Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[dwest]

Not too sure what my next step is now. I have been running a Jebao 55w steriliser forc3 weeks and things are a lot better. At first glance you wouldn't know I had dinos at all. My hammer corals are finally starting to reach their pre dino size and all other corals, fish and snails are doing great.
But I still get a fine brown coating on the sand as the day goes on and I blow this off with a turkey baster at lights out. However, it's not getting any better (but it's not getting worse either)
My phosphate level, which went really high after I installed the UV, has dropped back down to 0.15 and nitrates are holding firm at 20.
I'm thinking of dosing silicates but SpongExel seems to be unavailable in the UK. Is there any other product I can use?
Anybody suggest a plan to rid mysel of the last stubborn dinos?

An oldie but a goodie about silicates. You may be able to find “water glass” across the pond...

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/1/aafeature1

 

[dwest]

Good thought.

Yes I have my own RO/DI. I run a dual canister DI with sediment, 5 micron and 0.6 micron filters before the membrane. TDS of my source water is 35, after the RO is 0-1 and always 0 after the DI. Nothing changed there. Probably time to change my sediment filter but I can't imagine that would have anything to do with it.

I'm stumped but not upset at all unless it doesn't resolve like my initial start up diatoms years ago.

Salty, I’ll send this your way as well. I believe all salt mixes have measurable silicates, but that’s strictly from memory.... Although I bet your diatoms will go away.

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/1/aafeature1

 

[dwest]

Not too sure what my next step is now. I have been running a Jebao 55w steriliser forc3 weeks and things are a lot better. At first glance you wouldn't know I had dinos at all. My hammer corals are finally starting to reach their pre dino size and all other corals, fish and snails are doing great.
But I still get a fine brown coating on the sand as the day goes on and I blow this off with a turkey baster at lights out. However, it's not getting any better (but it's not getting worse either)
My phosphate level, which went really high after I installed the UV, has dropped back down to 0.15 and nitrates are holding firm at 20.
I'm thinking of dosing silicates but SpongExel seems to be unavailable in the UK. Is there any other product I can use?
Anybody suggest a plan to rid mysel of the last stubborn dinos?

Steve, I would try silicate dosing if you can. I removed my sand BEFORE I dosed silicates, but with I would have tried dosing first.

 

[dwest]

Do some salt mixes have silica in them? I've been racking my brain trying to figure out how I got a diatom bloom in a 3+ year old tank. The only change other than my increased nutrients and UV was that I changed to Red Sea blue bucket from Brightwell NeoMarine several weeks ago. Could that have anything to do with it?

Regardless, no dinos in the sand bed is worth the slight nuisance of the dinos, and I know they should go away on their own.

Yes, diatoms MUCH better than dinos!

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

An oldie but a goodie about silicates. You may be able to find “water glass” across the pond...

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/1/aafeature1

Yes, found some straight away. Thanks mate, very much appreciated as always.

 

[dwest]

Yes, found some straight away. Thanks mate, very much appreciated as always.

You are welcome. You can find more information about dosing in taricha’s amphinium thread. I grew diatoms very easily, but I was an anomaly. You may want to get a Hanna checker. Again, this info is in the thread.

 

[saltyhog]

Salty, I’ll send this your way as well. I believe all salt mixes have measurable silicates, but that’s strictly from memory.... Although I bet your diatoms will go away.

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/1/aafeature1

Thanks for that, good read. Looking in my sump today confirms all the silica using organisms are happy. Lots of sponges growing in the sump.

This makes me think....if I'm going to continue to try keep silica up to combat a potential dino return would it be acceptable to add some ornamental sponges?

 

[Jason mack]

Not too sure what my next step is now. I have been running a Jebao 55w steriliser forc3 weeks and things are a lot better. At first glance you wouldn't know I had dinos at all. My hammer corals are finally starting to reach their pre dino size and all other corals, fish and snails are doing great.
But I still get a fine brown coating on the sand as the day goes on and I blow this off with a turkey baster at lights out. However, it's not getting any better (but it's not getting worse either)
My phosphate level, which went really high after I installed the UV, has dropped back down to 0.15 and nitrates are holding firm at 20.
I'm thinking of dosing silicates but SpongExel seems to be unavailable in the UK. Is there any other product I can use?
Anybody suggest a plan to rid mysel of the last stubborn dinos?

I'm in Holland and I've just bought this from England I believe . On Ebay.

And if UV is not getting g then all then I would think that you probably had more than one type of dinos ..and if they stay on your sand then silicate is probably the best bet ..goodluck ....I'm in the same boat ..!!

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

I'm in Holland and I've just bought this from England I believe . On Ebay.

And if UV is not getting g then all then I would think that you probably had more than one type of dinos ..and if they stay on your sand then silicate is probably the best bet ..goodluck ....I'm in the same boat ..!!

Thank you. That's the exact stuff I have found.
I've done numerous tests of the sand bed and all I can see under the scope are prorocentrum. My sand bed is clear in the morning so they must be getting into the water column. I've adjusted the flow slightly to the UV to make sure that the light is completely immersed in water.
Hopefully that might help.

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

I've just been looking at old dino threads on here and came across one by Dana Riddle about the possibility of a light spectrum towards the blue end could actually cause dinos.
I never really seen much mentioned about light spectrum on here but I, and I'm guessing many others, run a very blue spectrum.
I'm just wondering if there is anything in this and what would happen if I drop my lights to around 6.5k?

 

[Jeff_H]

I could use some additional help, please!

Here's a little background before my question... My first post on this topic was back in November where I was attempting to ID the dinos in my tank (Post #5571 and #5576) It would appear I have 2-3 types present, but most/all go into the water column at night so I've been focused on the following protocol. All appeared to be going well until this past week after I did a couple of large water changes.

Things you might want to know about my system...
- I run the Triton Method so I only do water changes when directed by ICP testing.
- The total water volume for my system is roughly 150 gallons.
- My turnover rate is 9x-10x the display volume, per Triton recommendations.

My Dino Combat Protocol starting toward the end of November 2018:
1. I increased feeding and started to dose N03. My current No3 = 5ppm and PO4 = .06ppm (I did have PO4 to .14, before water change mentioned below
2. I started to dose several bacteria additives ( Microbacter7, ZEOback, Waste-Away, Prodibio) every couple of days.
3. I started dosing phytoplankton ever 1-3 days.
4. I purchased some sand activator and reef mud from IPSF, but it's still in QT for another month+.
5. I installed a 57W UV sterilizer in the Display and saw some good results, but I could not get ahead of the dinos so I borrowed a second 57W sterilizer from a friend a week ago and have both in the display running at about 260GPH each. That should be roughly 1 watt per 1.3 gallons which is on the stronger side of the recommendation.
6. I've been using a small powerhead to get the dinos in the water column 3-4 times a week and capture them in a 25-micron filter sock, or I just install the sock in the evening, night and early morning and capture whatever goes into the sump.

Unfortunately, my latest Triton ICP test came back with high Tin levels (found rust on an MP40 spindle) so I ended up doing two 40 gallon water changes this past week. After the first water change, I noticed a huge spike in the dino population and now it looks like I'm back to a bloom size similar to what it was in November. :mad:

I also started to notice over the past 1-2 weeks a green film growing on the sandbed that doesn't go into the water column at night. I thought it was algae or Cyano so I thought it might be a good thing to outcompete the Dinos. Today I decided to take a look under the microscope to see what it was, and to my surprise, I've never seen anything like this and can't find anything online to ID it.

**** Can somebody help me ID these green organisms?


Also, is are these dinos Coolia and Prorocentrum?

Thanks,

 

[Beardo]

I could use some additional help, please!

Here's a little background before my question... My first post on this topic was back in November where I was attempting to ID the dinos in my tank (Post #5571 and #5576) It would appear I have 2-3 types present, but most/all go into the water column at night so I've been focused on the following protocol. All appeared to be going well until this past week after I did a couple of large water changes.

Things you might want to know about my system...
- I run the Triton Method so I only do water changes when directed by ICP testing.
- The total water volume for my system is roughly 150 gallons.
- My turnover rate is 9x-10x the display volume, per Triton recommendations.

My Dino Combat Protocol starting toward the end of November 2018:
1. I increased feeding and started to dose N03. My current No3 = 5ppm and PO4 = .06ppm (I did have PO4 to .14, before water change mentioned below
2. I started to dose several bacteria additives ( Microbacter7, ZEOback, Waste-Away, Prodibio) every couple of days.
3. I started dosing phytoplankton ever 1-3 days.
4. I purchased some sand activator and reef mud from IPSF, but it's still in QT for another month+.
5. I installed a 57W UV sterilizer in the Display and saw some good results, but I could not get ahead of the dinos so I borrowed a second 57W sterilizer from a friend a week ago and have both in the display running at about 260GPH each. That should be roughly 1 watt per 1.3 gallons which is on the stronger side of the recommendation.
6. I've been using a small powerhead to get the dinos in the water column 3-4 times a week and capture them in a 25-micron filter sock, or I just install the sock in the evening, night and early morning and capture whatever goes into the sump.

Unfortunately, my latest Triton ICP test came back with high Tin levels (found rust on an MP40 spindle) so I ended up doing two 40 gallon water changes this past week. After the first water change, I noticed a huge spike in the dino population and now it looks like I'm back to a bloom size similar to what it was in November. :mad:

I also started to notice over the past 1-2 weeks a green film growing on the sandbed that doesn't go into the water column at night. I thought it was algae or Cyano so I thought it might be a good thing to outcompete the Dinos. Today I decided to take a look under the microscope to see what it was, and to my surprise, I've never seen anything like this and can't find anything online to ID it.

**** Can somebody help me ID these green organisms?


Also, is are these dinos Coolia and Prorocentrum?

Thanks,

The dinos are coolia and large cell amphidinium.
I'm not sure about the green organisms though.

 

[Jason mack]

I could use some additional help, please!

Here's a little background before my question... My first post on this topic was back in November where I was attempting to ID the dinos in my tank (Post #5571 and #5576) It would appear I have 2-3 types present, but most/all go into the water column at night so I've been focused on the following protocol. All appeared to be going well until this past week after I did a couple of large water changes.

Things you might want to know about my system...
- I run the Triton Method so I only do water changes when directed by ICP testing.
- The total water volume for my system is roughly 150 gallons.
- My turnover rate is 9x-10x the display volume, per Triton recommendations.

My Dino Combat Protocol starting toward the end of November 2018:
1. I increased feeding and started to dose N03. My current No3 = 5ppm and PO4 = .06ppm (I did have PO4 to .14, before water change mentioned below
2. I started to dose several bacteria additives ( Microbacter7, ZEOback, Waste-Away, Prodibio) every couple of days.
3. I started dosing phytoplankton ever 1-3 days.
4. I purchased some sand activator and reef mud from IPSF, but it's still in QT for another month+.
5. I installed a 57W UV sterilizer in the Display and saw some good results, but I could not get ahead of the dinos so I borrowed a second 57W sterilizer from a friend a week ago and have both in the display running at about 260GPH each. That should be roughly 1 watt per 1.3 gallons which is on the stronger side of the recommendation.
6. I've been using a small powerhead to get the dinos in the water column 3-4 times a week and capture them in a 25-micron filter sock, or I just install the sock in the evening, night and early morning and capture whatever goes into the sump.

Unfortunately, my latest Triton ICP test came back with high Tin levels (found rust on an MP40 spindle) so I ended up doing two 40 gallon water changes this past week. After the first water change, I noticed a huge spike in the dino population and now it looks like I'm back to a bloom size similar to what it was in November. :mad:

I also started to notice over the past 1-2 weeks a green film growing on the sandbed that doesn't go into the water column at night. I thought it was algae or Cyano so I thought it might be a good thing to outcompete the Dinos. Today I decided to take a look under the microscope to see what it was, and to my surprise, I've never seen anything like this and can't find anything online to ID it.

**** Can somebody help me ID these green organisms?


Also, is are these dinos Coolia and Prorocentrum?

Thanks,

Triton has trace elements in it , which the dinos will feed off ....have you tried dosing spongexcel ..or liquid silica solution ...that's what I'm about too try now .. I've also stopped dosing Triton..or rather mag and calc ...

 

[Jeff_H]

Beardo, thanks for the quick reply!

I'm a little surprised about the amphidinium ID since the sand bed appears to clear up at night and early in the morning. That said @reeferfoxx thought they could be as well. I guess there might just not be enough to be visible to the naked eye on the sand bed. I guess I get to start a diatom bloom now.

The green ones are really strange... They appear to have several flagella like tentacles, but appear to move with the weird wave action. creepy!

 

[Jeff_H]

Triton has trace elements in it , which the dinos will feed off ....have you tried dosing spongexcel ..or liquid silica solution ...that's what I'm about too try now .. I've also stopped dosing Triton..or rather mag and calc ...

Jason, I just ordered the spongexcel, and plan to start Sunday. Can you direct me to some material on needing to stop dosing Triton? I haven't run across that yet, but this post is huge and I've only read a small part of it.

Thanks,

 

[Jason mack]

Jason, I just ordered the spongexcel, and plan to start Sunday. Can you direct me to some material on needing to stop dosing Triton? I haven't run across that yet, but this post is huge and I've only read a small part of it.

Thanks,

I didn't get the info of here ...I believe I was told by my lfs and then read it when I was researching dosing dinoX ..which didn't work for me ..although I did notice a bloom again when I turned my Triton dosers back on ....I'm now waiting for some calcium hydroxide too dose instead of Triton while I battle dinos ...I've also removed my sandbed which has also helped somewhat with amphidiniums..

 

[saltyhog]

The green things almost move like amoebas!

 

[Jeff_H]

I didn't get the info of here ...I believe I was told by my lfs and then read it when I was researching dosing dinoX ..which didn't work for me ..although I did notice a bloom again when I turned my Triton dosers back on ....I'm now waiting for some calcium hydroxide too dose instead of Triton while I battle dinos ...I've also removed my sandbed which has also helped somewhat with amphidiniums..

That makes sense... By bloom got worse when I did the two lage water changes, which seems to indicate the dinos get a boost when they have certain trace elements. Thanks for the input, and good luck with your battle!

 

[Jeff_H]

The green things almost move like amoebas!

I've never seen anything move like that. If you look closely, there are flagellum or tentacles on one end. I hope someone can tell me if they are friend or foe.

 

[Beardo]

Beardo, thanks for the quick reply!

I'm a little surprised about the amphidinium ID since the sand bed appears to clear up at night and early in the morning. That said @reeferfoxx thought they could be as well. I guess there might just not be enough to be visible to the naked eye on the sand bed. I guess I get to start a diatom bloom now.

The green ones are really strange... They appear to have several flagella like tentacles, but appear to move with the weird wave action. creepy!

You are welcome.

The UV should take care of the coolia for you...at least it did for me. Something that helped for me was doing a couple days of lights out, just to keep them in the water column longer, combined with blasting everything with a small powerhead a couple times a day during the lights out.
Unfortunately the large cell amphidinium don't enter the water column. Mine just slowly faded over time.

Good luck