Nitrite Toxicity

[Neoma]

Neoma

if nitrate spikes that’s ok, some reef tanks like Paul B’s run at 160 ppm


if nitrite spikes, doesnt matter at all, stop testing for it in display tank reefing

My recommend is to never own the test kit, it causes massive hesitation and repeat purchases and doubt across the spectrum of possible reef doubt

Funny, I hardly ever checked the stats in my 150

 

[Areeflover]

It's almost 20 ppm, and I just did a water change! also tested my tap water just to see if it's a viable source, it has 10 ppm nitrate! But I will be doing another tonight

So you use tap water not rodi? For your tank.

 

[rmurken]

So if my nitrates have spiked, is that going to be an issue? I am looking to replace my test kit, API is not giving me consistent readings

I have had good success with the API kit in FW, where NO3 just seems to run higher. It’s not precise, but it’s good for determining relative concentration above 10 ppm or so—“a whole bunch,” “some,” “a bit”; “a lot more/a lot less than last time.”

For a reef aquarium, I’d go with a reef-specific test (Salifert works for me; other fine options out there). API can’t resolve NO3 below 5 ppm very well. You want to keep nitrates from bottoming out, but with API it’s hard to tell if you’re very low, or if you’re at zero.

 

[Neoma]

What makes you prefer Salifert as compared to other brands?

 

[rmurken]

What makes you prefer Salifert as compared to other brands?

Nothing in particular. It seemed to be a really common one that just works. I didn’t see a lot of complaints or issues from other folks.

I’ve been pleased with it, and it’s simpler than the API test—no shaking.

 

[brandon429]

Will NH3 be converted to NH4?

The nitrate is an approximation, it may read 20 ppm on another kit we never mind nitrate for six months in my cycling threads, however it lands in a well fed well exported tank is good enough for the first half year or so. So , even on an Hanna checker , you wouldn't trust the result on

www.reef2reef.com

Dr. Zoidberg says nitrite has several toxic impacts in a reef tank above. Linked so we can track claims made against logged outcomes in nitrite-positive reefs.


I estimate to have completed five hundred logged/inspectable cycles completely made into reef tanks for others since being shown this thread. 100% of them are happy, happy reefs.

 

[brandon429]

@Lasse and @DrZoidburg have both directly stated that nitrite harms fish and causes early disease. Logging claims here so we can study all ends on the spectrum of nitrite positivity and or toxicity.


They have provided the first consequence claims for the nitrite levels a cycling reef tank will see


we wouldn’t link university studies here where nitrite was dosed to lethality, we’d link cycling reef tank studies so the context lines up for their claims. Post #2 on this thread sure didn’t leave the gate wide open for interpreting harm to fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Lasse and @DrZoidburg have both directly stated that nitrite harms fish and causes early disease. Logging claims here so we can study all ends on the spectrum of nitrite positivity and or toxicity.


They have provided the first consequence claims for the nitrite levels a cycling reef tank .will see


we wouldn’t link university studies here where nitrite was dosed to lethality, we’d link cycling reef tank studies so the context lines up for their claims. Post #2 on this thread sure didn’t leave the gate wide open for interpreting harm to fish.

I’m not sure exactly what you are asking about. I have never seen nitrite toxicity in marine fish. I routinely mitigate nitrite toxicity in freshwater fish by adding sufficient sea salt (i think this is safer than just NaCl).

All current references in my library say the same thing. The only ones that don’t, are just rehashing nitrite studies for FW fish.

Does this low toxicity apply to invertebrates? I don’t know.

What about reports of high nitrite harming fish? This is a chicken / egg issue. You can’t have high nitrite in a tank that didn’t recently have high ammonia. I think these reports are actually caused by the effects of high ammonia expressing themselves in the fish after the ammonia has started being converted to nitrite.

For stalled cycles, adding Coca Cola helps jump start the process - it supplies carbon and phosphorus. The caramel coloring is just an added bonus!

Jay

 

[brandon429]

we have not found nitrite presence to matter in cycling at all, including inverts, we cycle and track out so many new tanks now it’s easy to find patterns in the mix that support or deny nitrite toxicity

we can message entrants to our cycling threads years after startup now for retro-measure or at least some reported details that are similar tank to tank.

Lasse and DrZ feel it is toxic and that stress by nitrite presence is directly implicated in fish disease months later. Since the focus of my threads are stating clean end dates to cycles (we add bioload once ammonia is controlled, no other param needed to know of the classic three) we don’t really have a way to assess whether early nitrite stress contributed to brooklynella six months later in the clownfish but I think standard vectoring causes it and not nitrite stress.


people want to know the ethical start dates they’re allowed to begin reefing after assembly, after buying bottled bac, thats why nitrite battles persist daily in the chemistry forum and in the new tanks forum.


people who buy pre quarantined fish and add them to an all dry start tank with bottle bac (forgoes the fallowing process) want to know if nitrite toxicity impacts their allowed start date. I claim it doesn’t, based on pattern inspection not that I understand any chemistry of reefing at all.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

we have not found nitrite presence to matter in cycling at all, including inverts, we cycle and track out so many new tanks now it’s easy to find patterns in the mix that support or deny nitrite toxicity

we can message entrants to our cycling threads years after startup now for retro-measure or at least some reported details that are similar tank to tank.

Lasse and DrZ feel it is toxic and that stress by nitrite presence is directly implicated in fish disease months later. Since the focus of my threads are stating clean end dates to cycles (we add bioload once ammonia is controlled, no other param needed to know of the classic three) we don’t really have a way to assess whether early nitrite stress contributed to brooklynella six months later in the clownfish but I think standard vectoring causes it and not nitrite stress.


people want to know the ethical start dates they’re allowed to begin reefing after assembly, after buying bottled bac, thats why nitrite battles persist daily in the chemistry forum and in the new tanks forum.


people who buy pre quarantined fish and add them to an all dry start tank with bottle bac (forgoes the fallowing process) want to know if nitrite toxicity impacts their allowed start date. I claim it doesn’t, based on pattern inspection not that I understand any chemistry of reefing at all.

While I disagree that nitrite is in any way toxic to marine fish, it is a firmly entrenched idea. Back in the 1960’s there was a nitrite test kit made by Rila. It was commonly seen that color development in this test coincided with fish mortality. I believed this for over 20 years. Turns out this was a red herring, we didn’t have ammonia tests back then, it was the ammonia that was toxic, we just didn’t know.
That said - there IS an underlying issue here; aquariums with high nitrite are just nominally established. Ammonia can jump again, and all manner of new tank effects can be noted. There are important biological systems that also need to mature for a stable aquarium.
Jay

 

[brandon429]

edited here because very happy about posts from other threads/

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I disagree with some of that last part, we call start dates like clockwork and no cycle undoes itself, not once, tested with seneye accuracy nowadays

Not one time recorded has a completed cycle on seneye nh3 popped back out of compliance
Only ammonia control matters in cycling.

fish disease and nitrite, add it to your stickies in the forum that nitrite compliance is required for accurate disease control.

heres 1/10th of avail tracked cycles to message entrants and see if any start date was wrong/ loss of life in any case:

The microbiology of reef tank cycling.

You can skip your cycle. Ive been reefing online for twenty years and have never waited one second for a tank to cycle, because I buy rocks that are already cycled and move them home. Here's two: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/...

www.reef2reef.com

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

We should use the collective power of the chem forum to prove or deny the possibility of sustained .25 ammonia in reefing

Why does it matter if reef tanks can have stuck cycles? Because when you move homes you don't want to lose animals, cycling science needs precision and predictability in order to protect our tanks. perhaps an emergency setup is needed, no wait time permitted or If you are invited to show...

www.reef2reef.com

that is alot of cycles we can track out, only three threads, anything linked has a cycle issue and I stated a date the bioload would pass seneye testing.

Sorry - I don't understand this sentence:

fish disease and nitrite, add it to your stickies in the forum that nitrite compliance is required for accurate disease control.

What is "nitrite compliance"?

Jay

 

[brandon429]

Nitrite compliance in a cycle means waiting long enough before adding fish such that the tank has zero nitrite vs the levels we show below, those tanks are out of nitrite compliance


this thread is now taking a new direction by telling readers if they don’t wait months for nitrite compliance, however long the kit says to wait, that they’ll give their fish disease and have higher losses than cyclers who add bio load even if nitrite has not resolved yet

 

[DrZoidburg]

@brandon429 @Jay Hemdal

My thoughts on nitrite.

I wouldn't say it is not toxic. Even if acute or lethal it is still toxic. Found a few places for example that listed 96 hr, and 24 hr Lc50's. Which 50% of test subjects died within that time frame. Most are similar from 5 to upwards of 3000mg/L where 50% are dead in that time. That is marine...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

my threads are all cycling reef tanks which is the sole context we are looking for


doesn’t kalk have a toxicity level in reefing? It’s rather popular


why do we use it if a known level is toxic? Because reef tanks won’t see that level provided all machinery runs right?




nitrite isn’t harmful in the levels a cycling marine tank will ever see

 

[brandon429]

This is currently the only published material on nitrite in the context of a reef tank I know of

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.htm

someone ought to find out what Bingman thinks and post any writings he’s made.

 

[brandon429]

Readers


compare this outbound case study

New member + cycling fatigue

Hello all, I have enjoyed reading these forums while I planed my noob nano reef. I’m suffering from cycling fatigue so thought I’d introduce myself. 28 days ago today I set up my new nano reef in Sydney, australia, comprising: Waterbox 20 cube AI prime 16 HD Ai Nano 3 Reef glass nano skimmer (ins...

www.nano-reef.com

that reef is cycled and none of the fearful things he did like run a filter sock have any negation on the cycle


nitrite worry makes him want to give up reefing

nitrite worry made him want to buy more bottled bac, which is for ammonia control…nitrite factoring leads to dismay

now compare those results and the peer suggestions to these:

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

polar opposite: that’s sixteen pages of completed cycles, updates, and happy reefers we can send messages to so real follow up is possible. we used cycling reef tanks to look into nitrite toxicity


if you think disease is racking our cycles, message someone and ask them, post results here.

 

[Duncan62]

Hey guys I have an aquarium system that has about 45gallons of water cycling so I Let it cycle for about week and I added seeded marine pure ceramic balls and the bacteria in a bottle. I had no choice but to add my 2 clownfish from my quarantine into the tank.. because I needed to put a sick fish into it.. so I’m seeing nitrites and no ammonia.. I saw an article stating that nitrite to saltwater fish is hardly toxic almost to a point that a hardy freshwater fish is about 1000x more susceptible to its toxicity then an average saltwater fish. Should I do a water change or just let the cycle continue?

Nitrite is poison

 

[Cell]

Nitrite is poison

Not in saltwater.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Nitrite is poison

This is not correct in seawater. It is a misplaced concern carried over from freshwater systems.