Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Beardo]

I've never seen anything move like that. If you look closely, there are flagellum or tentacles on one end. I hope someone can tell me if they are friend or foe.

My best guess on the green organisms would be euglena.

 

[Jason mack]

↑
I will also be trying this method ..unfortunately I cant get brightwell spongexcel...but I've found this on ebay

"
lucky you. much cheaper, bigger and more concentrated. I use the equivalent of that now - Si solution for microalgae from florida aqua farms."

@taricha ... any advice on how much too add ..too a 90g tank when using this .?????

 

[SteveO83]

For Large Cell Amphidinium only, anyone wanting to try dosing Silica to have diatoms outcompete the dinos as outlined in this paper previously discussed.

Brightwell SpongeXcel silicate source
Salifert Si test kit

I'm going to presume a 10 gal tank with 10ppm No3 = 2.25 ppm N

"1 drop per gallon of water increases ionic silica concentration by ~0.20 ppm."
Test (guessing zero Si)
day 1&2 - 5 drops (.20ppm cumulative Si)
Test (guessing zero Si)
days 3,4,5,6 - 10 drops (1.0 ppm cumulative Si)
Test (guessing some small amount Si)
days 7,8,9 - 16 drops (0.32 ppm per day, 2.0 ppm cumulative Si)
Test (no idea what it'll show at this point)

When It says "Test" I'd check for diatom growth, overall tank health, Si and N and P to see consumption by the tank to see if it's shifting.
If the Si keeps getting eaten up immediately, with no signs in tank changes, I'd continue upping drops by +5 drops per 10 gal every 3 days.
If something is happening like a shift toward noticeable diatom bloom, then I'd hold dose steady for a few days and monitor the relative amounts of diatoms/dinos.
If Si accumulates (I doubt, but possible) wait and see what happens around 0.5ppm Si for a few days. This is approximately the paper's Si levels.
If after a few days of monitoring at 0.5ppm Si, the dino growth is still much more significant than diatoms, then I'd continue upping the dose by +5 drops per 10 gal every 3 days, up to 1.5-2ppm Si then I'd hold/back off the dose. I wouldn't attempt to exceed around 2.25 ppm Si which is 1:1 Si:N at 10ppm NO3.
I suspect the system will start producing lots of diatoms well before you ramp up to a sustained 1:1 Si:N at 10ppm NO3.

Am I seeing this right? In order to dose silicates I have to have nitrates as well? Ive been dosing spongeexcel for 3 days with no signs of growth at all and amphi just chugging on along. 20g tank started at 20 drops then went to 10 for 2 days then did another 20 last night

 

[Jason mack]

Am I seeing this right? In order to dose silicates I have to have nitrates as well? Ive been dosing spongeexcel for 3 days with no signs of growth at all and amphi just chugging on along. 20g tank started at 20 drops then went to 10 for 2 days then did another 20 last night

Do you not have any nitrates then..?? ..in most cases dinos come when no3 and po4 bottom out ..so really you should already be dosing no3 and po4 if that was the case, too raise them ...
Silicate from what I've read is taken up quite fast in a reef tank ...if you have a lot of sponges and other things in your tank that uses them up ,then the diatoms won't get a chance to get a hold ...do you have a silicate test ...I would increase the drops by 5 pd...while testing as well and aim for 0.5 ppm..silicates ...and watch for signs of diatoms ...when you see them you dial back the dosing....this is how I understand it ..

 

[SteveO83]

Do you not have any nitrates then..?? ..in most cases dinos come when no3 and po4 bottom out ..so really you should already be dosing no3 and po4 if that was the case, too raise them ...

Have been dosing for nitrates and over feeding.

 

[taricha]

↑
I will also be trying this method ..unfortunately I cant get brightwell spongexcel...but I've found this on ebay

"
lucky you. much cheaper, bigger and more concentrated. I use the equivalent of that now - Si solution for microalgae from florida aqua farms."
@taricha ... any advice on how much too add ..too a 90g tank when using this .?????

it says 3.5ml per L of culture... lets assume "culture" is somewhere around guillard f/2 with Si. If so - 3.5 ml/L yields 6ppm SiO2.
aiming for a daily dose of .1ppm SiO2 would be .058ml/L multiply by 340L (90Gal) gives
19.7ml into 90 gallons. Then ramp up from there.
(this stuff doesn't seem very concentrated.)

 

[Jason mack]

it says 3.5ml per L of culture... lets assume "culture" is somewhere around guillard f/2 with Si. If so - 3.5 ml/L yields 6ppm SiO2.
aiming for a daily dose of .1ppm SiO2 would be .058ml/L multiply by 340L (90Gal) gives
19.7ml into 90 gallons. Then ramp up from there.
(this stuff doesn't seem very concentrated.)

Thanks for the help .!!!

 

[taricha]

I've never seen anything move like that. If you look closely, there are flagellum or tentacles on one end. I hope someone can tell me if they are friend or foe.

My best guess on the green organisms would be euglena.

agree with beardo. If you look closely in the lighter pigmented end next to the flagella, you can make out an orange-ish eyespot.

Here's a youtube video for comparison, shows them moving much like yours (check out 2:09). That's cool! never seen these in a tank before. Good guys.

 

[Jeff_H]

agree with beardo. If you look closely in the lighter pigmented end next to the flagella, you can make out an orange-ish eyespot.

Here's a youtube video for comparison, shows them moving much like yours (check out 2:09). That's cool! never seen these in a tank before. Good guys.

@Beardo @taricha - Thanks for the ID! I agree after comparing the videos... I only wish they ate dino! lol

 

[dwest]

agree with beardo. If you look closely in the lighter pigmented end next to the flagella, you can make out an orange-ish eyespot.

Here's a youtube video for comparison, shows them moving much like yours (check out 2:09). That's cool! never seen these in a tank before. Good guys.

Awesome!

 

[MTBake]

Hey guys,

I sure could use some help with a dino identification and plan action to get this under control. Been dealing with these for several months now. I finally got my hands on a microscope but still have no idea what I'm dealing with.

Here's a couple pics I managed to take through the microscope.

I haven't used a microscope in15 years or so. Im still getting used to how it works. I'm pretty sure this is 250x magnification. I can't find anything at higher mag levels than that.

Tank is 18 months old. Metal halide and led lighting. Lots of flow. A reef octopus hob skimmer and a carbon reactor are in use.

I dose sodium nitrate and trisodium phosphate to maintain levels. Along with 2part. No other dosing is being done.

Params:

No3 5
Phosphorus 12ppb (Hanna ulr)
Alk 8.3
Ca 420
Mg 1410


Any advice would be appreciated as these things are driving nuts.

 

[MTBake]

Double post.

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

Osteoporosis I think. UV sterilizer should be very effective.

 

[Beardo]

Hey guys,

I sure could use some help with a dino identification and plan action to get this under control. Been dealing with these for several months now. I finally got my hands on a microscope but still have no idea what I'm dealing with.

Here's a couple pics I managed to take through the microscope.

I haven't used a microscope in15 years or so. Im still getting used to how it works. I'm pretty sure this is 250x magnification. I can't find anything at higher mag levels than that.

Tank is 18 months old. Metal halide and led lighting. Lots of flow. A reef octopus hob skimmer and a carbon reactor are in use.

I dose sodium nitrate and trisodium phosphate to maintain levels. Along with 2part. No other dosing is being done.

Params:

No3 5
Phosphorus 12ppb (Hanna ulr)
Alk 8.3
Ca 420
Mg 1410


Any advice would be appreciated as these things are driving nuts.

I agree with @Steve Thompson, those are Ostreopsis.

 

[Pennywise the Clown]

I agree with @Steve Thompson, those are Ostreopsis.

Apart from my terrible attempt at spelling. Stupid phone....or that's my excuse anyway [emoji2]

 

[Dj City]

My new tank should arrive next week
The new tank is a result of a long hard fought dino battle that I lost.

Dinos are primarily in the sandbed.

I'm wondering if I go bare bottom on the new tank can I maybe avoid the problem in the future? Maybe be able to salvage my existing corals?

I would paint the bottom glass with a textured white paint to emulate sand.

 

[MTBake]

I've torn down tanks in the past due to problems I couldn't beat. 1st was bryopsis. The 2nd was torn down due to aiptasia and bubble algae. Now I have dinos.

I'm not so sure a restart is the way to go. Every time I've done that, I just end up with a new problem.

I'm going to try to battle through this. Just started up my AA Green Killing Machine. Hope it helps. Looking into perhaps a higher quality uv sterilizer. Not sure if I'll pull the trigger on one or not. Still researching options.

 

[Beardo]

I've torn down tanks in the past due to problems I couldn't beat. 1st was bryopsis. The 2nd was torn down due to aiptasia and bubble algae. Now I have dinos.

I'm not so sure a restart is the way to go. Every time I've done that, I just end up with a new problem.

I'm going to try to battle through this. Just started up my AA Green Killing Machine. Hope it helps. Looking into perhaps a higher quality uv sterilizer. Not sure if I'll pull the trigger on one or not. Still researching options.

I wouldn't go the restart route, no guarantee you don't end up in the same place. I understand the frustration as I battled them for 3 years before I was successful.
With ostis, UV is very effective. Doubt the green killing machine is going to be powerful enough to do much good though.
What size tank do you have?

 

[MTBake]

I wouldn't go the restart route, no guarantee you don't end up in the same place. I understand the frustration as I battled them for 3 years before I was successful.
With ostis, UV is very effective. Doubt the green killing machine is going to be powerful enough to do much good though.
What size tank do you have?

40 breeder. What uv sterilizer would you recommend?

And there's no way I'm restarting again. Unless I get a larger system anyway.

 

[Dj City]

Losing the dino battle was the perfect excuse to upgrade from 110 gallon tank to 180 gallon tank.

So...
Can anyone answer my questions about bare bottom and avoiding dinos again?
Can I salvage my corals by putting them in a bare bottom tank? I have amphidinium dinos.