Under Gravel Filter

[Paul B]

I just searched for UG filters and Reverse UG filters on here and didn't get any hits, so I guess, I am the only one using one of these things.
State of the art in the early seventees.:squigglemouth:

 

[fenderguy1]

I have one on a tank i just took down:crossedlips: It worked great for me for the past 4 years.

 

[Paul B]

If set up correctly, they work forever

 

[Troylee]

i have been contemplating the whole idea of using one again... it's gotta help keep that sand bed clean if you do your part by gravel vac etc...

 

[clowns101]

I no longer have a sand bed so I can use one.

 

[drainbamage]

I'm no hater of UG, I just don't see the use of one in a reef. Restriction on sand size means you can't use the finer sand that I've always found hosts the micro-organisms a little better. And sure a RUG will help prevent debris build up in the sand itself (unless you're gravel vaccing, but I prefer not gravel vaccing in a reef) but I'm not sure if there's a direct need for the added aerobic bacterial population it'll provide. In a typical reef the live rock performs the job of hosting sufficient bacteria, at the least when a sufficient amount of flow is provided.
Not trying to knock your tank, obviously it's been running for awhile, just discussing the use of them in general for reef tanks. Is there something in particular that makes you continue to run one?

 

[Harry_Y]

I wish I still had one, I had one in the 80s

I've considered using one again, if nothing
else it would seep the sand bed cleaner.

 

[Paul B]

Is there something in particular that makes you continue to run one?

There are a few reasons I will always run a RUGF. First of all it has been running for about 35 years with almost no maintenance.
I find that microscope animals prefer to live in a substrait that has water running through it as the gravel is full of tube worms right down to the filter plates. It is almost impossable to crash the tank. The power has gone off twice for almost a week with no problems and I once had 24 local NY urchins all spawn at the same time, the water looked like Half and Half. Nothing happened. I had a huge carpet anemone die and rot while I was away and nothing happened.
I can re aquascape and disturb the gravel all I want and I can maintain the tank by stirring the gravel where I can reach every couple of years and sucking out the detritus. Only once after the first 25 years I did a good cleaning by moving the rocks to one side and stirring up the gravel.
The tank has never been emptied or crashed.
I have yet to find a DSB much more than 10 years old.
Do you know of any? I would be curious.
Have a great day.
Paul

 

[drainbamage]

There are a few reasons I will always run a RUGF. First of all it has been running for about 35 years with almost no maintenance.
I find that microscope animals prefer to live in a substrait that has water running through it as the gravel is full of tube worms right down to the filter plates. It is almost impossable to crash the tank. The power has gone off twice for almost a week with no problems and I once had 24 local NY urchins all spawn at the same time, the water looked like Half and Half. Nothing happened. I had a huge carpet anemone die and rot while I was away and nothing happened.
I can re aquascape and disturb the gravel all I want and I can maintain the tank by stirring the gravel where I can reach every couple of years and sucking out the detritus. Only once after the first 25 years I did a good cleaning by moving the rocks to one side and stirring up the gravel.
The tank has never been emptied or crashed.
I have yet to find a DSB much more than 10 years old.
Do you know of any? I would be curious.
Have a great day.
Paul

Nah, don't know of any DSB's that old, mostly though I would attribute that to most people not keeping a tank up that long-not to mention the "tech" of DSB's and plenums hasn't been around for that long. Does Jaubert still have his plenum system running? If so that'd be a 15+ year old system that doesn't even use live rock.

 

[Paul B]

Deep sand beds have been around much longer than ten years but for some reason, they crash before ten years. Nothing lasts that can not be maintained.

 

[Speg]

Deep sand beds have been around much longer than ten years but for some reason, they crash before ten years. Nothing lasts that can not be maintained.

I haven't quite hit the 10 year mark, but I haven't witnessed a crash...and no clue why I would. I have lots of crazy stuff roaming through my sand bed.

 

[drainbamage]

Deep sand beds have been around much longer than ten years but for some reason, they crash before ten years. Nothing lasts that can not be maintained.

Not sure what you mean about "nothing lasts that can not be maintained," at least since you say your RUG never needs to be maintained?

I've seen some very succesful DSB's, and considering how succesful they were, have no doubts that they'd continue to work just fine, though I admit I haven't seen one I know to be 10 years old. Which ones have you seen crash? when they crash, what sort of crash do you mean?

Also, what sort of tank do you maintain in the RUG tank? SPS dominate, low-light, lps? Would be curious if this is notably helpful to certain styles of tanks as other styles (such as ULNS) are better for other tank setups.

 

[Paul B]

at least since you say your RUG never needs to be maintained?

Drainbamage, I didn't say that my RUGF is "never" maintained, I said it takes almost no maintenance. If I did not maintain it, it would crash asd id did the first few years when I ran it like a conventional UG filter. It took me years to figure out how to make it last "almost" forever with "hardly" any maintenance.
I do stir the gravel up between the rocks with a powerfilter occasionally and if I re aquascape I stir the gravel and suck out any detritus. Maintenance is a must.
A DSB can not last forever just due to physics. A DSB works by the bacteria that are in reduced oxygen conditions under the sand. After a while those bacteria die and eventually the spaces between the sand will fill with the remains of those bacteria which is a component of detritus. The worms and other creatures that are there to stir the sand and make channels so the water can enter can not go to the lower areas where there is no oxygen and eventually that layer will rise as the lower layers fill up with detritus and become impermiable to water.
If no water gets there, no reactions take place. That all happens after about ten years as I have not found an older DSB

 

[Harry_Y]

Pual, You are making me want to rip my tank apart to put a RUG in it.

My first SW tank 25 years ago had a UG filter in it and it worked quite well.

 

[eswebster]

I used one when i first got into saltwater, got it for free with the tank and i am convinced thats why my tank was idiot proof back then. Since i switched its been a bit more tempermental. Wasnt a big fan of the look of it though.

 

[Harry_Y]

I used one when i first got into saltwater, got it for free with the tank and i am convinced thats why my tank was idiot proof back then. Since i switched its been a bit more tempermental. Wasnt a big fan of the look of it though.

They sure seemed to stay cleaner

 

[fsn77]

Ok, I need more info...
How small of a grain size of sand can be used with a RUGF? I realize large enough so it doesn't fall through the plate, but that seems like it would be rather coarse.
How does running a RUGF impact sand burrowing gobies or wrasses that bury in the sand?

I'm feeling an itch to try a RUGF after reading this, although likely not on a tank larger than 75g. I'm curious to see how it does.

 

[Paul B]

You are making me want to rip my tank apart to put a RUG in it.

Then there will be 2 of us in the world. :bigsmile:

You can see the grain size here, it is dolomite and about as large as rice. These gobies are young here but they have been with me for over 10 years and they spawn every two months or so. They do not borrow and sand sifting gobies would not do well. I do have about 10 gobies that don't seem to mind the gravel but they don't sift sand. For them, you need sand.
To use this type of filter it must be run very slowly like 50 GPH down each tube and the water must be strained before going under the gravel. Those two things are what made UG filters crash in Saltwater in the beginning.

 

[ThaBeast]

Paul--

I've followed your threads on that other place and always appreciated the simplicity and stability of your tank. What type of substrate are you using?

 

[Paul B]

Here are those above gobies today, They are now old and fat.

The substrait is dolomite. It has been in the tank since it was brackish over 40 years ago. You can also see it here.