Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Aqua Man]

Thank you for all the info in this thread. It has helped me know what I have and how to beat it.

It’s been a few months since I’ve seen any Dinos. My tank was/is phosphate limited.
Been dosing Nephos.

The question, Po4 still bottoms out if I don’t dose for a day or 2. Will I need to dose forever? No sand to bind it. Rocks should be full by now. I’m on my 3 rd bottle of neophos

Added dose of phos and measure 1 hr later and Hanna reads .026ppm. 24 hrs later 0 again!!!

Thank you again

 

[Kobooi]

I'll add my experience here - it's the same reply as in a dino ID thread I made, but not a lot of people would be looking at that thread I believe, as the ID was made.

Over the last week my dino infestation became worse and worse. Nitrates are 5 ppm and phospates 0.03 ppm, which is where I want them to be. I had the lights turned down (and only blues) during 2 days, but didn't want to turn them off completely. Tank looked like a horror tank, only some blue light and sand and rocks covered by dinos. Yesterday noon I got a UV sterilizer, a Deltec T5 20W to which I connected a Eheim compactOn 1.000 ltrs/hr. The actual throughput I measure is 600 ltrs/hr. I pump from and to the DT (300 ltrs) for now, so I have a turnover rate of 2 x per hour, and at this rate the intensity of UV radiation is 55.000 uW/sec/cm2 according to the manual.

The difference in just 24 hours is astonishing, so much even that 24 hours after starting the UV I turned my lights back to normal. Now, 5 hours after turning my lights back up, there is still no sign of dinos. I'm going to run the UV in the DT for another 24 hours, then move it to the sump, where I will run another week or so at 24 hrs/day and then reduce to 8 hrs/day or so.

 

[taricha]

The question, Po4 still bottoms out if I don’t dose for a day or 2. Will I need to dose forever? No sand to bind it. Rocks should be full by now. I’m on my 3 rd bottle of neophos

What're your export mechanisms?
Algae? Skimmer?

 

[ScottB]

I'll add my experience here - it's the same reply as in a dino ID thread I made, but not a lot of people would be looking at that thread I believe, as the ID was made.

Over the last week my dino infestation became worse and worse. Nitrates are 5 ppm and phospates 0.03 ppm, which is where I want them to be. I had the lights turned down (and only blues) during 2 days, but didn't want to turn them off completely. Tank looked like a horror tank, only some blue light and sand and rocks covered by dinos. Yesterday noon I got a UV sterilizer, a Deltec T5 20W to which I connected a Eheim compactOn 1.000 ltrs/hr. The actual throughput I measure is 600 ltrs/hr. I pump from and to the DT (300 ltrs) for now, so I have a turnover rate of 2 x per hour, and at this rate the intensity of UV radiation is 55.000 uW/sec/cm2 according to the manual.

The difference in just 24 hours is astonishing, so much even that 24 hours after starting the UV I turned my lights back to normal. Now, 5 hours after turning my lights back up, there is still no sign of dinos. I'm going to run the UV in the DT for another 24 hours, then move it to the sump, where I will run another week or so at 24 hrs/day and then reduce to 8 hrs/day or so.

Ostreopsis then, right?

 

[ScottB]

Yeah but when it starts getting covered in brown goop its hard to not do something. I'd like to put more corals in the tank but keep holding off until things settle down and get stable. I have nutrients, No3 about 10ppm and po4 around .09, I am also keeping alk, ca and mg inline that has not been an issue its the dino's and algae that have been the issue. I had GHA pretty bad but that is loads better, but this has been going on for several months just not sure what to do in order to get it over the hump. I thought the brown stuff was going to be dino's again, but looking under the scope they are not moving, starting to show up on my rocks now, sigh.

I am still basting every other day. Still "feel" like it is (in my case) feasting on weak coralline. Seeing/hoping some else comes along to knock it down. Acropora are doing fine. I am letting th water dirty up to see if I can grow some algae. Sounds weird, but in this system, GHA has never been an issue. (Yes Fate, I am tempting you.)

 

[Tony616]

Dinos finally receding for me after 2 weeks of battle. Here's what I did.

dose nitrates to 40ppm and phosphate to 0.5 (Yes! 0.5)
raised temp to 79-80
added UV to main display
manually blow them off the rock for 3 nights straight


I accidently overdose po4 to 0.5 but I think it help growing other algae to compete with dinos

 

[GuppyHJD]

If I have dinos - still trying to determine, can I use a turkey baster or a toothbrush to get off the rocks?

 

[Aqua Man]

What're your export mechanisms?
Algae? Skimmer?

Tank, 20 gl tall
Water change of 4 gallons every 2-3 weeks.

No skimmer, HOB filter for surface agitation, small amount of carbon in a mesh bag inside. Not running a filter cartridge anymore.

Very little nuisance alga

Do have a palm size chunk of blue olgo for decoration and see if it would help with nitrates.

FTS, tank is 7 years old. Appreciate your input!

 

[Aqua Man]

If I have dinos - still trying to determine, can I use a turkey baster or a toothbrush to get off the rocks?

Both work well for rocks. If on a coral, a small fine hair paint brush works wonders!

 

[Kobooi]

Ostreopsis then, right?

Yes.

Which type of dino is this (microscope pictures)

I have dinos on my sand bed since one week now. Started dosing H2O2 and will buy a UV sterilizer. Would anyone know what type of dinos they are - toxic or not?

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ScottB]

Yes.

Which type of dino is this (microscope pictures)

I have dinos on my sand bed since one week now. Started dosing H2O2 and will buy a UV sterilizer. Would anyone know what type of dinos they are - toxic or not?

www.reef2reef.com

Awesome images. What magnification? I have never seen a pic that highlights the outer shell like that.

Folks, that shell? That is why you need to run the UV so S-L-O-W. Otherwise these guys are barely getting a suntan. Running UV off your return is fine for peacekeeping work but not for full on dino assaults.

@Kobooi keep in mind that these guys are hanging out just waiting for another chance to outcompete. Letting nutrients drop or adding some nice sterile surfaces are perfect invitations. A year later, I can take a scrape under the 'scope and find a few every time.

 

[Garf]

Anyone tried dosing Guillards f2, and cutting out the middle man, apologies if this has previously been discarded. Just curious.

 

[AJsReef]

Still seeing groupings of air bubbles across the top of my rock work and some on my frag rack mostly upper third of the tank. I'm assuming these are amphidinium?

 

[ScottB]

Still seeing groupings of air bubbles across the top of my rock work and some on my frag rack mostly upper third of the tank. I'm assuming these are amphidinium?

Video showing movement would offer even higher conviction but yes, they look like LC Amphids. Not terribly toxic but have amazingly effective defenses. Keeping measurable nutrients and dosing Sponge Excel (to feed competitive diatoms) is the conventional treatment method. Leave sand undisturbed. Take out a bank loan and buy as much patience as you can afford.

 

[ScottB]

Anyone tried dosing Guillards f2, and cutting out the middle man, apologies if this has previously been discarded. Just curious.

Interesting. First reference I have read. Which dino species are you attempting to control with this? Can you briefly describe how you foresee it working? To build competition? Which competitors?

 

[AJsReef]

Video showing movement would offer even higher conviction but yes, they look like LC Amphids. Not terribly toxic but have amazingly effective defenses. Keeping measurable nutrients and dosing Sponge Excel (to feed competitive diatoms) is the conventional treatment method. Leave sand undisturbed. Take out a bank loan and buy as much patience as you can afford.

Thanks for the reply, they don’t appear to move much if any in motion. I’ll see if I can get a shot for sure... Barebottom tank, not sure if they would change much. Should I not disturb then on rocks as well? I’ve been blowing them off a few times a day

 

[Garf]

Interesting. First reference I have read. Which dino species are you attempting to control with this? Can you briefly describe how you foresee it working? To build competition? Which competitors?

Just sticking my nose in Scott. I’ve never battled Dino’s (yet), although my new tank is a bare bottom, dry rock start assisted with 2 lumps of previously used aquarium rock. There seems to be anecdotal stuff around about dosing Phyto, the acceptance that low N & P at least in some cases give Dino’s an advantage somehow. I think there’s gotta be more than one cause and I see no reason why it couldn’t be another nutrient which would be available in the f2. To be honest I was half hoping someone had tried dosing it, instead of Phyto as I can only see Phyto as a mechanism to deliver nutrients. I’d better read this thread from the beginning I reckon.

 

[JosephM]

I was told to share my story from another thread to here

I would like to share my experiences with others. This is all my opinion based on experience and reading. I don’t want to gather data but will if you guys would like, I’m just lazy lol. First off I want to start that ostreopsis dinos are over complicated. When I first ID’ed mine I was overwhelmed by the amount of contradicting information out there. Given that there are many variables in different tanks it makes sense.
Information on my tank and what I did:
I have a 29gal DT with a 20gal sump the system is about 3 months old. I have 40lbs of KP live rock, 40lbs of Carib sea live sand (unrinsed), filter sock, 2L of matrix, tiny HOB skimmer, chaeto, GAC reactor, and then return pump and it all starts over. I have 35+ frags currently (probably overstocked if you ask me but hoping to upgrade soon). I observe my tank atleast once a day for a few min. The key is to catch the dinos quickly. If you even think you have dinos, get a microscope. It only costs $17, including tax, to get a cheap one on Amazon that will work. I caught them early when they were only on a few corals. I let it go a little bit hoping my biodiversity would be enough to fight it back. When it start getting on all my corals and affecting their health I knew I needed to take action. I began by monitoring N03 and P04 daily. I recommend at least 0.05-0.12 P04 and at least 10-25 N03. Yes, I’d consider these high numbers but running these on my ULNS had no negative affect on my corals. I have a mix of softies, LPS, and SPS. I only did manual removal a couple times by siphoning water through a filter sock and back into the tank. I stopped because I was using 200micron socks which are practically useless against dinos. You need 50 micron or smaller to actively catch them. I began dosing MB7 at 2ml/10gal. Having my nutrients elevated that much I was starting to see great progress within a week or so. I installed a overpowered UV (36w) hooked up directly to DT running 200gph through it. Within a day or two the dinos were nowhere to be seen. I still have it running just to make sure. It’s also noted that I slightly lowered my light intensity and photo period.
Main takeaway:
•Don’t over complicate this: don’t freak out and start throwing everything in your tank. Starting a few days later with the right tools will likely save you in the long run.
•Go big on the UV, I used jebao, it doesn’t have to be anything fancy. Running it only at night versus 24/7 will have similar results since ostreopsis is mainly in the water column at night
•Get a microscope, you’ll use it many times throughout your ventures into this hobby
•Increase biodiversity - this can be through bottles bac, live rock, live sand, pods, live phyto. The more the merrier to help compete with the dinos. Be careful when adding some types of biodiversity such as bottled bac as they will sometimes result in a decrease in N03. Just be ready to dose to keep them elevated.
Things that I believe do not work against ostreopsis dinos (I would like to reiterate, this is what I think, my opinion)
•Black outs - you’re only hurting your corals and light dependent creatures more then anything. Ostreopsis dinos are extremely resilient and will go dormant at the lack of light but not perish. Hence why many that do black outs will see immediate visual relief but they’re back just as bad within days
•Hydrogen peroxide - I didn’t go this route solely because I don’t think it belongs in a reef system. But ostreopsis dinos have an armor that is known to be quite resilient against H202
•Lowering nutrients - this should be a given, dinos thrive in system that is stripped of N03 and P04. Keep them elevated
•Grossly over feeding - although it may give you the elevated nutrients you’d like you’re not only adding N03 and P04 you’re adding organics into the system that it likely can not handle. Since you should not be doing water changes while finding ostreopsis dinos I recommend dosing nitrates and phosphates (I use neonitro and neophos)

If I missed anything or if you have any questions or comments don’t be afraid to share
Hope this helps some people. Once again, my opinion on what has worked for me and the research I have done.

 

[GuppyHJD]

I was told to share my story from another thread to here

I would like to share my experiences with others. This is all my opinion based on experience and reading. I don’t want to gather data but will if you guys would like, I’m just lazy lol. First off I want to start that ostreopsis dinos are over complicated. When I first ID’ed mine I was overwhelmed by the amount of contradicting information out there. Given that there are many variables in different tanks it makes sense.
Information on my tank and what I did:
I have a 29gal DT with a 20gal sump the system is about 3 months old. I have 40lbs of KP live rock, 40lbs of Carib sea live sand (unrinsed), filter sock, 2L of matrix, tiny HOB skimmer, chaeto, GAC reactor, and then return pump and it all starts over. I have 35+ frags currently (probably overstocked if you ask me but hoping to upgrade soon). I observe my tank atleast once a day for a few min. The key is to catch the dinos quickly. If you even think you have dinos, get a microscope. It only costs $17, including tax, to get a cheap one on Amazon that will work. I caught them early when they were only on a few corals. I let it go a little bit hoping my biodiversity would be enough to fight it back. When it start getting on all my corals and affecting their health I knew I needed to take action. I began by monitoring N03 and P04 daily. I recommend at least 0.05-0.12 P04 and at least 10-25 N03. Yes, I’d consider these high numbers but running these on my ULNS had no negative affect on my corals. I have a mix of softies, LPS, and SPS. I only did manual removal a couple times by siphoning water through a filter sock and back into the tank. I stopped because I was using 200micron socks which are practically useless against dinos. You need 50 micron or smaller to actively catch them. I began dosing MB7 at 2ml/10gal. Having my nutrients elevated that much I was starting to see great progress within a week or so. I installed a overpowered UV (36w) hooked up directly to DT running 200gph through it. Within a day or two the dinos were nowhere to be seen. I still have it running just to make sure. It’s also noted that I slightly lowered my light intensity and photo period.
Main takeaway:
•Don’t over complicate this: don’t freak out and start throwing everything in your tank. Starting a few days later with the right tools will likely save you in the long run.
•Go big on the UV, I used jebao, it doesn’t have to be anything fancy. Running it only at night versus 24/7 will have similar results since ostreopsis is mainly in the water column at night
•Get a microscope, you’ll use it many times throughout your ventures into this hobby
•Increase biodiversity - this can be through bottles bac, live rock, live sand, pods, live phyto. The more the merrier to help compete with the dinos. Be careful when adding some types of biodiversity such as bottled bac as they will sometimes result in a decrease in N03. Just be ready to dose to keep them elevated.
Things that I believe do not work against ostreopsis dinos (I would like to reiterate, this is what I think, my opinion)
•Black outs - you’re only hurting your corals and light dependent creatures more then anything. Ostreopsis dinos are extremely resilient and will go dormant at the lack of light but not perish. Hence why many that do black outs will see immediate visual relief but they’re back just as bad within days
•Hydrogen peroxide - I didn’t go this route solely because I don’t think it belongs in a reef system. But ostreopsis dinos have an armor that is known to be quite resilient against H202
•Lowering nutrients - this should be a given, dinos thrive in system that is stripped of N03 and P04. Keep them elevated
•Grossly over feeding - although it may give you the elevated nutrients you’d like you’re not only adding N03 and P04 you’re adding organics into the system that it likely can not handle. Since you should not be doing water changes while finding ostreopsis dinos I recommend dosing nitrates and phosphates (I use neonitro and neophos)

If I missed anything or if you have any questions or comments don’t be afraid to share
Hope this helps some people. Once again, my opinion on what has worked for me and the research I have done.

Thank you for your post. Your last bullet item hit home, as both of my LFS first reply was "double your feeding" and "get more fish". It just seems to be an over reaction that will perhaps help with the dinos but lead to the next headache.

 

[taricha]

Anyone tried dosing Guillards f2, and cutting out the middle man, apologies if this has previously been discarded. Just curious.

It hasn't been tried, because the prevailing hypothesis for the elevating nutrients is that it shifts the limiting factor to be metals, which dinos seem to have a high demand for and don't compete well when Fe etc are depleted.