A Hypocrites View on Not Using Quarantine

[MnFish1]

So - here is a video of the 'flow' in my tank - I was doing a water change - and there were some bubbles.

The current thought is to use as a bath, but with minimal water agitation so that it doesn’t “react” like you’ve mentioned.

https://humble.fish/hydrogen-peroxide/

Its interesting in the paper in 2011 - they used in an aquaculture center - with a streaming flow (for 30 minutes) - but I would guess they were also continuously 'adding it' since it wasnt (I think) a recirculating system. It was quite effective (they said the number of deaths (from velvet dropped from 200-3000 fish/day to 10 or so).

 

[FlyPenFly]

I believe Polyplab Medic runs on some kind of oxidation principle but it's claims are pretty generous. Helps with Ich, Velvet, etc...

They're also a company who generally don't put out bad products but who knows.

 

[Paul Sands]

From my understanding - its not the free swimming ones that are a problem in hypoxic environments (Low oxygen). Do you keep fish in your frag tanks? - if not - its not likely that you have CI or velvet (depending on how long you keep them in your frag tank).

I think there is a difference as well (in the debate you mentioned) - I think part of that was 'anoxic' vs 'hypoxic'. There are surely hypoxic areas in some parts of the tank (i.e. a. lower than 'normal' oxygen level. Unfortunately - I dont remember the exact amount of DO2 they were talking about in the study - I'm sure @Humblefish would know.

No fish in frag tank. That would defeat the purpose for my approach.

There is a small chance that there may be free swimming parasites if there were any encysted trophonts on a frag that hatched in the previous 24-48 hours. Frags do get rotated in and out of the frag tank.

I think my approach generally follows what humblefish recommends in his awesome QT post.

 

[Paul B]

Nice MnFish. And it looks like the fish like the music. :D

Still waiting on that achilles or PBT buddy!

If I find one I will get it. My tank has almost always had hippo tangs as they don't bore me as much as the rest of the tangs. :rolleyes:
I think my last one lived about 12 years.

 

[sfin52]

The same thing happens in the chemical side of pest control. Insects become immune to chemicals after years of use in the industry. They are constantly trying to stay ahead of it.

Immune no but resistant or avoidance bugs learn. I walked into a restaurant to treat for roaches. After three services the population was growing. I switched roach bait and three months no more roaches.
Rodents are the same way.
warfarin. Was a rat poison before a human medication. Now rodents eat it and keep moving.

Look we have strains of ich that live well past our fallow period. A couple of years ago leave tank fallow for 28 days. Now it's in the 70 plus mark.

We are over medicating and not killing off the bugs.

 

[MnFish1]

Oops - I didnt upload the video - its a little 'foggy due to the amount of bubbles' - but it gives the idea through the whole thing of the flow with the alternating Gyres - I have a feeling this is a fair bit more than most tanks. But - I also think it helps with parasite control

 

[Paul B]

Look we have strains of ich that live well past our fallow period. A couple of years ago leave tank fallow for 28 days. Now it's in the 70 plus mark.

For the people who quarantine, why don't you just decorate your quarantine tanks and call that your DT. :D

 

[sfin52]

For the people who quarantine, why don't you just decorate your quarantine tanks and call that your DT. :D

Thats how my qt became a full blown fowlr tank.

 

[FlyPenFly]

Yes, but your tank is like Lasse's in that you have a huge number of coral "mouths". I don't have nearly as many. I could be wrong, but I do feel that may be the single most effective parasite limiting method we can employ.
Of course, your Godzilla larvae may have scared all the parasites out, too. Always a possibility.

Super interesting, do you think the amount of space polyps take up play a role?

 

[Brew12]

I believe Polyplab Medic runs on some kind of oxidation principle but it's claims are pretty generous. Helps with Ich, Velvet, etc...

They're also a company who generally don't put out bad products but who knows.

The problem with Polyp lab medic isn't so much the principle as much as the dosing instructions are misleading. It will not eradicate a parasite if used as directed. If it is designed to reduce parasite levels while the fish builds its innate immunity than it could be effective.

 

[Brew12]

Super interesting, do you think the amount of space polyps take up play a role?

I do. There is no reason to think that some of these corals won't eat parasites if they can filter them from the water. The more space they take up the less chance a parasite has to find a hard surface to land on without being consumed.

 

[FlyPenFly]

The problem with Polyp lab medic isn't so much the principle as much as the dosing instructions are misleading. It will not eradicate a parasite if used as directed. If it is designed to reduce parasite levels while the fish builds its innate immunity than it could be effective.

I agree and I don't think they say they eradicate it on the bottle or box. I think they just indicate it helps manage it but I could be wrong. I wonder if it's even effective at that. I also wonder if it has any sort of effect on a reef tank with long term continued use.

 

[Brew12]

I agree and I don't think they say they eradicate it on the bottle or box. I think they just indicate it helps manage it but I could be wrong. I wonder if it's even effective at that. I also wonder if it has any sort of effect on a reef tank with long term continued use.

It is a peroxide salt and we know that hydrogen peroxide can be effective. I do believe it will eliminate some parasites while it is active. I don't think it will do any more than regular H2O2.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Qt works, prove me wrong

 

[FlyPenFly]

I only know people on these forums that have fish as everyone else I know already died, is in the process of dying or died and they don't know it yet. But on this forum there are at least two people who use variations of my method. Lasse and Atoll. I think SubSea also. I know 4 or 5 people on other forums that follow my theory. I have spoke at aquarium clubs 4 times to teach my method, which is so easy Nancy Pelosi could do it. :rolleyes: All of the old tanks follow my theory (I think). As I said, except for Humblefish I know of absolutely no old quarantined tanks, do you?

I just went on the disease thread and it is heartbreaking how many fish we are killing with kindness, thinking we are doing something good. 200 years ago we used to "bleed" people to cure them. Even George Washington was bled. That was top notch medical care in those days. Then someone came along who thought outside the box and said, "Like Duh" Most of these people are dying, maybe we should try something else like maybe keeping the blood in the people.
Galallio figured out that the Earth was not the center of the universe. After saying that they banned him from all these forums. He was Ex communicated and jailed. But he was right. Just because something is done by almost everyone, doesn't make it right. I have a reverse undergravel filter that 98.7 % of the people will say can't work in salt water, and yet my tank is the oldest one on here so how bad could it be? :cool:
I dump NSW into my tank every few months and I take it right near the shore along with mud, amphipods, crabs, flounders Godzilla larvae and most people tell me I am playing Russian Roulette, for 48 years so I must be very lucky. I have been waiting for a Supermodel to knock on my door to help with reef maintenance for all that time an so far all I get is people wanting to clean my gutters or reduce my credit card interest. so I can't be too lucky. :confused:

Quarantined fish are always living on the edge and the first parasite that gets in either on a coral, food, seaweed or water will catch whatever it is and those fish are almost impossible to cure as they have no immunity. If you were to cure those fish, whatever little immunity they originally had would be gone. It's a simple thing. Fish are already immune in the sea. Just feed them food with living bacteria in it and do nothing to remove or kill parasites. Either use live worms a couple of times a week, get clams that did not come from a commercial fish food manufacturer or use fresh fish. Or if you are in Idaho, add garden soil. Anything with living bacteria. Use no dry foods or freeze dried perish the thought. Thats the whole system. :D
It seems so simple to me that it must be wrong. :rolleyes:

Remember the boy in the bubble? He probably died because he could not live in the world with the rest of us and always had to be quarantined.

Always makes me laugh, glad to see you're still in the hobby!

 

[Lasse]

Qt works, prove me wrong

I must admit - I have done QT too. From my tank build :)

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Brew12]

Always makes me laugh, glad to see you're still in the hobby!

I wish he would leave the hobby. He's hogging all the healthy fish and supermodels. :confused::mad:

 

[Paul B]

Super interesting, do you think the amount of space polyps take up play a role?

No.

I wish he would leave the hobby. He's hogging all the healthy fish and supermodels. :confused::mad:

I like to annoy people. :cool:

Always makes me laugh, glad to see you're still in the hobby!

As long as I am on the right side of the grass, I will be in the hobby. Someone has to teach all of you Noobs. And you are all Noobs to me. :rolleyes:

 

[drstardust]

I also have a lot of sponges. Maybe they eat the parasites, or maybe it's because I offer up tea leaves to the moon. We may never know.

+1 for tea leaves :D

 

[sfin52]

As long as I am on the right side of the grass, I will be in the hobby. Someone has to teach all of you Noobs. And you are all Noobs to me.

Noob so hateful. What, ive been doing this for almost five years. I know everything grandpa.

Wait in that light I'm still a noob. I give up. I can't argue with a guru.