Hyposalinity for prazi resistant flukes?

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

I believe I have prazi resistant flukes in my tank...Wondering how to eradicate them and a method of treatment. How would I go about quarantining fish in hypo salinity? I have a good idea on how to do it, but I just want to make sure I do it correctly.

My Display is at 1.026 SG

And I have 1 10 gal tank set up for quarantine @ 1.026 sg atm.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Simply a freshwater dip will eradicate them. May have to repeat dip

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

Simply a freshwater dip will eradicate them. May have to repeat dip

Thanks! I can catch the clowns...But the goby is another problem.

 

[Dr. Reef]

run 2 more treatments of prazi, it will rid them. prazi itself does not kill flukes, it causes uncontrolable spazm. eventually it will rid them. Freshwater dip is an option but that doesnt rid flukes in tank or eggs that may hatch inf ew days.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I believe I have prazi resistant flukes in my tank...Wondering how to eradicate them and a method of treatment. How would I go about quarantining fish in hypo salinity? I have a good idea on how to do it, but I just want to make sure I do it correctly.

My Display is at 1.026 SG

And I have 1 10 gal tank set up for quarantine @ 1.026 sg atm.

The standard hyposalinity for Neobendenia flukes is 35 days at half salinity (so a specific gravity of 1.012 or a salinity of 16 or 17). You need to monitor the pH during this time. You can get the fish down in salinity in a couple of days, but you need to gradually raise them back at the end very slowly, I often take 5 days to do that.

Jay

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

run 2 more treatments of prazi, it will rid them. prazi itself does not kill flukes, it causes uncontrolable spazm. eventually it will rid them. Freshwater dip is an option but that doesnt rid flukes in tank or eggs that may hatch inf ew days.

I've already ran 4 doses...

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

The standard hyposalinity for Neobendenia flukes is 35 days at half salinity (so a specific gravity of 1.012 or a salinity of 16 or 17). You need to monitor the pH during this time. You can get the fish down in salinity in a couple of days, but you need to gradually raise them back at the end very slowly, I often take 5 days to do that.

Jay

Let's say during a hypo salinity treatment the pH gets too low...guessing anything below 7.8 pH, What would I do? Buy a pH buffer? Can I add something simple like hydrogen peroxide or something?

 

[DaddyFish]

Let's say during a hypo salinity treatment the pH gets too low...guessing anything below 7.8 pH, What would I do? Buy a pH buffer? Can I add something simple like hydrogen peroxide or something?

I suggest running hyposalinity at 1.009 - 1.010, and the 35-days is an absolute must. If you allow the salinity to rise above 1.010 then it starts the clock again.

I have used Brightwell pH+ and also used a sodium hydroxide solution through a doser to keep the pH 7.8+. If you have any algae or macroalgae in the tank it will die off quickly and that produces plenty of acid to plummet your pH. Be prepared to manage the pH every day or monitor and dose with automation.

Also, it almost goes without saying, all your inverts must be removed or they will die.

You may be amazed at how many 20% water changes with RO/DI it takes to get to hyposalinity. I usually spread them out over 2-3 days. Then as Jay said above, take about five days to restore salinity.

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

I suggest running hyposalinity at 1.009 - 1.010, and the 35-days is an absolute must. If you allow the salinity to rise above 1.010 then it starts the clock again.

I have used Brightwell pH+ and also used a sodium hydroxide solution through a doser to keep the pH 7.8+. If you have any algae or macroalgae in the tank it will die off quickly and that produces plenty of acid to plummet your pH. Be prepared to manage the pH every day or monitor and dose with automation.

Also, it almost goes without saying, all your inverts must be removed or they will die.

You may be amazed at how many 20% water changes with RO/DI it takes to get to hyposalinity. I usually spread them out over 2-3 days. Then as Jay said above, take about five days to restore salinity.

My plan is, I am going to put my 2 clowns and a goby in a 10g tank and treat it as a quarantine. First getting rid of these pesky flukes. I have 1 CBS and 10 cerith Snails in my display. But from what I've learned the flukes need a host to survive and will be eradicated past 30 days if no host is found. Ik the swimming stage only does in like a short time...but to eradicate all the stages...30 days. So while they are being quarantined I was hoping to fallow my 125g Display tank for 45+ days at 80 degrees to get rid of any other diseases in the tank. I feel as though I may have to add some type of nutrients so that my Coraline doesn't die as well as my inverts. I can probably just add food like if the fish was never taken out. But I'd like to eradicate the spionid worms aswell which prazipro did not kill. So yeah after the hyposalinity in my quarantine, I was hoping to raise it back up to normal salinity at 1.026. and then start a normal quarantine protocol following humble fish's thread. Unless I can dose copper while doing hypo salinity. Thoughts on this?

 

[DaddyFish]

Here's a look at the pH on a tank that's currently running hyposalinity. This is using Brightwell pH+ through a doser. That massive plummeting spike you see a few days ago is the last time I dosed Formalin. I've seen similar effects from Prazi and other meds as they cause massive bacterial kills or algae kills or both. My point is you should be prepared in advance of going hypo to actively manage pH, which is contrary to normal salinity advice.


Here's what a hyposalinity bacterial die-off looks like...

This is manual dosing using a buffer...

This is automatic/scheduled dosing every four hours... (the drop/spike was a Formalin dose)

 

[DaddyFish]

... Unless I can dose copper while doing hypo salinity. Thoughts on this?

I'm a bit confused about where you plan to run copper? Assume you mean in the 10-gal?

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

I'm a bit confused about where you plan to run copper? Assume you mean in the 10-gal?

Yes with hyposalinity at the same time if possible.

 

[DaddyFish]

Yes with hyposalinity at the same time if possible.

I would setup the 10-gal QT tank at 1.020 and toss them in. It's been my experience that most species handle 1.026 to 1.020 without issue.

Then 24-hours later go half copper. 24-hours after that full copper. No real need to run below 1.020 unless you are looking to insure rapid kill-off of any free swimmers too? I would not recommend running copper and 1.010 at the same time. That's pushing the envelope because copper needs to run for 30-days. I don't have problems dosing something into hypo setups that quickly dissipates or that can be quickly scrubbed away with carbon. 35-days of hypo AND copper makes me cringe a bit.

I should defer to @Jay Hemdal for a more educated answer on Hyposalinity plus Copper.

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

I would setup the 10-gal QT tank at 1.020 and toss them in. It's been my experience that most species handle 1.026 to 1.020 without issue.

Then 24-hours later go half copper. 24-hours after that full copper. No real need to run below 1.020 unless you are looking to insure rapid kill-off of any free swimmers too? I would not recommend running copper and 1.010 at the same time. That's pushing the envelope because copper needs to run for 30-days. I don't have problems dosing something that quickly dissipates or that can be quickly scrubbed away with carbon. 35-days of hypo AND copper makes me cringe a bit.

I should defer to @Jay Hemdal for a more educated answer on Hyposalinity plus Copper.

What about if I FW dip them for 5 minutes and them put them into my sterile quarantine at 1.026 and then run copper.

 

[DaddyFish]

What about if I FW dip them for 5 minutes and them put them into my sterile quarantine at 1.026 and then run copper.

That's a good plan. If you're just doing fish, they actually can handle meds and copper better at 1.020 than 1.026. 1.020 is less stress for them.

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

That's a good plan. If you're just doing fish, they actually can handle meds and copper better at 1.020 than 1.026. 1.020 is less stress for them.

Ok so...Take them out of my display, then Fw Dip them for 5 minutes, then put them into my quarantine at 1.020? Or should I keep quarantine at 1.026 and then gradually lower it over a day or 2 to 1.020? And then start copper?

 

[DaddyFish]

Ok so...Take them out of my display, then Fw Dip them for 5 minutes, then put them into my quarantine at 1.020? Or should I keep quarantine at 1.026 and then gradually lower it over a day or 2 to 1.020? And then start copper?

Since it's already established at 1.026, I would gradually lower to 1.020 and then start copper.
And here's wishing you good luck with your hospital tank treatment.

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Let's say during a hypo salinity treatment the pH gets too low...guessing anything below 7.8 pH, What would I do? Buy a pH buffer? Can I add something simple like hydrogen peroxide or something?

Peroxide won’t help the pH. You’ll need marine pH buffer. You do want to keep it above 7.8 - some people have a pH issue with hypo and others don’t.
Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I suggest running hyposalinity at 1.009 - 1.010, and the 35-days is an absolute must. If you allow the salinity to rise above 1.010 then it starts the clock again.

I have used Brightwell pH+ and also used a sodium hydroxide solution through a doser to keep the pH 7.8+. If you have any algae or macroalgae in the tank it will die off quickly and that produces plenty of acid to plummet your pH. Be prepared to manage the pH every day or monitor and dose with automation.

Also, it almost goes without saying, all your inverts must be removed or they will die.

You may be amazed at how many 20% water changes with RO/DI it takes to get to hyposalinity. I usually spread them out over 2-3 days. Then as Jay said above, take about five days to restore salinity.

Just to clarify - that is the hyposalinity regimen for ich, that is lower than what is needed for Neobenedenia, and is more stressful. If you are battling both issues, then of course do that, but for Neo only, it is gentler on the fish to go with half salinity.
Jay