cyano attack :(

[xiholdtruex]

Hello everyone, I have been battleing a cyano issue in my tank for around 4 weeks now,
My tank is a 12g nano cube, with 12lbs of brs reef saver, 10lbs of live sand , 6 Rock flower anemones 1 clown fish, 2 trochus snails, 6 turbo snails and 2 hermit crabs, water flow is at 106gph.

I was using a bad batch of salt water from my local store and my nitrates jumped up to 60ppm+
Started doing extensive water changes everyother day. added a bag of purigen and chemi pure blue,for the last two weeks started mixing my own salt water mix with 0TDS water and instant ocean salt, to ensure good clean water. I have been water changing every 2 days to combat the algea it seemed to get worse, I just siphon as much as I can ever water change and rinse out the 50 micron filter floss trying to remove as much organic waster as I can.

My current peramiters are at
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 5-10 ppm
Phosphate 0.03
pH 8.0
SG 1.024

should I try a 3 day black out? or any other advice is welcome. trying to nip it in the but without using chemiclean as to identify the issue.

 

[xiholdtruex]

After the wc and siphoning as much as I could out.

 

[mcarroll]

I have been battleing a cyano issue in my tank for around 4 weeks now,
My tank is a 12g nano cube, with 12lbs of brs reef saver, 10lbs of live sand , 6 Rock flower anemones 1 clown fish, 2 trochus snails, 6 turbo snails and 2 hermit crabs, water flow is at 106gph.

That's a lot of animals in a tiny tank – how old is it?
Dead rock and "live" sand or was it really live sand, as in "still alive from the ocean"?
Does flow seem like it's able to move detritus that hits the sand bed? You might even be able to see it tumble the occasional grain of sand if flow is really good.

Until I see those answers, my guess is this a new tank with too many animals just going through intense "uglies". If that's right, then waiting to add some of the animals was the right answer. Now the best course is to ride things out just like you are.....keep it siphoned out where possible, especially if it's encroaching on corals.

But if I guessed wrong and it's not a new tank, then I might have a totally different answer. ;)

 

[xiholdtruex]

That's a lot of animals in a tiny tank – how old is it?
Dead rock and "live" sand or was it really live sand, as in "still alive from the ocean"?
Does flow seem like it's able to move detritus that hits the sand bed? You might even be able to see it tumble the occasional grain of sand if flow is really good.

Until I see those answers, my guess is this a new tank with too many animals just going through intense "uglies". If that's right, then waiting to add some of the animals was the right answer. Now the best course is to ride things out just like you are.....keep it siphoned out where possible, especially if it's encroaching on corals.

But if I guessed wrong and it's not a new tank, then I might have a totally different answer. ;)

Tank is 6 months old, just added the turbo snails Friday to attempt to put a dent into the cyano as per local fish store, they wanted me to add 12 I'm like no way that's too much. The live sand is Fiji pink sand.

 

[xiholdtruex]

Snails started eating where I removed the cyano, I don't see any detritus there , I blow the rocks with a turkey baster before water changes.

 

[DangerDave]

Increased flow can help keep cyano down...

 

[xiholdtruex]

Increased flow can help keep cyano down...

Use to have a secondary power head but the rfas did not like it was much and the funny thing is where my strongest flow is ,is where the cyano is most prominent

 

[xiholdtruex]

Cyanis coming back again with a vengence, grabbed some mats and put it in a container with some tank water and peroxide to see what kind of bacteria is growing.

 

[cracker]

I'm following got the same issues ! getting worse after adding more flow. Good luck !

 

[xiholdtruex]

So The test did comeback positive for cyanobacteria, from my reading cyanobacteria can grow and thrive in tanks regardless of the nutrients and flow. When you remove or disturb the mats of the cyano it releases bacteria and actually causes it to spread -.- was reading into h202 dosing which is hydrogen peroxide in concentrations of 1ml per 10g every 24 hours to break down the cellure structure and not affect the animals in the tank. h202 breaks down into oxygen and water after 24 hours so it should be safe in low concentrations. If the water would have stayed clear it would have been spirulina and chemiclean would have been highly effective toward it :(

 

[40B Knasty]

The cyanobacteria could be feeding off of silicates in water. I am going try something with mine today. Picked up an egg crate long enough to fit over a 5g bucket. Snipped a hole in the egg crate to fit a filter sock. Going to siphon out the sand bed into the filter sock. Then dump the water back into the tank. Rinse out the sock. Then rinse and repeat every day. So I am not excessively doing water changes and pulling out the cyanobacteria on a daily basis getting the sand cleaner and cleaner. I was also recommended ROWAphos. It is the pure version of a GFO. It is a very aggressive removal of phosphates and it will remove silicates unlike Phosguard and common GFOs that do very little for that. I will let you know when I get the ROWAphos in on Thursday.

 

[40B Knasty]

If you have a sump with filter socks. You can just siphon it right into the sock in there and completely cut out the bucket idea. Then you could siphon out your sand bed for hours.

 

[brandon429]

don't dose peroxide into this tank. its not the right way, although its not particularly risky with the type of animals you show

peroxide threads show anemones to dislike it, that's one reason for the recommend and peroxide is indicated for other invaders, tank cleaning is indicated here and no form of medication.


if you take this tank apart, rinse out the sandbed, clear the rocks of clogging detritus and mats, then it will run perfectly. you are operating from the hands off, what type of water action can be taken angle. being direct is better here, because your tank is small and accessible

only large tankers have to dose something to the water and wait, you could be cyano free by lunch time today. You w have to follow up clean a few times for having delayed, but you'll see what I mean within a day if you undertake a custom rip cleaning run. tank w sparkle




all you have to do is rip clean your tank. right now if you reach in and grab sand and drop it, the color the water would turn shows your cyano fuel, we don't have to measure it in a param we can see it.

after cleaning, sand is cloudless perfection.



https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445



key details from that thread:

how many times did we need an id

how many times did we ask for or post or even use param measures

 

[xiholdtruex]

don't dose peroxide into this tank. its not the right way, although its not particularly risky with the type of animals you show

peroxide threads show anemones to dislike it, that's one reason for the recommend and peroxide is indicated for other invaders, tank cleaning is indicated here and no form of medication.


if you take this tank apart, rinse out the sandbed, clear the rocks of clogging detritus and mats, then it will run perfectly. you are operating from the hands off, what type of water action can be taken angle. being direct is better here, because your tank is small and accessible

only large tankers have to dose something to the water and wait, you could be cyano free by lunch time today. You w have to follow up clean a few times for having delayed, but you'll see what I mean within a day if you undertake a custom rip cleaning run. tank w sparkle




all you have to do is rip clean your tank. right now if you reach in and grab sand and drop it, the color the water would turn shows your cyano fuel, we don't have to measure it in a param we can see it.

after cleaning, sand is cloudless perfection.



https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445



key details from that thread:

how many times did we need an id

how many times did we ask for or post or even use param measures

I have removed all the mats before and siphoned all my sand , and underneath rocks and it came back with a vengence. It was my first course of action. Like you said the tank was small, the first week ,I cleaned out the entire tank and did a 70% wc, then every day after I was doing 20% wcs for two weeks. Been at it now for 4 weeks and no luck it just keeps getting worse. I have been cleaning out a 50 micron filterfloss daily and its full gunk.

I may do this again this weekend to see how it looks.

 

[xiholdtruex]

Only problem I see with this approach is it may have the opposite effect and help spread the cyano due to disturbing the sand with the bacteria.

The cyanobacteria could be feeding off of silicates in water. I am going try something with mine today. Picked up an egg crate long enough to fit over a 5g bucket. Snipped a hole in the egg crate to fit a filter sock. Going to siphon out the sand bed into the filter sock. Then dump the water back into the tank. Rinse out the sock. Then rinse and repeat every day. So I am not excessively doing water changes and pulling out the cyanobacteria on a daily basis getting the sand cleaner and cleaner. I was also recommended ROWAphos. It is the pure version of a GFO. It is a very aggressive removal of phosphates and it will remove silicates unlike Phosguard and common GFOs that do very little for that. I will let you know when I get the ROWAphos in on Thursday.

 

[brandon429]

How did the tanks fare after our tap water rinses in the big thread

If your sandbed can produce a waste cloud, it’s ripe for cleaning. If it’s cloudless, that’s the first one I’ve ever seen in an invaded reef that was a nano, it usually takes me pages to sell someone that rinsing a sandbed in tap water is ideal, not just slightly crazy. Without a thread that large the claim indeed would seem loco lol

At no time does deep cleaning or tap rinsing affect your bacteria (filtration bac) it does directly attack the cyano or spirulina though really well. We have the ability to cure any nano of any unanchored invasion using only the cleaning technique w no meds.

Your rocks cannot pass the detritus loading test of the later pages for sure, that’s another repository along with the sand. Both are addressed during a cleaning run (rocks not rinsed in tap, only sand, rocks get clean sw rinses)


Chemi clean would probably work here I’m not claiming our way is exclusive. It’s best though, because that waste houses dinos really well perhaps one day, and this can be the first time that tank was ever made to be cloudless. That practice in no hesitation total decisive action alone might save this tank from much worse future invasions too.

 

[xiholdtruex]

How did the tanks fare after our tap water rinses in the big thread

If your sandbed can produce a waste cloud, it’s ripe for cleaning. If it’s cloudless, that’s the first one I’ve ever seen in an invaded reef that was a nano, it usually takes me pages to sell someone that rinsing a sandbed in tap water is ideal, not just slightly crazy. Without a thread that large the claim indeed would seem loco lol

At no time does deep cleaning or tap rinsing affect your bacteria (filtration bac) it does directly attack the cyano or spirulina though really well. We have the ability to cure any nano of any unanchored invasion using only the cleaning technique w no meds.

Your rocks cannot pass the detritus loading test of the later pages for sure, that’s another repository along with the sand. Both are addressed during a cleaning run (rocks not rinsed in tap, only sand, rocks get clean sw rinses)

Oh no my sand bed was disgusting lol it looked like a cloud of detritus and poop and smelled even worse lol two days ago I was wc and siphoning the sand bed and did not have any cloud. After that the next day the cyano looked like it took steroids lol. So you literally take out everything and keep rinsing the sand bed till it's clear ? Like rinsing sand before use?

 

[brandon429]

Yep it would go exactly like this:

Catch any motile animals and house without rock alone in a bucket of the tank water half drained off, such as fish and shrimp in one bucket. Corals can go here if needed, but not with rocks

In a sep bucket of clean sw, house the invaded rocks that need cleaning.


Now the tank is literally only sand and water

Drain it all out, take the sand and rinse it for about one hour (takes that long to cloudlessness) and then final rinse on clean sand is saltwater, to evacuate the tap.

Vinegar and peroxide clean your whole tank and all the fittings n stuff back New. Clean off salt creep etc

Put sand back in perfect clean tank, it’s cloudless 100% no matter how you disturb or pour onto it. Rinse until it meets that condition

Be swirling your rocks around and changing that clean water in there to flush the detritus and cyano out of the pores. Be rough, use a high power squirt gun of saltwater if needed, jet the rocks clean creatively always w saltwater. This won’t kill worms or pods on them, it’s saltwater rinsing.

Reassemble the tank it doesn’t die or recycle it just runs clean. You may have growback to fight but it w be easy now with no waste to just hand siphon and keep it removed for a bit, then it will stop.

**it is that simple but we list times the cleaner ran wrong order of ops and killed the tank too, so watch out for mistakes. Not having enough of the waste rinsed out, and putting back sand cloud was no 1 risk. Be thorough


One guy put his reef back together over tap sand that wasn’t rinsed in salt, so new fish and corals put back got tap and some died, again a core step was omitted


We list counter supports too in the big thread: bluing up lights and turning down whites is a really big deal in suppressing your invader too, and topoff water verification. Since we can’t account for the myriad supports your invader might be getting, what we’ve done here above is engineer a way to clean every reef, any size, and never lose or recycle them. It usually beats invaders too

If not, if you have an invader from mars that a blued, cloudless tank still supports then you can move on to other options as a totally clean tank won’t prevent any other option from working whatsoever. I know the thread is headache long, but there’s critical loss avoidance details on those linked examples

We made the change to never housing shrimps and fish and corals alongside the rock to be treated due to unique loss that occurred when we used to have cleaners just store them all together as the sand is being rinsed, that thread has been back edited into using only the most up to date procedures for example. What we are doing is reliable if no steps are changed, I just prefer it to med dosing because this access technique can be used to beat anything, nice to practice on an easy invader.

The biggest difference here vs past actions is this is all at once, not partial. And the tank is demonstrably cloudless in the end. Here’s mine from last year, I’m about to tap rinse mine again soon there’s crud built back up.

Now this is a deliberate rinse: snow globe effect pure clean



Don’t worry about worms and pods in the sand they’re not helping now. Earn a sustained clean condition then buy some and put em back if needed, I don’t. They come back down off the rocks in time, I still have pods right now in my sand though in that video they’d been rinsed out

I get half a year of zero invader perfection off these reef dental cleaning runs.

 

[xiholdtruex]

Just read through the threads and links , that's some good info, could I eliminate the sand all together and go bare bottom if I wanted and have no issues with cycle?

Yep it would go exactly like this:

Catch any motile animals and house without rock alone in a bucket of the tank water half drained off, such as fish and shrimp in one bucket. Corals can go here if needed, but not with rocks

In a sep bucket of clean sw, house the invaded rocks that need cleaning.


Now the tank is literally only sand and water

Drain it all out, take the sand and rinse it for about one hour (takes that long to cloudlessness) and then final rinse on clean sand is saltwater, to evacuate the tap.

Vinegar and peroxide clean your whole tank and all the fittings n stuff back New. Clean off salt creep etc

Put sand back in perfect clean tank, it’s cloudless 100% no matter how you disturb or pour onto it. Rinse until it meets that condition

Be swirling your rocks around and changing that clean water in there to flush the detritus and cyano out of the pores. Be rough, use a high power squirt gun of saltwater if needed, jet the rocks clean creatively always w saltwater. This won’t kill worms or pods on them, it’s saltwater rinsing.

Reassemble the tank it doesn’t die or recycle it just runs clean. You may have growback to fight but it w be easy now with no waste to just hand siphon and keep it removed for a bit, then it will stop.

**it is that simple but we list times the cleaner ran wrong order of ops and killed the tank too, so watch out for mistakes. Not having enough of the waste rinsed out, and putting back sand cloud was no 1 risk. Be thorough


One guy put his reef back together over tap sand that wasn’t rinsed in salt, so new fish and corals put back got tap and some died, again a core step was omitted


We list counter supports too in the big thread: bluing up lights and turning down whites is a really big deal in suppressing your invader too, and topoff water verification. Since we can’t account for the myriad supports your invader might be getting, what we’ve done here above is engineer a way to clean every reef, any size, and never lose or recycle them. It usually beats invaders too

If not, if you have an invader from mars that a blued, cloudless tank still supports then you can move on to other options as a totally clean tank won’t prevent any other option from working whatsoever. I know the thread is headache long, but there’s critical loss avoidance details on those linked examples

We made the change to never housing shrimps and fish and corals alongside the rock to be treated due to unique loss that occurred when we used to have cleaners just store them all together as the sand is being rinsed, that thread has been back edited into using only the most up to date procedures for example. What we are doing is reliable if no steps are changed, I just prefer it to med dosing because this access technique can be used to beat anything, nice to practice on an easy invader.

The biggest difference here vs past actions is this is all at once, not partial. And the tank is demonstrably cloudless in the end. Here’s mine from last year, I’m about to tap rinse mine again soon there’s crud built back up.

Now this is a deliberate rinse: snow globe effect pure clean



Don’t worry about worms and pods in the sand they’re not helping now. Earn a sustained clean condition then buy some and put em back if needed, I don’t. They come back down off the rocks in time, I still have pods right now in my sand though in that video they’d been rinsed out

 

[brandon429]

If you run the method we’d love to link you there even if your invader persisted after the work, those aren’t cherry picked examples we had a few enduring challenges for sure. No losses though, none, when order of ops was set.

Yes B.B. is ok but I like the sand for its extra filtration surface area, it’s not hard to keep clean occasionally