Introducing Fish (No Quarantine)

[eatbreakfast]

So if you do choose to QT, do you automatically freshwater dip or treat with chemicals?

I have a large 40g breeder for QT, I also have a 10 and 20 if I have to treat fish. Right now I have a butterfly & a juv tang in the 40. I didn't freshwtaer dip or treat them & they seem to be doing fine. I was planning on leaving them in for 2 weeks and if no noticeable issues arrise, into DT they go. I didn't want to stress them out any more than the shipment did, unless I saw an issue.

That is one approach. However, it is possible that even though they are not showing signs of disease or parasites they may still be carriers and bring them into the DT.

 

[BantyRooster97]

so are you saying dip anyway? what about the drugs/chemicals? I hate to put them through something they don't need.

 

[eatbreakfast]

It's entirely up to you, but if you are not going to treat, then much of the purpose of qt is lost.

 

[ngoodermuth]

It's entirely up to you, but if you are not going to treat, then much of the purpose of qt is lost.

+1, you can QT for 6 weeks and still end up bringing something into your QT. Some fish have an immunity or only show very subtle symptoms that may be missed in observation, but they still carry those parasites and can infect other fish.

Also, many vendors are currently using copper due to the prevalence of velvet. The issue with this...it may be too low a level of copper, or they aren't treating long enough, or maybe even just not testing often enough to make sure it stays consistent. When this happens, the parasites can be suppressed only to pop up several weeks later, or longer [emoji15]

 

[Areseebee]

And some of those will lead you to believe it works just fine for them, yet many also seem to have "mysterious" losses from time to time that they don't really dwell on.

But sure, people have losses in QTs as well. I certainly have, but I would much rather have that than an empty DT.

This is a very important point. You should always take with a grain of salt any kind of first hand accounts of what is working and why. There is a really strong human tendency to interpret what happens around a narrative that is already believed, the more dug in the person is the worse it gets.

 

[Webslinger]

It is no secret. I have been writing about it for many years. I even wrote a book but the vast majority of hobbiests for some reason can't or don't want to get their fish immune which is why we have all these parasite threads.
There is a thread about it here. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a-discussion-on-immunity.209701/

Or this one. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/two-methodoligies-to-keep-a-reef-tank.226995/

I can't comment much on this thread because I don't do any of these things. It is an entirely different procedure to get your fish immune so to me, parasites and other diseases are a non issue.
But good luck whatever you do.

+1

My tank just turned 4 and I never quarantine nor would I ever. I have never lost a fish to disease. IMO buying healthy fish and immunity is the way to go.

 

[donnievaz]

Copper is the only medicine that will cure ich.

This is not true. Chloroquine Phosphate will cure ich as well.

 

[BantyRooster97]

I understand the possibility of something getting through QT. I just don't want to put the fish through anything unneeded. These drugs/chemicals are pretty harsh I'm sure. And a freshwater dip looks terrible for the fish

 

[eatbreakfast]

I understand the possibility of something getting through QT. I just don't want to put the fish through anything unneeded. These drugs/chemicals are pretty harsh I'm sure. And a freshwater dip looks terrible for the fish

Succumbing to a disease later on is far more permanant and harsh for the fish.

 

[donnievaz]

I understand the possibility of something getting through QT. I just don't want to put the fish through anything unneeded. These drugs/chemicals are pretty harsh I'm sure. And a freshwater dip looks terrible for the fish

Chemo and radiation are harsh on humans but sometimes they work...

 

[Coronus]

This is not true. Chloroquine Phosphate will cure ich as well.

I have read mixed reviews on Chloroquine Phosphate. Some say yes, others say no. When I read that, it means no to me. I have never tried it. So I can not mention if it works. I have used copper or Cupramine several times to fully 100% cure ich every time I have used it.
Without fail.

 

[donnievaz]

I have read mixed reviews on Chloroquine Phosphate. Some say yes, others say no. When I read that, it means no to me. I have never tried it. So I can not mention if it works. I have used copper or Cupramine several times to fully 100% cure ich every time I have used it.
Without fail.

I have used it and it worked for me and many others. To state that Copper is the only thing that works because that's what's worked for you is misleading.

 

[Coronus]

So

I have used it and it worked for me and many others. To state that Copper is the only thing that works because that's what's worked for you is misleading.

So it worked for you. Great! Copper is proven to work with out fail when following the guidelines. CP hasent reached that stage yet from what I have read. When I wrote that it's the only thing that will cure ich I meant 100% of the time. Not sometimes like CP. What I wrote is not misleading. How many times have you used it? Maybe you could explain exactly how you used it and on what fish? With out having to read a 50 pg thread. That would be helpful. I would def appreciate that.

 

[donnievaz]

So

So it worked for you. Great! Copper is proven to work with out fail when following the guidelines. CP hasent reached that stage yet from what I have read. When I wrote that it's the only thing that will cure ich I meant 100% of the time. Not sometimes like CP. What I wrote is not misleading. How many times have you used it? Maybe you could explain exactly how you used it and on what fish? With out having to read a 50 pg thread. That would be helpful. I would def appreciate that.

I used NLS ich shield (CP) on a Tomini Tang, Lawnmower Blenny, and at least one other fish that I can't remember. I followed the directions to the letter ( I don't remember the specifics) and simultaneously treated with Kanaplex to guard against secondary infection. The treatment worked. This was a while ago and I haven't had any other outbreaks since.

 

[Kmsutows]

Chemo and radiation are harsh on humans but sometimes they work...

True but we don't go around treating everyone for cancer as a precaution either.

 

[cmcoker]

So

So it worked for you. Great! Copper is proven to work with out fail when following the guidelines. CP hasent reached that stage yet from what I have read. When I wrote that it's the only thing that will cure ich I meant 100% of the time. Not sometimes like CP. What I wrote is not misleading. How many times have you used it? Maybe you could explain exactly how you used it and on what fish? With out having to read a 50 pg thread. That would be helpful. I would def appreciate that.

Check out wetwebmedia, Bob Fenner has many references to using chloroquine/quinine to treat ich in fish...
The issue is not whether chloroquine works, it whether you actually have pure chloroquine. So that is why it is recommended to get a prescription from the Vet and fill it at the pharmacy.

 

[Scarybo]

So

So it worked for you. Great! Copper is proven to work with out fail when following the guidelines. CP hasent reached that stage yet from what I have read. When I wrote that it's the only thing that will cure ich I meant 100% of the time. Not sometimes like CP. What I wrote is not misleading. How many times have you used it? Maybe you could explain exactly how you used it and on what fish? With out having to read a 50 pg thread. That would be helpful. I would def appreciate that.

I understand your point but I feel you have left off a few very important points. CP is very effective against Ich. It is just as effective against ich as copper. It is also easier to administer. Less chances of error. The problem with CP is it requires a Vet prescription. How many Vets deal with marine fish. Few. That is the reason you dont see the Hobbyist's experience with CP that you see with Copper. In time as more Vets and hobbyists are experienced with CP and the ability to acquire it you will see the same amount of success stories you see with Copper. This is the usual growth period you see with any new treatment, technology, or advancement.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

True but we don't go around treating everyone for cancer as a precaution either.

we regularly deworm horses, dogs and cats and edible livestock, and use frontline, interceptor and advantage..

 

[Areseebee]

I actually make my horses immune by feeding them blackworms.

 

[Webslinger]

So I take it you don't quarantine your horses.