Firefish and qt

Mariners · Oct 22, 2017

hi everyone,
I currently have 2 firefish in a 13g qt, i started them w a 5m fresh water dip them on praxipro for 5 days, cleaned and redosed tank after 5 days more w praxipro. After day 10, i started using cupramine increasing lvls over a 2day period to match the 0.5 copper lvl needed. I would then clean the tank every 6days as there was no carbon or other media to leach out the cupramine. I would also add additional cupramine to maintain the 0.5 cupramine lvl after each cleaning- this has worked for me every time until...

After 13days of cupramine, i noticed that both firefish started to flash a couple times on the pvc pipes indicating possible ich of which i did not see any spots on fins or tail. I did notice both had a loose scale so maybe they were trying to dislodge them. Both do not show signs of hard breathing and have very healty appetites (ammonia, nitite, and nitrate lvls are 0). Suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I figured to be safe, qt them w cupramine for additional 2 more weeks (total of 27 days of curpamine possibly to long?) to be on the safe side.

Humblefish · Oct 22, 2017

I wouldn't be too concerned just yet. Some strains of ich can remain on a fish for up to 7 days before dropping off. If the trophonts fed for that long, it's logical to assume that the skin will still be irritated for awhile afterwards.

4FordFamily · Oct 22, 2017

Humblefish said:
I wouldn't be too concerned just yet. Some strains of ich can remain on a fish for up to 7 days before dropping off. If the trophonts fed for that long, it's logical to assume that the skin will still be irritated for awhile afterwards.

Agree. Could also be a type of prazi resistant fluke as well, but unlikely based on your protocol.

Mariners · Oct 22, 2017

Thx appreciate the input. Ill just leave them in longer in qt and continue to observe. I guess after 2 more weeks of cupra, ill do one more cycle of praxipro just to safe. Weathers warmer this week (mid to high 80s so at least that should accelerate ich cycle if it is ich.

cmcoker · Oct 23, 2017

Mariners said:
I would also add additional cupramine to maintain the 0.5 cupramine lvl after each cleaning-

Are you adding cupramine to the new water before your water change, or adding water to the quarantine tank and then bringing the copper level back up?

Mariners · Oct 23, 2017

I take some about 3-4 gallons of the old, then put in fresh saltwater and measure copper (using salifert and seachem to doublecheck one another). It usually measures from 0.3 to 0.4 and then add additional 10 drops of cupramine which usually gets it above 0.5.

ngoodermuth · Oct 23, 2017

Actually, it's better to add the copper to the bucket BEFORE adding it to the tank. Even a short dip into non-therapeutic levels can give those free-swimmers a chance to re-attach and restart the cycle (since copper only effects them in the free-swimming stage). IME, .3 is low enough to give them that opportunity.

You can test the copper level in the bucket the first time, to make sure it is .5. I use 10-11 drops in a 5 gallon bucket, so that sounds about right.

Mariners · Oct 23, 2017

Thx, ill try it today since it cleaning day. Make sense on keeping a continuous 0.5 lvl that way whereas my method there is a slight dropoff for a couple hrs before i apply more cupramine

Lninwa · Oct 24, 2017

I lost the 4 fire fish I tried they all died in qt. I didn't dose any copper or prazi. I thought it better to observe while in qt and treat if necessary

Mariners · Oct 26, 2017

Its the 3rd day since ive cleaned the qt tank and cupramines above 0.5 closer to 0.6, no labored breathing, healthy appetites and still flashing occassionally w no signs of white spots. I might give this 10 more days then i think ima switch to hyposalinity which requires constant attention and work uuungh!

cmcoker · Oct 26, 2017

Mariners said:
Its the 3rd day since ive cleaned the qt tank and cupramines above 0.5 closer to 0.6, no labored breathing, healthy appetites and still flashing occassionally w no signs of white spots. I might give this 10 more days then i think ima switch to hyposalinity which requires constant attention and work uuungh!

Why switch?
Flashing can go on during healing, your fish are tolerating it well so far...so long as you see the flashing improving over time, no new white spots, etc I would stick with copper. I would maintain it for 30 days, starting day 1 of treatment as the day after the last water change where you let the copper drop.

Mariners · Oct 26, 2017

Thx for the input, just frustrated as ive always used this method and nvr had an issue til now. No white spots ever spotted and for the 1st 13 days of cupramine no flashing and the weather was warm then which wouldve accelerated the disease cycle then bam! Flashing. Anyway, ill continue to maintain the cupramine and keep u guys updated.

Mariners · Oct 30, 2017

Update: its been a week since ive cleaned the qt tank, cleaning today and both firefish are still flashing intermittingly on the pvc. Good appetites, no laborer breathing and no visible ich spots and i have maintained the cupramine above 0.5 closer to 0.6. Its been a little over 3 weeks since ive had them under cupramine.

Should i give both fish 5-6 min freshwater dip when i clean the qt tank today or would that be undue stress ? Input or advice would be greatly appreciated, thx.

cmcoker · Oct 30, 2017

Are they flashing less than a week ago? If so I'd just stay the course and reevaluate in a week.
If it is the same or worse, I would defer to @Humblefish for a recommendation.

Has it been three weeks since the copper has been at therapeutic level continuously? Meaning how long since you switched to adding copper to the water change water, instead of redosing the tank back up? The first day they were exposed to copper at 0.5ppm, with no drops in the copper level, even briefly, is what I would consider day 1 of the copper treatment.

Mariners · Oct 31, 2017

Its been 2 weeks since as i started adding cupramine to new wc water. Did the same today and copper was slightly above 0.5 w the water change. They were quite irritable tho, fighting and then flashing today, so i decided to freshwater dip them which they handled very well (6m) and since then back to their piggy selves and so far no flashing for 3 hrs. So hopefully it keeps up.

cmcoker · Oct 31, 2017

Mariners said:
Its been 2 weeks since as i started adding cupramine to new wc water. Did the same today and copper was slightly above 0.5 w the water change. They were quite irritable tho, fighting and then flashing today, so i decided to freshwater dip them which they handled very well (6m) and since then back to their piggy selves and so far no flashing for 3 hrs. So hopefully it keeps up.

Ok, another thing you might consider is that firefish don't generally fare well with conspecifics unless they are a mated pair. I am not sure what their dominance displays to each other may look like, or if they are fighting or not. But that is also something to consider when observing their behavior..

Mariners · Nov 1, 2017

Thx, it was odd for us as we thought they were a mated pair cause the 1st 13 days they would always follow each other occassionally be passive aggressive by swimming or herding the other toward one part of the tank. They nvr bit each others tail but would sometimes have their mouths open to one another almost like angry kissing lol. Anyway, hope they get along cause as u say about the conspecifics, i already have a occelaris clown and a purple firefish. Ive read having 2 or more firefish can be hit more miss but the wife wanted them.