The DSR Method (Dutch Synthetic Reefing)

[glennf]

Your thoughts on ATS?

I haven't seen a full SPS tank yet running pure on ATS for a long stretch of time.

In DSR is not very usefull, especially because i dose po4 and No3. Any algea filtering will interfere with these kind of control mechanism.

 

[glennf]

Thanks glenn.
On your "DSR Technical requirements:" page you recommend using UV. On your History page http://dsrreefing.com/history/ you list UV, ozone & a zeolite reactor as part of your technique. Which of these three tools (if any) do you believe are imperative for a successful 'no regular water change' system, specifically ?

None....
Zeolite reactor was removed in 2015.
UV and Ozone is to prevent itch outbreak.

 

[David Cher]

is it useful to leave the zeolite in the system ?

 

[David Cher]

if i am getting P;o4 =0 and no3 is 5ppm . what should i dose DSR ? is it PO4+ and CarbonVS instead of getting DSR EZ-Carbon ?

 

[ksed]

I haven't seen a full SPS tank yet running pure on ATS for a long stretch of time.

In DSR is not very usefull, especially because i dose po4 and No3. Any algea filtering will interfere with these kind of control mechanism.

Thanks Glenn,
The reason I ask is because in the Triton method, algae seems like chaeto in particular is one of there primary filtration components among others?

 

[glennf]

is it useful to leave the zeolite in the system ?

Extra biomass is always fine, but when it become a drag to maintain i would remove it.
Especially when you need to add nutrients continuously to keep up the target levels.

 

[glennf]

if i am getting P;o4 =0 and no3 is 5ppm . what should i dose DSR ? is it PO4+ and CarbonVS instead of getting DSR EZ-Carbon ?

CarbonVS grows bacteria and removes mainly NO3 and a small portion PO4
You need PO4 to grow bacteria, so when PO4 is 0,00 you need to level op PO4.

EZCarbon is multi functional and removes NO3+PO4 but also serves as FeTrace element.

When NO3 is very high, (25ppm up) and rising due to low (0,00) PO4, (unbalanced) it is better to use CarbonVS combined with minimal FeTrace dosings

When Both NO3/PO4 are elevated EZCarbon will do just fine.

 

[laverda]

What Iron Product, Strontium product are you using to dose? Have you had the need to dose No3 and Po4 yet?

I don't recall the first iron product I used, I think it was Kent iron. I was dosing 6ml daily right in front of my overflow. Currently using 6ml Brightwell Ferrion but every 2-3 days now and dosing 30ml Kent Strontium & Molybdenum once a week on my 350 gallon or so total volume. I really need to get everything on dosing pumps so it is more consistent. I have not dosed any nitrate or phosphate, although it looks like I will need to. I was thinking of removing one of my 2 filter socks(the one with less flow), which I change weekly. I am using roughly 50% ozone and my skimmer gets thick dark skimmate.

 

[laverda]

Glad it helped you on your reefing journey.

Many reefer think more/expensive is better.

Sometimes less is more.....

Look in here for essential technics for my method.
www.DSRreefing.com/technics

Thanks Glenn
I definitely don't miss doing water changes! Although they are much easier to do on my new set up. My tank still has a long way to go to look like yours does.

 

[laverda]

What Iron Product, Strontium product are you using to dose? Have you had the need to dose No3 and Po4 yet?

Are you dosing nitrate & Po4? If so what do you use? It looks like something I am going to have to learn more about, although I have increased my feedings some and will be adding 5 more fish when done QT.

 

[TbyZ]

Are you dosing nitrate & Po4? If so what do you use? It looks like something I am going to have to learn more about, although I have increased my feedings some and will be adding 5 more fish when done QT.

Monopotassium phosphate
&
Potassium nitrate, for example.

Powders mixed with RODI.

This is an easy to use calculator to work out how much to dose
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

 

[laverda]

Monopotassium phosphate
&
Potassium nitrate, for example.

Powders mixed with RODI.

This is an easy to use calculator to work out how much to dose
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

Thanks. I will have to try the calculator on my laptop, as it did not work on my stupid iPad.

 

[naecO rM]

The DSR method is my way of running a full occupied mixed reef tank without water changes.
i developed this method myself beginning of 2012, after running my tank since 2004 without any water change.
This was due to my goal to put down a full mixed reef with SPS/LPS/ and Softcorals in one habitat, something few people said to be impossible.

Features:
- experimental method and use is at your own risk. (experiment has been running from jan2012)
- compose your own salt.
- No more regular water change.
- water parameter corrections possible ( getting rid off imbalances in salt water including NaCl, Kh, Ca, Mg).
- Control of 12 values by known basic substances.
- DSR Calculator that calculates the dosage of all substances.
- Stable values by measurement and continuous corrections
- more economical as the aquarium gets bigger.
- By periodic measurements more understanding about the status of your tank.
- Ability to add other trace elements outside the DSR elements.
- Instant start (stop WC, measure a Correct using DSR elements and procedures)
- Instant stop (do aWC and stop DSR specific procedures)
In all, the DSR program contains 14 substances, eleven are measured.

The substances and test sets used:
1- Salinity: Milwauke Refracto metres (Pure NaCl Salt)
2- KH: Salifert (sodium bicarbonate)
3- Calcium: Salifert (Calcium Chloride)
4- Magnesium: Salifert (Magnesium Chloride)
5- (Magnesium sulfate) only used when mixing new water uses
6- Potassium: Redsea Potasium test ReefCare (Potassium Chloride)
7- Strontium: Salifert (Strontium solution)
8- Boron: Salifert Borium (Boron solution)
9- Iodide: Salifert I (Iodide Solution)
10- phosphate: Redsea Reefcare PO4 test. (Phosphate solution)
11- Nitrate: Salifert NO3 (nitrate solution)
12- iron: Sera Fe (iron citrate solution) – also used as PO4 reducer!
13- reduce Nitrate: (Carbon-vinegar/sugar solution)
14- for healthy buttons: (Amino/VitamineC solution)
You need the test set and the raw materials.

A dosing device is not necessary, but makes life easier. I use a 4 channel dosing pump and sometimes if necessary I have 2 extra channels added.
The latest DSR calculator can be downloaded here.
http://dsrreefing.nl/images/DSR_Calc_Eng_Dutch.zip

movie about the functions of the DSR calculator


In the calculator you have two choices:
- compose a new batch custom salt water
- measuring and correct parameters with the calculated quantities

An iron solution is used primary to reduce Phosphate, and secondary works as nitrate reducer. It also serves as a trace element.
There is a carbon source (Carbon) used in the form of vinegar/sugar to reduce nitrate.

The DSR method is an all-In Solution. You can manipulate 11 water parameter values in both positive and negatives values.
Essential minerals, trace elements and nutrients/pollutions are being monitored and controlled. For this reason water changes are not necessary anymore.
Remember you just can’t stop WC without substituting this for another way to topup minerals and control you water parameters.

Thank you for the information sharing .
Here is a list of how keep and what test to be used for micro and macro elements. Could you please explain a little bit more about the filtration, how its organized ?
I know you are using Ozon, Uv, Zeolit reactor, power filter,but what is your maintenance of your system? How often Zeolit is changed, how much UV is working, what is the best way of power filter an so?
I thnik that is important too and very important how the filtration is working with noWC.
Thank you.

 

[TbyZ]

Thank you for the information sharing .
Here is a list of how keep and what test to be used for micro and macro elements. Could you please explain a little bit more about the filtration, how its organized ?
I know you are using Ozon, Uv, Zeolit reactor, power filter,but what is your maintenance of your system? How often Zeolit is changed, how much UV is working, what is the best way of power filter an so?
I thnik that is important too and very important how the filtration is working with noWC.
Thank you.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-dsr-method-dutch-synthetic-reefing.162872/page-26#post-4117616

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Glenn, you mention the requirement to use a power filter. If you were to dose iron without using a power filter, will the reacted "dust" in the water column still be registered on a PO4 test? Just curious if the lack of an export mechanism can throw off future tests.

Dennis

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Glenn, you mention the requirement to use a power filter. If you were to dose iron without using a power filter, will the reacted "dust" in the water column still be registered on a PO4 test? Just curious if the lack of an export mechanism can throw off future tests.

Dennis

IMO, there is concern that precipitated iron phosphate (or a mixed iron phosphate/hydroxide solid particle that is most likely to form) may dissolve in a phosphate test and become detectable phosphate.

However, I'm not sure how likely it is to remain suspended for long after forming, so I do not know if anyone needs to worry about this or not.

 

[glennf]

Thank you for the information sharing .
Here is a list of how keep and what test to be used for micro and macro elements. Could you please explain a little bit more about the filtration, how its organized ?
I know you are using Ozon, Uv, Zeolit reactor, power filter,but what is your maintenance of your system? How often Zeolit is changed, how much UV is working, what is the best way of power filter an so?
I thnik that is important too and very important how the filtration is working with noWC.
Thank you.

Ozon 300mg on controller set to 350mv
UV18watt on overfow bypass.
Both against parasites and diseases which affect fish health.

Filterwool in Powerfilter is replaced every 2-4 days.
Skimmercup cleaned once a week

No more use of zeolites since 2015...

 

[glennf]

Glenn, you mention the requirement to use a power filter. If you were to dose iron without using a power filter, will the reacted "dust" in the water column still be registered on a PO4 test? Just curious if the lack of an export mechanism can throw off future tests.

Dennis

Don't

Powerfiltering is fundamental to the method.
www.DSRreefing.com/powerfilter

The particle bound will not be measured,
unless you stir up the sandbed before taking samples

 

[glennf]

IMO, there is concern that precipitated iron phosphate (or a mixed iron phosphate/hydroxide solid particle that is most likely to form) may dissolve in a phosphate test and become detectable phosphate.

However, I'm not sure how likely it is to remain suspended for long after forming, so I do not know if anyone needs to worry about this or not.

Unless you stir up the sandbed before sampling, no need to worry about it affecting test results

A well functioning powerfilter remove all small particles and even coloring of the water.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Don't

Powerfiltering is fundamental to the method.
www.DSRreefing.com/powerfilter

The particle bound will not be measured,
unless you stir up the sandbed before taking samples

Thanks Glenn. One other question, any issues with snail mortality from ingesting Iron Phosphate? Another poster in a different thread had brought up the possibility and when I looked into it, snails are very sensitive to iron phosphate (if they ingest some). I am just wondering if we are talking about different orders of magnitude? Have you noticed any issues with snails?

Dennis