petco purple tang rescue action

[Neptune1707]

Also don't forgot...any tools, nets, hoses, buckets...you use, clean and disinfect!!!! You don't want the smallest chance of contaminated ich water getting into your main display tank!

 

[Neptune1707]

I've read about hydrogen peroxide for parasite control, and even know someone who tried using it to eradicate ich in his DT. The problem is it would dissipate before it could eradicate the life cycle, or one time he dosed too high (to compensate for dissipation) and it killed some corals. So, in a weird sort of way CP & H202 have one thing in common: No practical test kit.

But it makes sense for it to be useful as temporary relief in a 1 hr bath solution, the same as formalin & acriflavine. I will look into it more for that purpose.

Of all the forums and knowledge there is about ich, how to treat/test with copper etc....a million dollar product would be some sort of test kit to test the water to see if ich is still in the water column....especially for those of us doing a fallow tank. Even after a 77 day fallow period...I still feel like I'm going to be crossing my fingers when I slowly reacclimatize my fish from qt. Sounds like someone needs to start a GoFundMe page on this LOL

 

[joshkirkland83]

TTM only works on ich, not velvet.

Which brand of copper do you use? If this works for you, I may substitute H202 for acriflavine the next time I treat a fish for velvet. Thanks for teaching an old dog a new trick and thanks for the shout out.

Humblefish, you should make some videos of setting up Q T, different medication regimens, and different dips.

 

[Humblefish]

Of all the forums and knowledge there is about ich, how to treat/test with copper etc....a million dollar product would be some sort of test kit to test the water to see if ich is still in the water column....especially for those of us doing a fallow tank. Even after a 77 day fallow period...I still feel like I'm going to be crossing my fingers when I slowly reacclimatize my fish from qt. Sounds like someone needs to start a GoFundMe page on this LOL

You could take a series of water samples and examine them under a microscope to look for theronts. Of course, if the infestation is light the odds of finding 1 or 2 stray free swimmers is minimal. Of course, the real Holy Grail is finding a reef safe "cure" for ich, velvet, etc. For that we probably have to pin our hopes on the aquafarming industry as they would have more to gain financially than the aquarium industry. As always, advancement is usually dependent upon financial incentive.

Humblefish, you should make some videos of setting up Q T, different medication regimens, and different dips.

I know. I wish I had more time in the day. In addition to helping out over here, I help run a local forum called Louisiana Reef Club. And then there's work, life, experimentation and a high maintenance wife to deal with.

 

[Russ265]

I've read about hydrogen peroxide for parasite control, and even know someone who tried using it to eradicate ich in his DT. The problem is it would dissipate before it could eradicate the life cycle, or one time he dosed too high (to compensate for dissipation) and it killed some corals. So, in a weird sort of way CP & H202 have one thing in common: No practical test kit.

But it makes sense for it to be useful as temporary relief in a 1 hr bath solution, the same as formalin & acriflavine. I will look into it more for that purpose.

hit the nail on the head in every aspect.
i have experience with h202 dosing in my display and i would notice my zoas and duncans would close. based on reopening time and amount i dosed i zero'd in on a happy medium for "my" tank and it happened to be 2ml per hour for my 300 system gallon tank. i ended up with this doseage after experimenting with up to 300 ml in 300 gallon bombs. (i was desperate to kill dinos)

it took a couple months before i was confident in that regiment.

the issues is here, i have nothing to measure peroxide ppm. it also varies based on equipment, bioload, lighting level, etc. so it would be impossible for a one size fits all solution.

however... if my main tank was infected, i would try this method first.

that all being said. we can limit the variables you speak of my by observation during a dip and intervene if necessary.

think we are on the same page.

 

[donnievaz]

@Russ265
I've got to say, when I first started following this thread I thought you were either an idiot, lunatic, or both. lol
I'm happy to admit that it appears I was wrong, you're a mad scientist. Rock on.

 

[ReefPiracy]

Are you using the peroxide in the FW dip? Or you doing a FW dip followed by hour of peroxide dip. I have seen many uses for peroxide dip. Never knew to use on QT. When I did a tour of divers den, I saw cases on cases of peroxide which was used for algae dip.

 

[Russ265]

Are you using the peroxide in the FW dip? Or you doing a FW dip followed by hour of peroxide dip. I have seen many uses for peroxide dip. Never knew to use on QT. When I did a tour of divers den, I saw cases on cases of peroxide which was used for algae dip.

fresh water dip: was 15 minutes. some fish like the copperband butterfly i wont go beyond 10.

salt water dip: 1 hour with 10ml peroxide

if i were to do it again knowing that it was velvet, i would have added 10 ml peroxide to the fresh water dip.

so to be clear: i wouldnt have an issue dosing 10 ml peroxide to a 15 minute fresh water dip nor a 1 hour saltwater dip.

i only demonstrated my confidence in peroxide's use if done in a responsible and knowledgeable manner.

 

[Russ265]

@Russ265
I've got to say, when I first started following this thread I thought you were either an idiot, lunatic, or both. lol
I'm happy to admit that it appears I was wrong, you're a mad scientist. Rock on.

i cannot take credit for this because i am basing it on several white papers. Most of them citing Brown's work.

This was back in 2004....

Treatment Option 12: Hydrogen Peroxide

This is one of the newest ideas for treating Amyloodinium ocellatum and, in my mind, one of the most interesting and promising as well. The first study used 20 juvenile Pacific Threadfin (Polydactylus sexfilis) suffering with an infection of Amyloodinium ocellatum. They were randomly divided into four open water tanks. One tank was the control and received no treatment. The control fish were examined and found to have a mean of 16.6 ± 16.2 trophonts per gill biopsy. The fish that were to be treated with varying levels of hydrogen peroxide were also examined and found to harbor a mean of 35.6 ± 38.7 trophonts per gill biopsy. Water flow to the three treatment tanks was stopped and they were dosed with hydrogen peroxide at concentrations of 75, 150, and 300 ppm. The fish were exposed for thirty minutes and then the water flow was returned to rid the tanks of the hydrogen peroxide. Within one hour of treatment, all the fish exposed to 300 ppm hydrogen peroxide had perished, but the fish exposed to only 75 and 150 ppm tolerated the treatment without any deaths. The surviving fish were examined immediately after treatment and found to harbor no more parasites. They were re-examined the following day. The treated fish were still infection free while the untreated fish were found to have an increase in the trophonts counted.

Another test was set up at the facility where the sick fish were obtained. Scientists used a grow out tank that contained fish infected at a rate of 16.3 ± 13.0 trophonts per gill biopsy. These fish were exposed to 75 ppm hydrogen peroxide for thirty minutes. One day after exposure, the trophonts' count dropped to 4.7 ± 0.6. After six days, the count was down to 1.0 ± 1.0. At this point, the fish were retreated with 75 ppm hydrogen peroxide for another thirty minutes. The day after the second treatment, no trophonts could be found. Because the study's participants were unsure of the effect of hydrogen peroxide against tomonts, they transferred the fish to a clean tank at this time.

Some of these same people then prepared an experiment on Mullet (Mugil cephalus) fry. They first studied hydrogen peroxide's effect on healthy fish. Three groups of ten healthy fish were exposed to 75, 50, and 25 ppm hydrogen peroxide for thirty minutes. After 24 hours, the survival rates were 20, 50, and 70% respectively. They then decided to test 25 ppm hydrogen peroxide on a large larvae-rearing tank. This tank held 3000 liters of water and approximately three fish per liter. The facility had been experiencing 200-1000 deaths per day from Amyloodinium ocellatum for one week prior to the test in this vessel, while the standard daily mortality should have been 0.002%. The fish were treated for 30 minutes with 25 ppm hydrogen peroxide. Within three days of the exposure, mortality dropped to less than 10 per day.

Now before you all go running off to the medicine cabinet, please remember that this treatment is experimental at best. It can easily be overdosed and cause mass mortalities. I would wait until further research has been performed to test the tolerance of various marine ornamentals to hydrogen peroxide exposure. Just to be clear, I am not currently recommending the use of hydrogen peroxide. If you choose to experiment and use it, you could very well be risking the lives of every inhabitant in your aquarium. I mention it only because it is promising, and as something to keep an eye out for in the future, after additional testing has been done. If you wipe out your aquarium with this treatment, don't come crying to me later.


source:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-07/sp/feature/index.php

 

[cowboy]

@Russ265 great work will definitely follow along. Gotta love H2O2 and it's many uses, This should interest @twilliard

 

[Russ265]

@Russ265 great work will definitely follow along. Gotta love H2O2 and it's many uses, This should interest @twilliard

and @brandon429

 

[brandon429]

hey thanks ive never seen much formal work on it

I like how carefully he's treading. 100 bucks says you go back in time, tell him you w dump 1:1 ratio of h202 per unit of reef water and your tank survives, and an invader barely gets taken out, and he bets no. stuff was nuclear risk back then heh

 

[reeferfoxx]

Best thing about this thread is the unconventional method is winning and the community doesn't know what to think about it. Love it!

 

[twilliard]

Oh my what's going on in here.. time to read the pages!

 

[Russ265]

48 hour update.

some things to note.
the stronger tang is still eating.
weaker one still has a somewhat fast breathing rate.
weaker one looks interested in food initially but does not eat.
no visible trophonts. (ich or velvet)
incredible improvement in coloration.
bacterial bloom is done.

now ive tried both algae pellets and mysis for the weaker tang. he pipes up for a minute, but he wont actually do the eating.

i can try both soaking in garlic or a smaller food like cyclopeeze to entice him to grab a bite but im still doubtful itll work.

if he doesnt eat by tomorrow evening, i will have a big problem.

 

[Sabellafella]

48 hour update.

some things to note.
the stronger tang is still eating.
weaker one still has a somewhat fast breathing rate.
weaker one looks interested in food initially but does not eat.
no visible trophonts. (ich or velvet)
incredible improvement in coloration.
bacterial bloom is done.

now ive tried both algae pellets and mysis for the weaker tang. he pipes up for a minute, but he wont actually do the eating.

i can try both soaking in garlic or a smaller food like cyclopeeze to entice him to grab a bite but im still doubtful itll work.

if he doesnt eat by tomorrow evening, i will have a big problem.

To be honest, i think shell be eating by tomorro. She looks like shes just setting in, not anxious other then the company of the other purple tang maybe somwhat of a distraction

 

[Russ265]

To be honest, i think shell be eating by tomorro. She looks like shes just setting in, not anxious other then the company of the other purple tang maybe somwhat of a distraction

based on your observation im going to make a rock wall and put the acclimation box on one side, and the weaker tang on the other.

at least it will narrow the reasoning down

 

[michellejy]

They look so much better than I expected. I've got my fingers crossed for you.

 

[brad65ford]

Hi OP! Congrats on your goals and focus to save them. I've seen this happen at Petco from time to time and they do offer then for cheap to get them out. At the moment i'm going through something similar and have already lost a Powder Blue tang but the rest of the tangs / angles are alive. Nice to see your doing a qt tank for them and i'm trying to treat my own system which has 0 corals and had most all the the fish effected by v or ich not sure which or both. I've ran Paragaurd for a few days which didn't really help much at all though now i'm dosing Mardel Quick-Cure which has Formalin, Malachite Green in it which seems to have calmed the fish down greatly. Only fish that doesn't look good is the majestic angel. From what i've read it seems copper / formalin and or hypo sal are the only cures though i'm wondering how much stress has to do with fighting the parasites in the first place. Any way you slice it it sucks, wishing you the best!

 

[adam_Lawrence]

Maybe try some live brine for the weaker one if you can get some. Keep up the good work. Love it!