Current Quarantine Protocol

hairyashell

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Now just waiting for my copper power to arrive. Will take out all the rocks before introducing copper.
Current stocking in the QT:
clown trigger
arrow trigger (adopted)
emperor angelfish
blue tang (adopted)
dwarf lionfish
snowflake eel
raccoon butterfly
Reagal angelfish (adopted)
cleaner wrasse
A couple of clownfish (adopted)

A bit concerned about the wrasse but I've heard that copper at 1.75 is something they can tolerate but it's below the recommended 2.0. Any suggestions?
 

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Jay Hemdal

Jay Hemdal

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Now just waiting for my copper power to arrive. Will take out all the rocks before introducing copper.
Current stocking in the QT:
clown trigger
arrow trigger (adopted)
emperor angelfish
blue tang (adopted)
dwarf lionfish
snowflake eel
raccoon butterfly
Reagal angelfish (adopted)
cleaner wrasse
A couple of clownfish (adopted)

A bit concerned about the wrasse but I've heard that copper at 1.75 is something they can tolerate but it's below the recommended 2.0. Any suggestions?

I just wanted to confirm a few things here:

11 fish in your QT? Is the biofilter rock solid? If not, you are going to have ammonia issues that may well overshadow everything else you do with the fish.

Refresh my memory (replying to multiple people here). You are just treating as a preventative, you don't have any active signs of disease, correct?

As dosed, a full dose of Copper Power is 2.1 ppm. At the same time, it will produce a reading of about 0.50 ppm ammonia - so be aware of that in regards to my concern about the biofilter. People have reported that copper power, used below a full dose is ineffectual at stopping active disease. Some people have resorted to dosing at 2.5 ppm like Coppersafe.

Jay
 

hairyashell

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I just wanted to confirm a few things here:

11 fish in your QT? Is the biofilter rock solid? If not, you are going to have ammonia issues that may well overshadow everything else you do with the fish.

Refresh my memory (replying to multiple people here). You are just treating as a preventative, you don't have any active signs of disease, correct?

As dosed, a full dose of Copper Power is 2.1 ppm. At the same time, it will produce a reading of about 0.50 ppm ammonia - so be aware of that in regards to my concern about the biofilter. People have reported that copper power, used below a full dose is ineffectual at stopping active disease. Some people have resorted to dosing at 2.5 ppm like Coppersafe.

Jay
I am the guy who adopted a tank and putting all the fish + some new additional stock thru the QT process. Also the same person whose copper power shipment got delayed cuz of lost mail.

The QT has a sump below with biomedia from the adopted established tank so I'm cycled. I have filter sponges in the sump as well as additional surface area. The rocks and biomedia ( they are both the porous kind) will be taken out so as not to affect copper levels.

Yes I am treating as preventative measure. No signs of disease at the moment. All the fish are eating except the dwarf lionfish (picky eater I presume) which I am hoping will take to some frozen shrimps soon.
 
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Jay Hemdal

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I am the guy who adopted a tank and putting all the fish + some new additional stock thru the QT process. Also the same person whose copper power shipment got delayed cuz of lost mail.

The QT has a sump below with biomedia from the adopted established tank so I'm cycled. I have filter sponges in the sump as well as additional surface area. The rocks and biomedia ( they are both the porous kind) will be taken out so as not to affect copper levels.

Yes I am treating as preventative measure. No signs of disease at the moment. All the fish are eating except the dwarf lionfish (picky eater I presume) which I am hoping will take to some frozen shrimps soon.
O.K., sounds good then.

jay
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Do I need an airstone/spongefilter for oxygen if I have a HOB filter that dumps water into QT?
If it creates a good amount of air bubbles, that will work as a substitute. Be careful though, when you top the tank up, if you fill too high, the bubbles will stop and you will lose good gas exchange.
Jay
 

maleshka21

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2021 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough



Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank.

Quarantine tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.
  • Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
  • The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD
  • Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-absorbing sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
  • Heater/thermometer
  • Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
  • Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank.
  • A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate.
  • A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
  • Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.
Days 1 – 2: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.
  • Set QT temperature to 78 - 80 degrees F.
  • Acclimate the new fish to the QT:
    • Measure salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
    • Adjust salinity in QT to within 2 ppt of the salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
    • Acclimate the fish to the QT gradually over 45 minutes.
  • Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
  • Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.
Day 2: Begin Copper Treatment
  • Add Coppersafe to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.50 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use.
  • Never use ammonia removing products or other reducing agents (dechlorinator) when dosing copper. Most products bind copper with an amine to reduce toxicity to the fish. Reducing agents break that bond, releasing free copper that can harm the fish.
  • Feed and top off tank water normally.
Days 3 – 32: Continue Copper Treatment
  • Monitor copper ppm regularly. If fluctuations do not occur, you can skip day(s), but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you will need to restart the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
  • Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
  • If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes to correct the problem.
Day 34: Copper Done
  • Begin copper removal through water changes.
  • Zeolites such as Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process.
  • Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.
Day 35: Praziquantel Treatment #1
  • Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously.
  • Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label.
  • Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.

Day 40, Day 47: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3
  • Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label, 7 days apart.

Day 60: New Fish QT complete
  • Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose. Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10.
  • Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
  • Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.
have a question so for 32 days of copper treatment do you do water changes at all?
 
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Jay Hemdal

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have a question so for 32 days of copper treatment do you do water changes at all?
Yes, if needed to control water quality issues. You need to proportionally re-dose the copper in the replacement water.

Jay
 

hairyashell

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IMO - you just need to get the copper down to about 25% of a full dose or less.

Lots of folks use General Cure. I've checked, and as-dosed, the prazi in it equates to a full dose. However, don't repeat the dose after 48 hours like they say, but rather, dose again 7 to 10 days later (to try and break the fluke life cycle).

Jay
Hi again, Jay. For API General Cure or PraziPro, why is it recommended not to combine the treatment with copper? Is it to avoid stress to the fish?
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Hi again, Jay. For API General Cure or PraziPro, why is it recommended not to combine the treatment with copper? Is it to avoid stress to the fish?
Yes - I prefer not to run prazi and copper at the same time, it just adds another variable in terms of stress. If I suspect the fish have a severe fluke infestation, I might go with a FW dip and then back into the copper just to buy some time. Rarely do fish come in with severe flukes within the first 4 weeks, that's why I prefer to treat with copper first.
I know that some people dose copper and prazi at the same time, so it can be done, I just try to avoid it.

Jay
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Hi again, @Jay Hemdal. I'm curious... why the therapeutic level of copper cannot drop below 2.0? I mean what happens if it drops and why does the clock reset in such a case?
Well, I'm not sure where you got the 2.0 figure, it depends on what copper product you are using. Cupramine is dosed at 0.50, Copper Power is 2.1 (but people use it at 2.5) and coppersafe is dosed at 2.5. I would never run coppersafe at 2.0

There is no hard and fast rule that if copper dips below a certain level there is a complete time reset, that is an artificial factor developed to help ensure people run a full copper treatment. It is really a sliding scale, with the copper becoming less effective as the dose is lowered.

Jay
 

Logical_Plan

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Hi,

I have some procedural questions for my quarantine process. I intend to follow the 2021 protocol played out in this thread.

I have three, 20-gallon QT tanks running for cycling right now. HOB, heater, PVC pipe and and power head in each. I have 15 plastic cycled bio balls in HOB with floss that has also been in my cycling tank in a media bag. Two QT for fish, one for corals and inverts.

Copper HR checker to verify copper levels of system and copper water change water.

Tanks are all spaced 10 feet apart.

Questions:
1. Should I also add a sponge filter and air stone to the fish QT for additional oxygenation and bio filter area?

2. Can I keep one system for fish as copper and the second to transfer to for prazi once copper is done.

3. As long as a fish doesn't die in QT these systems can keep running without the need to sterilize between fish?

4. I assume it is safe to hold coral and inverts in QT at 81F for 76 days. Meaning, the temp is not too high? (Extra caution here on my part)

5. Do I need to remove copper completely between each 30 day treatment?

6. If copper is left in system, when a new fish is starting a new QT cycle, can it go into full strength copper straight from the LFS. (They run 1.026 same as my QT and do a 14 day copper QT)? This seems to skip the 1-2 day observation. Would it be better to put them in 50% strength copper then raise it to full strength the following day?

7. Will the prazi system bio filter die over time? Can I keep it running and just replace bioballs with cycled media from my display to replenish the bio filter?

8. Is there a better procedure? Keep the fish in the same system and do two large water changes 60-70% to remove copper and then cuprisorb and carbon to pull out the rest before prazi?

Thanks so much for reading and helping a new reefer out!
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Hi,

I have some procedural questions for my quarantine process. I intend to follow the 2021 protocol played out in this thread.

I have three, 20-gallon QT tanks running for cycling right now. HOB, heater, PVC pipe and and power head in each. I have 15 plastic cycled bio balls in HOB with floss that has also been in my cycling tank in a media bag. Two QT for fish, one for corals and inverts.

Copper HR checker to verify copper levels of system and copper water change water.

Tanks are all spaced 10 feet apart.

Questions:
1. Should I also add a sponge filter and air stone to the fish QT for additional oxygenation and bio filter area?

2. Can I keep one system for fish as copper and the second to transfer to for prazi once copper is done.

3. As long as a fish doesn't die in QT these systems can keep running without the need to sterilize between fish?

4. I assume it is safe to hold coral and inverts in QT at 81F for 76 days. Meaning, the temp is not too high? (Extra caution here on my part)

5. Do I need to remove copper completely between each 30 day treatment?

6. If copper is left in system, when a new fish is starting a new QT cycle, can it go into full strength copper straight from the LFS. (They run 1.026 same as my QT and do a 14 day copper QT)? This seems to skip the 1-2 day observation. Would it be better to put them in 50% strength copper then raise it to full strength the following day?

7. Will the prazi system bio filter die over time? Can I keep it running and just replace bioballs with cycled media from my display to replenish the bio filter?

8. Is there a better procedure? Keep the fish in the same system and do two large water changes 60-70% to remove copper and then cuprisorb and carbon to pull out the rest before prazi?

Thanks so much for reading and helping a new reefer out!
1) Yes, I always run sponge filters for exactly those reasons.
2) Yes, as long as you don’t overcrowd the tank. I typically don’t find the need to move fish though, I’m lazy and just leave them where they are, that’s why I don’t use TTM (grin).
3) Yes, as long as I don’t lose fish to an unknown disease, I never sterilize my QT.
4) Many people find their corals do NOT thrive at 81. I would use caution.
5) Not 100%, you’ll run into the law of diminishing returns trying to get to zero. A 90% reduction is fine.
6) Good question. Moving the fish is stressful, but if it’s already in full copper, I don’t see a need to lower the copper and then raise it back up again. Most dealers don’t run full copper so I’ve not run into that before.
7) Not sure I understand, prazi doesn’t harm beneficial bacteria.
8) Again, not sure of the question.

Jay
 

Logical_Plan

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You bring up a VERY good point! I missed that, as I don't use prazi as much any more. Multiple prazi treatments will REQUIRE that a tank be stripped and restarted in order to kill off the prazi-eating bacteria. Thanks for catching that.

This bacteria can remain active for months if not years. It got so bad for me that I've switched over to hyposalinity for all of my fluke treatments...

I still suggest Prazipro here because the typical home aquarist isn't running it enough times to get the bacteria really cooking.


Jay
Regarding question 7, it appears that it is a prazi eating bacteria is the issue, not bio-filter. Prazi tank will need occasional sterilization?

I am asking for planning purposes and I know it will change as I learn more. Bit nicer to start with a reasonable plan.

I am stocking 240 gallons worth of display over the next 2ish years, with QT wait times. Don't want to get into a process and think I am good while missing a detail. (That will happen plenty anyway)

-------

For the question 8 about a better procedure. If you had three QT tanks, one dedicated to copper, one dedicated to prazi and one dedicated to coral and inverts a reasonably optimized set up.

I only ever plan on QT two fish at a time per treatment stage, batch 1 finishes copper and goes to prazi tank. Batch 2 starts in copper after the move. Basically a continuous cycle through QT for the next 18 to 24 months to stock my display.

-----

Just for clarification on copper reduction and prazi, questions 2 and 5 and 8. You would QT the entire duration in a single tank and ultimately start prazi treatment with 10% of copper treatment remaining. Once that batch is done with both treatments and when starting again, bring copper back up to 2.5 ppm for the next batch?

I guess from a lazy standpoint keeping the copper tank at 2.5 ppm at all times seems easier, then move the fish to the prazi tank. Especially since I can pull stock from my LFS at 2.1 ppm Copper Power as they finish QT there. Perhaps a bit of a luxury for me in having a pretty good LFS.

----

Thank you for your kindness and patience in answering. Trying to figure this all out as a beginner with a system that is probably much too large to start with makes for many questions.

It is greatly appreciated.

Happy holidays!

-Eric
 
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hairyashell

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Well, I'm not sure where you got the 2.0 figure, it depends on what copper product you are using. Cupramine is dosed at 0.50, Copper Power is 2.1 (but people use it at 2.5) and coppersafe is dosed at 2.5. I would never run coppersafe at 2.0

There is no hard and fast rule that if copper dips below a certain level there is a complete time reset, that is an artificial factor developed to help ensure people run a full copper treatment. It is really a sliding scale, with the copper becoming less effective as the dose is lowered.

Jay
Hi Jay, I'm running copper power close to 2.5ppm right now, so as not to fall below 2.0ppm as suggested by your original post on this thread. I usually have to dose a small amount of copper every day to have it hovering around that 2.5 range and ensure never falls below 2.0ppm. Am I doing it right?

Also, I have a couple of cleaner wrasses in the tank, would you suggest to add a tray of crush coral sand for them? Although I am worried about it absorbing copper.
 

jmichaelh7

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Hi Jay, I'm running copper power close to 2.5ppm right now, so as not to fall below 2.0ppm as suggested by your original post on this thread. I usually have to dose a small amount of copper every day to have it hovering around that 2.5 range and ensure never falls below 2.0ppm. Am I doing it right?

Also, I have a couple of cleaner wrasses in the tank, would you suggest to add a tray of crush coral sand for them? Although I am worried about it absorbing copper.
You can put a bowl of sand and you will be fine. I did it for 30 days. Copper doesn’t evaporate either . Using ATO water without copper is the proper way.
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Hi Jay, I'm running copper power close to 2.5ppm right now, so as not to fall below 2.0ppm as suggested by your original post on this thread. I usually have to dose a small amount of copper every day to have it hovering around that 2.5 range and ensure never falls below 2.0ppm. Am I doing it right?

Also, I have a couple of cleaner wrasses in the tank, would you suggest to add a tray of crush coral sand for them? Although I am worried about it absorbing copper.
That's fine for copper power.

The cleaner wrasse don't need a tray of sand as long as they have pvc pipe to hide in. However, I am NOT a fan of cleaner wrasse unless they were collected in East Africa, the ones from the Indo-Pacific just don't do well long term.

Jay
 

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Ahhh, the memories! Just read through this thread and my time as a child with fish and a father with fish came back. :) Freshwater, by the way. I remember putting copper dish scrubbers in containers and jars for treating sick fish. Yup. Containers and jars. And we actually had a fairly high success rate! It boggles the mind. :eek: ;Shamefullyembarrased
 

hairyashell

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Hi Jay, I am currently using a sump in the QT and running copper. The sump contains some black sponges as filtration. After QT is over, would you say it's safe to use these sponges in the DT as they are already cycled ? Would there be risk of cooper leaching out of them in the long run?
 
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