Chrysophytes battle

Discussion in 'Algae (including nuisance algae and bacteria)' started by pboutin, May 16, 2017.

  1. pboutin

    pboutin Well-Known Member CTARS Member

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    I'm currently battling what I thought was Dinoflagellates. @mcarroll has ID this for me as Chrysophytes. Here is a background on my tank and where I am now.

    My tank build thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/4-years-old-and-just-getting-started.302988/

    Total water volume 160 gal. I restarted it back in Nov? due to these pests. Apparently I never knew what I was battling as I have a fresh start and same issues.

    I have Skimmer but stopped running it. I have a GFO/Carbon dual reactor also not running. After my restart I added a refugium to the system with a water vol of 40 gal (that's included in the 160) for a while it was growing green turf algae and cyano. The algae is browning out. I added Chaeto to balance it out. I have been running a bioreactor on this system since day 1 including the initial cycle (which took 3 months) with using Dr. Tim's One and Only. The reactor uses Dr. Tim's Active pearls. I don't have a lot of media in there. When I first added fish I experimented with normal feeding and overfeeding. I noticed that I never really got a lot of diatoms or algae. I started adding corals and checking my foundation elements and watching PH.

    Average numbers
    Alk 9.94
    Cal 434.78
    Mag 1080
    Nitrate 0
    Phosphate 0
    PH 8.2 ~ 8.35

    Other than the initial cycle I have never seen any Nitrate or Phosphate in this tank.

    So far what I have done:

     
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  2. pboutin

    pboutin Well-Known Member CTARS Member

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    Just a quick note on what the game plan was or is on this. My take has been nutrient deprived from day 1. There's lots of thought on Dinos outcompeting algae and even corals for nutrients as they can feed on bacteria if needed. I'm sure someone smarter than me can elaborate on this. So regardless of Dinos or "Chrysophytes" My Nitrates and Phosphates need to come up so I can stop losing corals. I lost my Acro and my Acans are in decline... To keep them as healthy as possible I have been broadcast feeding every night.

    OK onto the tests

    Day 2 - continued (5/16)
    Dosed 20 ml KN03 - up from 10 ml
    Dosed 40 ml of P2O5
    Observed:
    Some very large pods moving about the rockwork on the refugium
    Some small patches of Chrysophytes are present on the rocks in the refugium
    I took a picture of my Algae in my Refugium so I can compare color and growth
    IMG_5403.JPG

    Day 3 (5/17)
    N03 measured at 0
    P04 measured at 0.08 - W00t!
    Observations:
    Coral health seems to remain the same I thought yesterday morning they seemed happier than last night or this morning
    No noticeable changes in the Chrysophytes in the DT

    Changes for day 3:
    I cleaned the glass of the DT
    Turned back on the skimmer
    Changed out my filter pad (I don't run socks but a pad)

    Given that the Phosphates came up after dosing I'll probably do half dose tonight to keep them right there. If they drop back tomorrow i'll go back to the full dose. I doubled the Nitrate dose and still no change I may take the biopellets offline (I hesitate on this as I don't want a huge spike of nitrates.) Otherwise I may just either continue the same dose or remove half of the media in the reactor. Anyone have an opinion on this?
     
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  3. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Reef Squad

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    Wow. Well your on the right track I think. I honestly would consider a canister filter with floss or micron filters(floss will work fine IMO) and just lower the biomass and reduce the the how fast they reproduce.. A diatom filter would not be out of the question.

    Perhaps @mcarroll @reeferfoxx can chime in on the nutrient dosing.

    I have to say as an owner of "high nutrient tanks" Ive never seen a "Spike". this year has been a roller coaster for my nutrints because of bryopsis. Ive also fed my tanks like bloody fool for NPS and mandarins. Yea it may have made my acros brown but that was it. Fwiw it is very possible the chryso could be actively feeding on the increased bacterial population from the biopellets in the water column like sponges and other marine life. .
     
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  4. pboutin

    pboutin Well-Known Member CTARS Member

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    I hope to have one by the end of the weekend waiting on a fellow reef club members response on one.

    Good point, I was thinking maybe reduce my media to half to start and see where it takes me beyond dosing KN03.

    I totally agree with this from what i've been reading. What else would keep them alive in a nutrient deprived system?

    I don't plan to attempt to remove them from the rocks however until I get my nutrients in line. I don't want to risk spreading them. Hopefully by the time I get my hands on a canister filter I'll be there with the KN03 dosing.
     
  5. reeferfoxx

    reeferfoxx Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    Hi! I think you are in the right track with dosing no3. That will help releasee any locked po4. I noticed from an earlier post that your magnesium is really low. I think your corals would be happier if bumped up to 1300-1350.

    So on to getting rid of chrysophytes. I think there is a benefit of combined efforts with dosing kno3, running GFO, and manual removal. In my 30 gallon i was able to rid chrysos in 3 days. First I cleaned out as much as possible with tooth brush and vacuum. I then added recommended amount for tank volumn of GFO for only 24 hours. I didn't start slow. This in turn dropped alkalinity, so monitoring is essential. Post GFO cleaning and water change, just make sure no3 is measurable as this will also release any other po4 locked away. For me it was that simple.
    Good luck!
     
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  6. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Reef Squad

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    Its seems like, youll be feeding them and the bacteria (further lowering nutrints) in this case though and they will propagate proportionally to the the amount of the organisms present.
    So your increasing and decreasing at the same time.

    Keep in mind on spreading, like bacteria its already in the water. everywhere. pretty much everyone has cyanobacteria, but we only see it where it creates large colonies.
    Like common algaes, as soon as you remove the mass that is consuming nutrients, the nutrients naturally rise. it like taking GFO off line. Po4 is present bount to the rock but the gfo is stripping is from the water. remove the gfo and the actual amount sampled from the water is a better indicator of the amount truly bound to the rock.

    Look on amazon, they have a canister for $60.(sun sun? and 9 other names are the same one) I have it, its surprisingly well built.
     
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  7. pboutin

    pboutin Well-Known Member CTARS Member

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    i'm already working on this... I ramped up my dosing today and will test again tomorrow

    What exactly reduced your alkalinity?

    Thanks for your help
     
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  8. pboutin

    pboutin Well-Known Member CTARS Member

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    Good point on the spreading and nutrient uptake. However other than blowing them off the rocks and letting my skimmer pull them out is less than ideal. I don't run filter socks i use a filter mat in my sump so unfortunately i would not be able to catch everything that goes to the sump.
     
  9. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Reef Squad

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    understood. That;s what the canister filter would be for.
    When I deep clean the sump I turn off the return and scrub then leave it for the day till the water clears.
     
  10. pboutin

    pboutin Well-Known Member CTARS Member

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    What's the general rule of size of canister filter to water vol? and I was thinking of using it to both blow off the rocks and suck up the debris. I suppose after I do that i could run it in the sump for a while.
     
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  11. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Reef Squad

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    For this application I dont think it matters really. the bigger the faster it clears. The vol counts more if its fresh water as most of your bacteria is in the can and not the tank. We have live rock for bacteria.
    I got two flexible hoses with rubber ends for $8 and used that but itll work stock just fine. Mostly I replaced the hoses as its easier to store and set up quickly.

    I think this is the one I have, this is the cheapest, the same one literally has a dozen names. And again, im using thechep blue and white floss. the media is for bacteria.
    https://www.amazon.com/SunSun-HW-30...id=1495043871&sr=1-7&keywords=canister+filter
     
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  12. reeferfoxx

    reeferfoxx Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    Chrysophytes cell wall is made up of silica. With recommended amounts of GFO you can eliminate upwards of 20mg of silica in 24 hours. Ths is substantial and will keep chrysos from reproducing. The affects of GFO are listed here by Dana Riddle.
     
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  13. pboutin

    pboutin Well-Known Member CTARS Member

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    Well I learned a few things today! Thanks @reeferfoxx I may just go to my LFS to pick up a used canister filter later today to get the ball rolling faster. No need to buy new on something used infrequently!
     
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  14. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Reef Squad

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    Heck yea! If you can get a deal on a good one!
     
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  15. mcarroll

    mcarroll Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member

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    I did use a small can of GFO on the 24 hours Plan (for Si removal) but based on how things reacted (or not) I can't say for sure whether it helped.

    @pboutin GFO doesn't cost much though, the theory is right, and used properly it won't impact your PO4. :)

    (It could impact your alk though, as mentioned....shouldn't be much based on the quantity you'll be using though, but keep an eye on alk when you add the GFO just in case. I'd wait until the rest of the chemistry is back in order....Mg included....before commencing GFO-based Si-removal.
     
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  16. Narzyzz_12

    Narzyzz_12 Well-Known Member

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    I had something very similar growing all over my 20L a while back, just added GFO and presto it was gone.At the time my PO4 was really low,unreadable in fact.
     
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  17. pboutin

    pboutin Well-Known Member CTARS Member

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    quick update: I turned on my 40 watt UV and my GFO, turned off my bioreactor, and picked up a canister/diatom filter I got used at LFS for $35 added a new Diatom paper filter to that. I decided to leave out the Diatom earth... seemed like too much trouble. I can certainly go get it if needed. I'll do a single dose tonight of the KN03 and P2O5 and do the cleaning in the AM. Hopefully my N03 will be up.
     
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  18. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Reef Squad

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    Excellent. Good luck!
     
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  19. mcarroll

    mcarroll Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member

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    You got the <24 hrs treatment directions, right?
     
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  20. pboutin

    pboutin Well-Known Member CTARS Member

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    Not sure what you mean here... Only run it for 24 hours?
     

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