Why do some people charge so much for corals?

[Reef Pets]

A dollar amount is a matter of opinion. While one person feels that a coral is over prices another person feels the price is fair or lower than what its worth.
If you want something thats rare then a price has to be paid for it. This concept does not only apply to coral but to nearly everything thats considered to be rare.

 

[Tyrrell109]

little booger frags are the worst!! If you are going to charge $300 fine but make it a big frag LOL
C

Amen to that!!!

 

[sowellj]

Generally they charge what they can get for it. If retailers can charge ridiculous (subjective) amounts of money and someone buys it, more power to them. If you want a particular piece and want it now, you will likely have to pay for it from a vendor. However, if you are willing to be patent and wait, getting things from a fellow hobbyist can save serious money.

 

[johnanddawn]

"Why do some people charge so much for corals?"

simple - because some people are willing to pay so much

but its not a big deal - just don't buy from them

 

[jerl77]

i think they all smoke crack then give it a price :bigsmile:

 

[Wild1]

Because they can!

 

[jerl77]

if we stop buying them people we can make this hobby cheap agasin come on people stop paying 300 for an eye the price will come down !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[WWC Verified Sponsor]

Don't forget the billions of hand crafted hours put into the making of them... also the technology.

Most Def! I LOVE Lambos!!!!!!

 

[PnoyToiTz]

i think they all smoke crack then give it a price :bigsmile:

:hammer::hammer::hammer:

 

[drainbamage]

if we stop buying them people we can make this hobby cheap agasin come on people stop paying 300 for an eye the price will come down !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can we make signs to rally behind? Perhaps with a cutting like device to resemble our cutting of frags, and perhaps a blunt object to symbolify our commitment and dedication and unwillingness to compromise? Just kidding :bigsmile:

And at the end of the day, all manufactured goods (like Lambo's) are just raw materials that have effort sunk into them. Some of it is R&D tech (lighting/wind-tunnels) some is experimentation (race-tracks/losing corals to wrong lighting to find out what they like) and most of it's effort. The Lambo's a much more far stretched analogy, but still applicable if taken the right way. Diamond example is much simpler and more concrete-please discuss and refute :wink: (easiest refutation is industrial application of diamonds-except industrial uses mostly diamond grits, not large crystals like jewelry does, plus for industrial application, lab grown diamonds are proven better and more uniform.)

 

[kellyjn]

I'll bite...

Lambos are a true LE. They only make so many, period, end of story. Not to mention they are made of the best materials and made mostly by hand. When I can cut a piece of a Lambo fender off, it will heal, and the piece I cut can grow into a whole nother Lambo, than this arguement has some credence.

Diamonds......... overpriced sure!! Why? Supply vs demand? NOPE How about controlled supply vs demand? But again, when the wifes ring sits there and makes more of itself, maybe than we can compare them to corals.

Now if all these new corals, had a little fairy that came out and cleaned my tank at night, I might be tempted to spend a stupid amount of money on it. Bottom line is that they are just a different color, a different color that no one knows if that it will even hold that color! It's like bringing an unproven product to the market, and thinking people will pay not only a premium over a product that has been proven, but an arm and leg too. This is one of the only industries where this takes place.

 

[DBarsotti]

:horse:


if you don't like the price, don't buy it.. wait till your friend buys it, then bum a frag.

simple as that.

 

[drainbamage]

I'll bite...

Lambos are a true LE. They only make so many, period, end of story. Not to mention they are made of the best materials and made mostly by hand. When I can cut a piece of a Lambo fender off, it will heal, and the piece I cut can grow into a whole nother Lambo, than this arguement has some credence.

Diamonds......... overpriced sure!! Why? Supply vs demand? NOPE How about controlled supply vs demand? But again, when the wifes ring sits there and makes more of itself, maybe than we can compare them to corals.

Now if all these new corals, had a little fairy that came out and cleaned my tank at night, I might be tempted to spend a stupid amount of money on it. Bottom line is that they are just a different color, a different color that no one knows if that it will even hold that color! It's like bringing an unproven product to the market, and thinking people will pay not only a premium over a product that has been proven, but an arm and leg too. This is one of the only industries where this takes place.

hah, good bite! And yea, I know neither of these are ideal arguments in similarity, corals are a whole world of unique fun because we can clip them. I was thinking the analogies worked as OP seemed to go on to talk about the wild imports more than the LE items. I can't think of anything comparible to wild collection of things that will then go reproduce. Heck blue-fin tuna prices can't be used because even though the possibility exists to breed them, it's not very likely!

 

[Speg]

Wow, you guys tried to go too far with this discussion.

The reason why other objects are brought up is because it's a good reference on how something that seems worthless, or not worth much, can be worth a lot if someone nis willing to pay for it.

We can talk about how diamonds are great to buy or not great to buy and discuss why that market is so unique--we could do the same for cars.

The point that was made was: supply and demand. Every object in life has supply and demand and that's why we pay what we do. If nobody wanted these coral then the price would drop....maybe YOU don't buy them or see the point in spending a lot of money, but someone must because the high prices still exist.

 

[reefer916]

Lambo's, Ferrari's, Masserati's, Aston's, Porche's are all nice cars. I've got buddies with these kind of cars who paid $250k for a LE Lambo back in 09'. Freaking nice car, but he never used it on the track nor do any my buddies with the Ferrari's and Masserati's. They use their Porches, BMW's, and Vettes. I can' tell you if I'd pay that kind of money for a car, but if I was making over $1 million a year I may think about it. Prices are all about supply and demand.

I'm sure you guys have noticed the price drop of Purple Hornets and Red Hornets these days. A few years ago the PH's were a few hundred per polyp and same with the Red Hornets. After everyone grew them out you can now find them for $30 per polyp. Even Bay Corals is selling them cheap. I just picked up a 4 eye 1 1/2" frag of Tyree BGM at Your Reef for $40 and 4 polyps of CAR's for $25 a few weeks ago. John at YR was throwing out some awesome deals that day because he was headed out to Reef-a-palooza. I bought a 4 eye Miami Hurricane frag for $30 from a reefer a few months ago. If you shop around you'll find some killer prices these days. Prices will go down, if there's an excess supply and low demand. I usually buy my corals based off of looks and not as an investment. The economy being what it is I don't think there's many of us who can pay $500-$1000 for a frag. The guys who have them will either have to hold onto them and wait till more people have money or sell them at a discount. Things are only worth what you could sell them for. Homes are a great example right now.

 

[kellyjn]

Wow, you guys tried to go too far with this discussion.

The reason why other objects are brought up is because it's a good reference on how something that seems worthless, or not worth much, can be worth a lot if someone nis willing to pay for it.

Ok, well than tell me this…… If I post up that I paid $1000 for a Sony PS3 that is neon green(sold to me as a RARE, LE), what is your first honest thought……

Is it:
"Wow, that is the coolest thing in the world!!! I WANT ONE!!!! I WILL HAVE ONE TOO!!!!"

Or is it something along the line of:
"$1000? Wow what an idiot!!" Or "Wow, he’s not to smart with his money!!" If you are a kinder/gentler person. :)

We can talk about how diamonds are great to buy or not great to buy and discuss why that market is so unique--we could do the same for cars.

The point that was made was: supply and demand. Every object in life has supply and demand and that's why we pay what we do. If nobody wanted these coral then the price would drop....maybe YOU don't buy them or see the point in spending a lot of money, but someone must because the high prices still exist.

I don’t buy supply vs demand as a reason for these prices. There isn’t one reason these sellers can’t put a far more reasonable price on things besides greed. How is it LFS have existed (and will continue to exist) for years without ever selling a $4-500 or $1000 booger sized coral??

I don’t think demand would dwindle or die on a new coral simply because of a reasonable starting price. Do you?

Are you familiar with term FAIR MARKET VALUE? Or does that simply not apply to corals?

Supply vs Demand seems to only work, with corals, in keeping the coral in more of a correct value after it has been around for awhile (few months) That price adjustment is the Supply vs Demand you speak of. What about the initial price?

Do you honestly trust that these initial prices that are being set by auctions are 100% legit? And why is that a good way of determining value? Pitting one reefer against another. Who really wins there?

Look what we have created!! All these nice new pieces used to be the ones that you could walk into a LFS and find a gem at a decent price. Now they are swooped up as soon as they come in by the cherry pickers, chopped up, have pictures taken under 30k leds, and hit with a three-four figure price tag. I’m as guilty as the next guy of paying too much for a piece of coral, I’m not a saint by any means, but the point here is we can stop it.

The voices seem to be gathering in numbers and are getting louder. I love seeing threads like this posted quite honestly. NEVER GETS OLD!

My reply is in bold.

 

[650-IS350]

kellyjn, intresting reply and take....

 

[Reef Pets]

if we stop buying them people we can make this hobby cheap agasin come on people stop paying 300 for an eye the price will come down !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not possible. If hobbyist stop buying then vendors will stop selling. If vendors stop selling then exporters stop exporting and before you know it the hobby is GONE.
Like every other business in the world its all about supply and demand. If hobbyist want nice and rare coral then they will have to pay for them just like anything else thats nice and or rare.

This subject gets posted at least once per month and every time it ends with the same result. It's an expensive hobby, you gotta pay to play.

I got a question for any and all hobbyist.... What do you guys think us vendors pay for coral. Just some examples would be nice. Once you post what you think we pay I can correct that and then use our overhead as an example.

 

[MoneyPit]

Ok I'll play along. Ex: Scoly, you pay 50, you charge 200.
Acan colony you pay 100, cut up into 10 pcs. charge 40 per piece = 400.

 

[Reef Pets]

Good start. Pay about 90 for one that we can get 200.00 out of. If they are ultra nice like some that sell for 800.00 then I would purchase it for MUCH more than 90.00
Our rent is 850.00 per month, 1300.00 per month in electric, 180.00 per month in water, 170.00 per month for phone and internet, 80.00 per month for insurance 200.00 per month for salt to do water changes and I believe the cost to set up the shop was about 125,000.00. So, take all of that into consideration and exactly how much profit is made???? Not much. So, when a coral is sold at whats considered to be high dollar trust me the vendor is not getting rich from it.

Also, for every ultra grade, extremely nice coral we get on a shipment we get 8 - 10 low grade coral that we make very little, break even or sometimes lose money on. From a business stand point, all of this has to be factored into the price of each coral.

As for Acans, we direct import and pay more than that for them. If its a large colony and we are talking about fragging then take all of the above into consideration then add the possibility of die off. Again, if its a large colony and is thick then also add the price of a 50.00 diamond blade into the cost of cutting it up. Also, I dont know of anyone that works for free.... Therefore, time has to be taken into consideration.

Hobbyist complain about how much time it takes to maintain a 125 gallon reef and the cost of the up keep. We have 4000 gallons, its time consuming to say the least!