What is killing all my SPS?

[SlugSnorter]

I didn't think I was poisoning anything, from my understanding all the guides say to dose nitrate and phosphate so that competing algae has fuel to grow and outcompete the dinos.


Sounds good, I think the ship has sailed on the SPS but hopefully I can keep the LPS alive.

It still takes time, I think the lps has a chance, some cerith snails could maybe help if you don't have any yet

 

[GP0801]

It still takes time, I think the lps has a chance, some cerith snails could maybe help if you don't have any yet

I've got two but maybe I should get a couple more.

 

[SlugSnorter]

I've got two but maybe I should get a couple more.

yeah, maybe a Trochous if you don't have one too

 

[GP0801]

yeah, maybe a Trochous if you don't have one too

I've got a bunch of those, a few astreas, a fighting conch and a couple of turbos.

 

[Brian_68]

As others mentioned it takes time for a tank to stabilize for acros. If you are fighting algae, adding chemicals to try and counteract than it is not time. Others mentioned a year, my frag tank was close to that before dinos settled and the tank maintained itself. Other corals may thrive but acros often do not.

 

[SlugSnorter]

I've got a bunch of those, a few astreas, a fighting conch and a couple of turbos.

dosing live phyto might help maybe, and some pods

 

[GP0801]

As others mentioned it takes time for a tank to stabilize for acros. If you are fighting algae, adding chemicals to try and counteract than it is not time. Others mentioned a year, my frag tank was close to that before dinos settled and the tank maintained itself. Other corals may thrive but acros often do not.

Yeah I won't be touching SPS until the year mark.

dosing live phyto might help maybe, and some pods

I was considering this actually. Heard it might help and more of a natural solution.

 

[jda]

I know. I imagine that you heard/read that a lot. Research it more. It is one of the many message board mob type of things that has the reasons wrong for why something might work.

 

[ScottB]

You are going to need to decide on a path forward. Having low building blocks is not what causes dinos to come, it is a lack of other things on surfaces that allow them to gain a foothold. I have P of 1-3 ppb and N of about .1 and I have no appreciable dinos, cyano or diatoms in my tank. However, I have no sterile/new surfaces for them to attach to. Every tank can get a quarter or half-dollar sized patch of something every now and again, but they go as fast as they come and are no problem - there is no way to keep this stuff out of your tank.

By dosing N and P, you are trying to poison them. I am conflicted on if this works long term since you can poison other things too, but those often look small when you just want dinos gone. I can say that you are filling your rock and sand up with phosphate which one day you might wish that you did not. I would strongly contemplate this before you add too much more phosphate.

It seems that like many others, you are paying the price of a sterile tank startup.

You probably need to choose if you want to manage all of this, like you have been, or let nature do it. I strongly suggest the natural route. If you decide to go this way, it is a great long term decision. I would order a small kit of real live rock from Florida or the Pacific, cure it (or whatever), and wait for a month for it to populate the rest of the tank with good stuff. This usually cuts down cycles and the ugly phase to nearly nothing.

If you added too much P already, then you might need to bring it back down so that some of the awesome critters on the rocks can live - some of the inverts, worm, pods, starfish, etc. thrive with N and P closer to NSW levels. Some does not seem to hurt them too much, but you want them to thrive, repopulate and get everywhere.

I have espoused your method hundreds of times with some very important caveats:
a) Mature biome
b) Large fish load & large export: tons of rock, mechanical, refugium (maybe)
c) frequent feedings

95% (made up number) of dino systems are lacking not just one of these features -- usually ALL of them.

10 NO3 and .1 PO4 is not at all necessary, but it is not poisonous either (for my system anyway).

 

[sculpin01]

You definitely have Ostreopsis and likely another species of dino. Ostreopsis are the reason your corals died as they actively produce palytoxin in large quantities. The palytoxin is very toxic to SPS and many other corals.

Treatment is UV at night (biggest UV you can afford) when Ostreopsis is free swimming, large quantities of carbon to absorb the palytoxin, and stop all amino acid dosing (Ostreopsis uses amino acids for food). Improvement is usually seen within 2-3 days.

I went through this with a near wipe of a mature SPS system. In my case it was because I was dosing both Brightwell aminos and Acropower. In your case with a new tank, you should try to keep your nutrient levels (nitrate and phosphate) mildly elevated for the first year. Think 5-15 nitrate and 0.1-0.15 phosphate. After your tank settles in for a year or so, you can try lowering your nutrient levels slowly. Just don’t let them bottom out, as you can kill your corals that way too.

 

[GP0801]

You definitely have Ostreopsis and likely another species of dino. Ostreopsis are the reason your corals died as they actively produce palytoxin in large quantities. The palytoxin is very toxic to SPS and many other corals.

Treatment is UV at night (biggest UV you can afford) when Ostreopsis is free swimming, large quantities of carbon to absorb the palytoxin, and stop all amino acid dosing (Ostreopsis uses amino acids for food). Improvement is usually seen within 2-3 days.

I went through this with a near wipe of a mature SPS system. In my case it was because I was dosing both Brightwell aminos and Acropower. In your case with a new tank, you should try to keep your nutrient levels (nitrate and phosphate) mildly elevated for the first year. Think 5-15 nitrate and 0.1-0.15 phosphate. After your tank settles in for a year or so, you can try lowering your nutrient levels slowly. Just don’t let them bottom out, as you can kill your corals that way too.

I've been running UV at night already but not a ton of improvement. I'll try adding some carbon and cutting off the reef roids. That's the reason I started dosing nutrients because I thought the lack of nutrients was killing the corals.

 

[jda]

Please read up on the difference between available N and P versus residual N and P. Your corals do not really use nitrate and you need so little P in the form that you test, that there is no reason to add them, for the corals. Keeping high levels of availability through ammonia/ammonium with fish feeding is the way to keep corals happy - so feeding fish a lot is a good idea.

However, if you want to growth limit or kill dinos, diatoms, matting bacteria, some inverts or other things, then higher levels of residual N and P can help.

You might consider changing your thinking to N and P being building blocks and not food/energy - they are both technically nutrients, but the term is misleading and they are at the far different sides of the equation. Once you have enough building blocks to not be growth-limiting, having more rarely does anything good. Most people have no comprehension of this, but it is important - they just get by with having higher residual building blocks by also having enough available.

What is really happening with the mob message board dino treatment is that the dinos are being growth limited (poisoned) by higher building blocks until the tank has more maturity and more other things on surfaces (mostly bacteria, but also could be coralline, etc.) where they cannot grab a foot hold as easily. What makes anybody think that by fueling algae to compete with dinos did not also fuel the dinos? Zoox are dinos - hard to limit one and not the other. Also, as discussed above, N and P are not fuel. I stopped fighting about this long ago since people just don't seem to care and only really bring it up when somebody might want to know.

 

[alain Bouchard]

" both frags for under $200"....Im literally selling 4-6 inches frag of slimer for 20$cad, either you overpaid, or I am especially generous ;Pompus

 

[GP0801]

" both frags for under $200"....Im literally selling 4-6 inches frag of slimer for 20$cad, either you overpaid, or I am especially generous ;Pompus

No it was an RR Orange passion frag and a 3/4" walt disney frag for under 200. I got the slimer for free.

 

[sculpin01]

Try running your carbon actively rather than passively (powerfilter or canister). How big a UV? I ran a 36 watt Jebao and it rapidly killed them. Not sure about reef roids but definitely no aminos.

 

[GP0801]

Try running your carbon actively rather than passively (powerfilter or canister). How big a UV? I ran a 36 watt Jebao and it rapidly killed them. Not sure about reef roids but definitely no aminos.

It's a small tank so I just run a little 9w UV and a 7w UV together. Maybe I should look into a bigger single unit instead.

 

[sculpin01]

Bang for your buck, “Jebao PU-36 Pond Clarifier, Black” on Amazon for short term use is very effective. Long term use should be avoided as the plastic sleeve breaks down eventually.

 

[GP0801]

Bang for your buck, “Jebao PU-36 Pond Clarifier, Black” on Amazon for short term use is very effective. Long term use should be avoided as the plastic sleeve breaks down eventually.

Found it, it'll take about a week to come though. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[ScottB]

Found it, it'll take about a week to come though. Thanks for the suggestion.

How is the tank doing nowadays?

 

[GP0801]

How is the tank doing nowadays?

Well I still haven't beaten it but the tank looks a lot better. Seems like everything that was on the rocks or corals is now dead but I believe I still have dinos in the sand. It looks like it's on the decline though so fingers crossed jthat they're gone soon enough. Unfortunately I did lose every single SPS I had but the torch corals are doing okay.