in mind. If you really wanted to keep one of the tangs I would recommend choosing either the blonde Naso or sail fin, both I feel like could lead to problems

We must have the same tank. I feel kind of bad for my Powder Brown sometimes because he likes to swim very fast and has to turn around in about 2 seconds. But he’s super peaceful.

My biggest bully Tang is the Purple.

 

[Aldemirgen]

This is true. I did genuinely think they would have my best interest at heart as well though given my loyalty and spend with them. $11k is not pocket change and i've literally only ever bought from them. Anyway good to know i've got a more reliable source of information I can turn to for quicker responses. I tried reddit but there isn't anywhere near as many helpful folk on there, mostly just a showcase of tanks.

Thanks for all the replies.

I did have same problem with my LFS i even get custom tank from them and spend only with them with trust but after i have some problems and look around r2r i understand they just charge me with lot of useless stuff and give wrong info to sell product or livestock they have. it is really sad i know they need to earn money but wish they could do with right way i didn't even check price etc when buying with them. but like you said i change my LFS and they are really helpfull and they dont try to sell they try to help so i am happy for now. hope you will find helpful and honest LFS too

 

[ca1ore]

As others have noted, zebrasoma tangs can be quite aggressive, and that aggression is exacerbated when they are crowded. Both the sailfin and Naso get large (you don’t say how large they are already) and a poor recommendation for a four foot tank. I see nothing wrong with asking your LFS for advice, I just wouldn’t use them as your sole resource. You’ll get bad recommendations occasionally here as well.

As to the damsels, chyrisiptera genus like the common yellow tail are on the less aggressive end. Some, like me, like them and keep a large group, others have a bad experience. Lots of factors dictate one versus the other.

 

[mcbdz]

I did have same problem with my LFS i even get custom tank from them and spend only with them with trust but after i have some problems and look around r2r i understand they just charge me with lot of useless stuff and give wrong info to sell product or livestock they have. it is really sad i know they need to earn money but wish they could do with right way i didn't even check price etc when buying with them. but like you said i change my LFS and they are really helpfull and they dont try to sell they try to help so i am happy for now. hope you will find helpful and honest LFS too

I still use all my LFSs first before buying from other places. I try to support them and keep them open but, always research first. They may just not always have someone that knows as much. It isn't that they try to screw you over. Sometimes they mean well. Like more tangs usually will disperse the aggression and help butdepends on the size of the tank and if you had one alone then adding to is usually causes issues. Every situation is different so good to research first then you know your risks going in. We all still endup having some kind of issues and that is were we learn what can and will happen and ways to help from each other. Now I'm rambling. HAHA!

 

[artieg1]

In defense of the LFS, tangs can be unpredictable. And any tang we buy in the hobby is almost certainly a juvenile, so it will be growing and adapting and going through adolescence, and territoriality could creep in any time, even after a period of calm.

 

[Kzang]

The damsels i have are small blue ones with a yellow tail, I was told due to their size they wouldn't be an issue? they are all about 1.5-3cm long.

I'd love to keep the Naso if possible, my wife has taken a real liking to it I will see if the LFS will take back the sailfin. Is there a recommended way to transport them?

You realize the naso tangs get like a foot and half big, right?

 

[the.introvertebrate]

You realize the naso tangs get like a foot and half big, right?

I know this now, I will keep it for a month or so until LFS open up again for trading after Xmas so I can get store credit or do a swap/sell. Any suggestions for a nice replacement fish? I'm a fan of unique and colourful looking fish who are peaceful and won't attack corals

 

[Sean Duggan]

What do you currently have in your tank for fish and what are you keeping.

 

[the.introvertebrate]

What do you currently have in your tank for fish and what are you keeping.

Currently have 2 clowns (black/white and orange/white) a yellow tang (in the sump for time out due to aggression), a Lyretail Anthia (had 6 but died one by one) a flame angel 7 blue/yellow tail damsels a naso tang and a sailfin.

I would like to keep as many as I can but understand sacrifice has to be made to establish a more suitable set of fish.

Thinking I'll replace the naso and sailfin and keep the yellow tang (he was one of my first fish). I would love an emperor angelfish, or a bi-colour angel, maybe a wrass of some kind or a copperband but I don't know anymore if they'll do well on my tank or if they will get bullied/be bullies or outgrow it.

I'm also worried about fish eating coral since I've now started to get more and more coral

 

[Sean Duggan]

Tangs should be typically added last so that way they’re going into a new territory with fish. That way a new fish isn’t coming into their territory. That’s probably partly why yours became so aggressive to you flame angel and coral beauty. I personally would rehome all the tangs(I don’t think a fish deserves to live in the sump for weeks on end) and while you’re at it grab some of the blue yellow damsels. They are the more peaceful of the damsels but have read once they pair up and mark their territory they can be jerks.

As for new fish the emperor angelfish is out of the question because of their size. A bi color could probably go in your tank but angel fish in general have been known as corral nippers. You should look into Midas blenny they’re pretty cool. Nicely colored unique and interesting personality. Many reef safe wrasses. Could look into the different types of flasher and fiary wrasses. I have a marble wrasse but he was a dick to my clowns. Rabbit fish are pretty cool, I have a magnificent rabbit fish and he’s awesome. Rabbitfish I’ve heard can be 50/50 for aggression and coral. I’ve never had any problem with mine being aggressive or coral nipping. But one of my friends Rabbitfish has to be kept in an sps only tank because it took a liking to softies and lps. Do some research on fish though and see what you like. Any questions on anything just post in one of the forums on here.

 

[Marco S]

I have 5 Tangs in a 6' 160 gallon tank and the only way I was able to deal with the aggression is to overfeed them and keep them fat, happy and way less aggressive. I have a slightly over sized skimmer and have not noticed any increase in Nitrate or Phosphate at all and all my fish seem much happier eating large meals 2-3 times daily with seaweed on a clip at all times.

As far a fish recommendations, I would definitely try again with some Anthias and every reef tank needs a couple Bangaii Cardinals and or some PJ Cardinals as well as a Foxface Rabbitfish IMO. I also have a Splendid Dottyback and a Neon Dottyback that are my personal favorites for smaller fish. They are pretty shy, but when it comes to feeding they will take food from my largest Tang and run for dear life. ;Happy

On a side note: How often were you feeding your Anthias that died? I have read that they need to eat multiple times a day and often die because they are not getting enough food. I have three Bartletts Anthias and I feed them three times a day and they are happy and healthy. I lucked out with the fact that they eat anything I give them because I have also heard that they are picky eaters. One thing to make sure of when getting new fish is to make sure you see them fed at the store and they are eating well.

 

[Jon Fishman]

I only have 5 fish. When I added a tang (my only tang) she harassed the only large fish in the tank, and left the others alone. Feeding heavy/often has worked for me.