Why are some people anti-waterchanges?

[alain Bouchard]

did a water 2 months ago, been a year since last one. My point of view, its more about understanding and controlling the ecosystem in which you grow corals and fishes.

 

[Pistondog]

But when you say success; how do you define it?

I can put my cat in a large crate with a litterbox, food and water - she will live; is that success too?

Most of us would not argue with a tank full of sps colonies and fish as successful.

I would define success as a tank that the reefer is mostly happy with.

 

[00W]

I have a pair of breeding angels eggs and all upstairs. Freshwater. Haven't changed water in that tank in I don't know how long.
I've been changing water in my salt tanks 10% every week since I was 19. I'm 54 now.
That's a lot of water.
I always wonder about those who don't do water changes. I mean that must be cool.
When aquarium books were all we had, water changes were basically mandatory and you'd feel bad if you skipped one.
My goal is to put them off for awhile.
I'm tired,I work a lot and tank is great. Finding no need for one now.
Just hope I don't feel guilty.

 

[Raul-7]

I am speaking for myself only. I am certainly not against WC. I used to do 25% WC weekly, however I now run the Reef Moonshiners program and have not done a WC since March 28, 2023. I do intend to do 1 large WC per year (over 50%) in January in order to reduce any buildup of things that aren't removed by my filtration. I am located in AZ where water supply is quickly becoming an issue so I figure getting away from regular WC with a program that has resulted in healthier corals is a win win and a hedge against possible water shortages and price increases in the future. I was skeptical before starting the program, but the results have been very convincing for me.


I feel so lazy and foolish...

You're aquarium looks phenomenal!

I never claimed you are lazy or foolish, but your bioload seems to be a lot smaller than the average given the size of your aquarium? And while you may not be foolish or lazy, the general hobbyist who wants to avoid waterchanges is usually ignorant. They wrongfully assume everything can be removed via filtration, when this is far from the truth.

Moreover, every system is different and in general waterchanges will always be better given the option.

 

[Subsea]

As a naturalist, I have camped, hiked, fished and hunted in climax forest, fresh water swamps and salt water marshes. For 30 years, I worked on and in the “Deep Blue” as a subsea control system engineer on underwater blowout preventers.

Nature is very efficient in how things work; not only in the macro but in the micro details. After 75 years of observation, I have come to respect how nature works in those minute details and I emulate Nature as best I can. It’s a challenge that I enjoy, to operate reefs with minimum equipment and maintenance by matching janitors ( CUC ) for the job, Five years ago, I choose cryptic refugium and reverse flow undergravel filter. Cryptic sponges consume both coral and algae DOC 5 fold more efficient than GAC (granulated activated carbon).
.

A deeper reason for reuse of water is:it’s more expensive than gasoline.

As a municipal waste water superintendent, I learned beneficial reuse as an agriculture soil additive by recycling spent bacteria after a Process to Significantly Reduce Pathogens. Water is more expensive than gasoline and nations will go to war over water. That is a much more recent concern that is a world wide provlem.




Scientific studies on the composition of waste/byproducts/exudates of photosynthetic corals are mostly lipids & proteins while the exudates of algae photosynthesis is mostly glucose. The “sponge loop” and in particular, cryptic sponges consume both coral & algae DOC at 5 fold more than granulated activated carbon resins 10 fold more efficiency than protein skimmers coupled with carbon dosing.

 

[LPS Bum]

With Moonshiners, Triton, etc. the goal is a self-sufficient system. But how can that be when there are immeasurable DOCs, toxins, etc. that are not being removed and left to build-up overtime? Why do we ignore common sense in hopes of avoiding waterchanges?

Why is it with FW hobbyists they are more religious about their waterchanges, while SW [some not all] hobbyists are looking for ways to avoid them?

Isn't it cheaper and better overall to do waterchanges and play it safe rather than risk stunting, algae problems, coral die offs, etc.?


This isn't meant to offend, just to open a discussion on this issue as it is concerning.

1. Time. 2. Effort. 3. Money.

I say that as someone who is old school, and does small water changes every 2 weeks in my reef, without fail. But I do them simply to suck out detritus from the sump and balance water parameters. It also gives me the opportunity to make the aquarium look great.

But I have no delusions of grandeur. My 5 gal water changes on a 164 gal system aren’t magic elixirs. In order to do a large enough water change to really affect the chemistry, I’d have to change at least 30 gallons. That’s expensive and time consuming, so I get why people skip them. Especially now when you can easily keep the water clean and clear with massive filtration, remove DOCs and dose just about anything you need to.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

I do water changes about every 2 months, not the greatest schedule but my fish and coral are happy. I just did one 4 days ago and everything is crabby still. so to each their own.

 

[hexcolor reef]

Water changes kills!!!!!

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

I do 100 percent weekly. But mine is 1 gallong lol. Did it with other setups for years that way. When I did dose. It was just aminos, food etc. If I had larger tanks I would do less water changes and dose alk, mag, calc and other trace elements as needed to compensate.

Since every tank is different some dont need as much care or husbandry as others even if setup the same.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

100 gallon system, 25% bi weekly water changes. 100.00 a bucket for 150 gallons mixed water. 12 weeks of water changes 8.00 per week 33.00 per month. I buy my salt on sale and stock up, so closer to 15.00 per month. Less than 4.00 per week, how much would you spend on additives to add back to the water each month so you don't have to do water changes? On my system I will do water changes.

 

[The_Paradox]

100 gallon system, 25% bi weekly water changes. 100.00 a bucket for 150 gallons mixed water. 12 weeks of water changes 8.00 per week 33.00 per month. I buy my salt on sale and stock up, so closer to 15.00 per month. Less than 4.00 per week, how much would you spend on additives to add back to the water each month so you don't have to do water changes? On my system I will do water changes.

You don’t dose any alk or calcium?

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

Stability, first and foremost.
Secondly, If you have everything balanced, water changes are unnecessary.
Freshwater keepers are stuck with water changing because they can’t utilise Carbon dosing to consume NO3 & PO4 as it requires a protein skimmer to remove the bacterial flocculation…

We have a 65G FW tank with 11 large fancy goldfish and a school of guppies, I only have to change the water once every couple months. We have duckweed and some other floaters we net off the top that grow insanely fast. Nitrates never get above 20.

There are ways to do it, but I think the nitrate issue in FW is extremely misunderstood in the first place. We have shrimp tanks that have accidently been allowed to go into the high 100s and we couldn't even tell.

Now we change water based on TDS for our sensative tanks. And our garbage water pig tank we just do 10 gallons every time we have to change out and clean the filtration. Mostly to suck up loose detritus.

As for salt water, due to cost, its a lot cheaper to dose everything and utilize the fuge with carbon dosing. Otherwise we cannot afford our reef.

Edit: our water pig tank has also been near 200 before, but something must have changed with its microbiome. I assume that algae grows absurdly heavy in the tank, but there are way too many snails and they must eat it all, because that tank, due to the goldfish ripping the tank up, doesn't have all that many plants.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

You don’t dose any alk or calcium?

Of course, and mag. All for reef powder, way cheaper than pre mixed and brs 2 part, which is cal mag and talk.

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

I think your tank tells the tale quite well - you have an extremely low bio load (of fish) - and you're routinely testing and adding chemicals to your water on a scheduled basis.

To the OP - you can have a great tank with a number of methods, however - if you have a high fish bio load - and want to keep corals as well - its my opinion that routine water changes help more than they hurt.

You're aquarium looks phenomenal!

I never claimed you are lazy or foolish, but your bioload seems to be a lot smaller than the average given the size of your aquarium? And while you may not be foolish or lazy, the general hobbyist who wants to avoid waterchanges is usually ignorant. They wrongfully assume everything can be removed via filtration, when this is far from the truth.

Moreover, every system is different and in general waterchanges will always be better given the option.

You might both be surprised to know that there is actually 49 fish in the tank, including a small eel (down quite a few from the peak in March of 2022 when there were 73 but I lost quite a few in a Lanthanum Chloride incident and have not replaced many of them). I always try to take pics when the fish aren't in frame if I'm focusing on the corals. I'll add a pic with fish tomorrow. I feed 1 cup (8 fluid ounces) of a mixture of frozen foods, pellet foods, Nori, and Benepets) 3 times a day for a total of 24 fluid ounces of food. I believe in high import and high export.

Current fish list:
Naso Tang
Powder Blue Tang
Sohol Tang
White Tail Bristletooth Tang
Gem Tang
Hippo Tang
Sailfin Tang
Copperband Butterfly
Foxface
Hawaiian Dwarf Moray Eel
Potters Angel
Pintail Wrasse
Radiant Wrasse
Femininus Wrasse
Orange Back Wrasse
Neon Wrasse
Leopard Wrasse
6 Line Wrasse
Blue Throat Sailfin Wrasse
Maldives McCoskers Wrasse
12 Springeri Damsels
Mandarin Goby
Ocellaris Clownfish
2 Ruby Red Scooter Blennies
6 Chalk Bass
6 Royal Grammas

I'm an old school reefer - started in the hobby in 1991, and still believe WC are a great tool but I think the statement that:

Moreover, every system is different and in general waterchanges will always be better given the option

may not be true. I have found that dosing trace elements as needed is much less destabilizing than regular WC and, in my opinion, is a better option. I do agree that if you don't have a solution for the polution then you should use dilution i.e. water changes, and most new reefers don't start by using one of the Trace Element dosing methods so they should be doing regular water changes. The OP's original question was "Why are some people anti-water change?", and while I am not "anti-water change", the reasons stated in my comments are why I no longer do regular water changes and I feel it has been very good for my systems.

 

[Raul-7]

But we all agree the solution to pollution is dilution.

With that in mind, waterchanges should be part of any regimen.

Dosing trace elements for those that are depleted is fine, but it doesn't solve the pollution issue. I know your aquarium is doing fabulous. But the problem is every newbie is going to use your example as an excuse not to do waterchanges. Then wonders why their aquarium is doing poorly.

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

How do you not have the tank of the month award?!

Honestly though I think most people who don’t do water changes are just being lazy/don’t have the time. Not all. I’m sure there are ways of not doing water changes while still maintaining excellent water quality but i assume they also take a similar amount of work and probably more skill than regular water changes. Water changes IMO are the easiest way to maintain good water when you’re getting into the hobby.

I only do regular water changes on one tank. The other I just use a Refugium and carbon dosing.

Thank you for the kind words. I guess no one has nominated my tank LOL. Here's my build thread if you want to see more: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/m...gallon-custom-miracles-aquarium-build.715455/

You may be correct that most people who don't do regular WC are being lazy which is why I stated that I'm only speaking for myself. I also agree that WC are the easiest way to maintain good water quality as it is definitely more complicated to use a method such as Reef Moonshiners (although it's very easy once you have read the hand book and have the proper tools).

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

But we all agree the solution to pollution is dilution.

With that in mind, waterchanges should be part of any regimen.

Dosing trace elements for those that are depleted is fine, but it doesn't solve the pollution issue. I know your aquarium is doing fabulous. But the problem is every newbie is going to use your example as an excuse not to do waterchanges. Then wonders why their aquarium is doing poorly.

I disagree, and if a newby follows the method I use I would expect similar success for their tank. If they simply don't do water changes but don't have a method in place to ensure success then they can expect failure. There are many ways to skin a cat and quite a few examples of successfully managing a reef tank without doing regular water changes. Occasional large water changes such as what I plan to do annually may have a beneficial impact, but regular water changes aren't necessary if you have other methods in place.

 

[MabuyaQ]

But we all agree the solution to pollution is dilution.

With that in mind, waterchanges should be part of any regimen.

Dosing trace elements for those that are depleted is fine, but it doesn't solve the pollution issue. I know your aquarium is doing fabulous. But the problem is every newbie is going to use your example as an excuse not to do waterchanges. Then wonders why their aquarium is doing poorly.

Have to disagree, because what slowly builds up can be controlled with tools like algae, bacteria, GFO, GAC, ozone, etc. to the point that they have no impact on the aquarium. So there is no real need to do waterchanges anymore. With all the modern equipment and the knowledge we now have this is a lot easier then when I started, because then waterchanges were the only tool available. Yet there could be sudden large changes where dilution would be the right thing to do as first measure to get back in control. So we all need a bucket, or buckets, of salt large enough to be able to replace all the water in the tank (not at once but with several large waterchanges).

 

[Paul B]

I am kind of in the middle with this. I think it is beneficial to change some water but I also believe changing to much water can be detrimental which is why new tanks with all new water look lousy and have all sorts of problems. Water in a tank becomes better in time "up to a point." (I didn't come up with that one myself)

I have a 125 gallon tank and I change about 40 gallons about 4 or 5 times a year. I have about 45 mostly smaller fish and the tank is running over 50 years. Most of the fish are spawning and the tank has never crashed.

I use NSW that I collect and ASW depending on the weather.

So I feel we should do some water changes but I also feel many people change to much water.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Reefer Matt]

I think there is also a huge difference in those who do icp testing and dose elements back into the water, versus those that don't test and think they can skip the water changes, testing, and dosing, too. One will have a thriving tank 5+ years, and the other will have a crash 6 months to a year in, imo. My advice, for beginners, do the water changes. After a couple years, if you notice your nutrients are always low, and water changes aren't needed to being them down, consider a method like the Triton method. But know that it may not be less expensive than water changes. Either way, the maintenance has to be done. Either method will work for experienced Reefers. However, I promote water changes, because they are simpler and straight forward in most cases. But not the only way.