Randy's Tank and Learn Thread

[Netfish and Chill]

Love this! Definitely following along for the journey!

 

[Troylee]

Thanks. I used external Iwakis for 20 years, but the efficiency was poor. I’d also like to use the heat from the submersible.

Anyone know of an actual case of a tank problem from a Sicce or Jebao breaking open and releasing metals?

I do not recall seeing an example. Just more fails of Jebao pumps than Sicce, but correspondingly less expensive too.

I’ve had sicce skimmer pumps swell and rust away in my tank before finally cutting out! I’ve never personally had any ill effects from it myself.. jaebo is what I run now and it’s been going strong for 2 years without a single hiccup! I personally love jaebo pumps and find them amongst the top ones out there for a fraction of the price! I mean look at bubble king and red dragon pumps they are priced outrageously and all they are, are laguna pond pumps with a red dragon sticker lol.. Laguna pond pumps can be bought for Pennie’s on the dollar compared to a rebranded one with a sticker on it lol..

 

[Sophie"s mom]

Welcome to Randy's Tank and Learn Thread!

First, why that particular title?

I started my last reef tank in August of 1995, and ultimately took it down in March of 2016, after more than 20 years of enjoyment. I’ve learned a lot since then, but not nearly enough. The title reflects the idea that this tank thread will be different than most, and will be focused around learning, both for readers and for me. As I proceed to set up and maintain a new reef tank, I will encounter all sorts of challenges that I will address extensively in this thread. Some recent days the list of challenges seemed endless. Some I’ve already encountered and gotten great help for, and will recount these in this thread. Future challenges will include things I’ve done before, and some I have not. For many of these topics, I will request input from readers on how to best do certain things, and what are the pros and cons of the various paths forward. Some will obviously be chemical challenges (e.g., what to dose and how and why, DIY materials of various sorts, etc.), but others will not be (e.g., what corals look best in white light). My intent overall is to first tell folks what I'm thinking of doing, gathering suggestions of how others think I might go about it, then doing it, tracking if it seemed to work, etc. My hope is that a wide range of folks will follow this thread, both to learn things they do not know, and to help with things they do. In many cases, each post I make will have a heading that summarizes it in a “topic of the day” type of discussion.

I won’t belabor the reasons for taking down my previous tank, but electricity cost was a big factor. Fast forward to today, and there have been huge changes in the reefing world, not least of which is more electrically efficient equipment. Rev (revhtree, owner of Reef2Reef) asked me a couple of times if I had an interest in restarting a tank, and I decided last fall that the time was right to start again. In discussions with Rev, he suggested that perhaps some Reef2Reef sponsors might be willing to help out, and that has turned out to be true. I want to express a very big thank you to three companies:

TBS (Tampa Bay Saltwater), providing their “package” of rock, sand, and some clean up crew

Tunze, providing powerheads (Stream 6105 eco), a skimmer (9410), an Osmolator 3, and an RO controller (8555)

BRS (Bulk Reef Supply), providing discounts on a wide range of items (still being set up)

As my tank story unfolds, there will be more about why I chose these specific items, how I’m using them, etc. An important thing to note is that these are the specific items I felt would best serve this tank. Folks may have noticed a bunch of threads I started recently asking for folks experiences with various things (e.g., lights, bulkheads, etc.). This tank is why. I made a wish list of items I wanted and Rev worked to find a way to help make it happen. Thanks, Rev! It was not the other way around, of a company trying to convince me to try something. I picked these things so it’s on me to have chosen correctly.

So let’s roll on, have fun, and learn together!

Wow! Randy, I am super excited for you! I am looking very forward to following this thread as well.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy when you are ready just pay for shipping and I’ll send you some corals on me! I probably wouldn’t be where I am today without a lot of your help!
I’m really interested in seeing how you combat the beginning algae blooms. Will you dose live bacteria to compete it? Or will you allow your nutrients build so it natrually defeats it in time ?
I always use bacteria, but struggle with low nutrients for a while!

Thanks very much!

I'll cover the nutrient plan in detail in later posts, but I'm not adding any bottled bacteria. The refugium has been getting ammonia dosed since I added macroalgae. Without an ammonia kit yet I have no idea what is happening, but I hope it is taking it up. It may also be growing some nitrifiers on the small rocks on the bottom.

When the first batch of TBS stuff arrives (live sand and base rock in early April), it will also certainly bring in its own bacteria.

I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't follow my own suggestion, so this is the overall plan:

Randy’s Thoughts on Nutrient Target Ranges

Thoughts on Nutrient Target Ranges by Randy Holmes-Farley Almost nothing in the world of reef aquarium chemistry causes as much discussion as selecting and maintaining ranges for nitrate and phosphate. Some aquarists want low targets, some want...

www.reef2reef.com

4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:

• Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
• Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
• Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
• Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One good thing about the temp feature is that it records the readings and you can go back 1,7,30 or 60 days. It will also notify you if it gets outside of the set boundaries.

Thanks! :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley paying it forward for all the help you always have provided me, I have no use for these dosing pumps and if you need any reef brite XHOs, I pulled them from my halides and won’t be using them, ever, let me know, their yours. Sorry, my stock pile of halides are off limits, lol. Unless you have some Ushio 10Ks you want to trade for 14 or 20’s lol.

Thanks very much, but I think I'm good on dosing pumps. I plan to use some BRS 1.1 ml per min dosers I have already for actual dosing and 2 x 50 ml per min BRS dosers for the AWC. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Irrespective of the brand and head pressure capability, I would go for dual return pumps for redundancy given that you may be away from the tank. Similar to heaters, I always run dual pumps for new builds.

I actually have an old, bow-front Oceanic 175g (build thread here) that I recently shut down. Love their build quality and glad you’re reviving it! :)

Thanks, I'll consider that. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy, did you finally get all your bulkheads leak free?
Hope the new system is fun and runs smoothly!

Ah, the bulkhead saga. For those interested, it's a story of high frustration with bulkheads not fitting the holes in the glass. Yes, with folks help and some bulkhead tools from Barr Aquatics and 3D printed by Beananimal, I think I have it under control. Notably, however, I've not yet filled the tank so leak tests were only with a few inches of water in the overflow. But I'm confident now.

Here's the whole discussion, and the key to solving one of the problems, aside from the special bulkhead nut tightening tools, was to get a special sized bulkhead from Lifeguard Aquatics that was just enough smaller than normal 1" bulkheads to fit through the holes. Special thanks to John Robbins for pointing those out. :)

These bulkheads are driving me insane!!!

I managed with some help to get my tank (heavy Oceanic 120) onto the stand. Now I have to install bulkheads through the stand bottom. Not easy, but I managed. Leak testing in the overflow: uh oh. 2 leaked right away, and one only showed drips 24 h later. I do not recall having so much...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[reefchi]

Thanks for sharing your journey with us @Randy Holmes-Farley As many have stated previously I will be following and curious how you tackle and approach any issues that come with first starting up and tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For example, I don’t have redundancy or monitoring of my skimmer. It’s reliable enough and if it stops working and nobody notices it’s not a disaster.

On the other hand I do have redundancy and monitoring for my tank temperature.

Agree on both points.

I will have automatic battery backup of the in tank flow. That's a plus of the Tunze powerheads I got since they can connect straight to a battery and automatically switch over in a power failure. Two 100 AH batteries will keep them running a decent period of time. No need for inverters. Nothing else will be on automatic backup power, but I do have an inverter if i am home and want to put, say, a return pump on an inverter for some period of time.

Skimmer, lights, heaters, cooling, dosing, ATO, and AWC all can wait for power to return. I do not think we have had a power failure lasting more than 24 h in the 34 years we have lived in this house.

Temp will have redundancy. I do not have them yet, but am thinking of this plan:

Two 300 w heaters with their internal thermostat, one controlled by a wi fi inkbird and a second plus the cooling coil solenoid on a second wifi inkbird. In deep winter, I'll see if I need more heat.

Thus, each heater has two temp limits (internal and inkbird) and I'm using two different inkbirds. The wifi aspect will help me know if there's a problem. The sicce pump temp measurement will as well. I think in most scenarios, neither heating nor cooling can send the tank into a danger zone faster than I can solve it.

 

[Futuretotm]

@Randy Holmes-Farley Disregarding alk and Ca

What would you dose in your tank? After reading your old articles, I would guess, just daily 5% water changes would do.... but now I see folks dosing Lugols/K+/even Mg!! and various other lotions and potions.......

 

[Reef-Engineer]

Hi Randy, it is Ben down in RI. I noticed Dong is selling an Abyzz return pump for a wicked deal, would likely be awesome for your system. I linked you on boston reefers to his for sale but wasnt sure how often you were on there.

Also, I know you had questions on Straton's in my Straton review thread, I am down in southern RI. If you ever make it down this way, let me know and you are welcome to check them out.

Lastly, I have ceramic media balls in my sump to help seed people's systems, if you would like any, you are welcome to a few.

Good luck with the build!

 

[backbayreef]

Skimmer: unless your skimmer has a built-in sensor, you might need an AutoAQUA Skimmer Security (or equivalent) to prevent overflow, esp doing recirculating CO2 scrubber. I have one for every skimmer I own and it saved me several times already.

https://a.co/d/dS7gJ29

Heater: speaking of redundancy, do you intend to put both Inkbirds & heaters in the sump or split between the sump and DT? I personally would like to split them for redundancy but aesthetically not pleasing. It’s unlikely that both of my returns will fail, which I will be alerted.

No doubt you’ll have a convo on tank monitoring and automation later so will hang tight for now. ;)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley Disregarding alk and Ca

What would you dose in your tank? After reading your old articles, I would guess, just daily 5% water changes would do.... but now I see folks dosing Lugols/K+/even Mg!! and various other lotions and potions.......

I’ve been debating that in my mind for a long time. I would use limewater/kalkwasser as I did on my previous tank, but don’t have enough space for both large kalk and ro/di storage, and I also want to use the Tunze osmolator for ATO.

I’m probably going to use AFR plus some extra trace (either diy or TM A and K). Also under consideration is just carbocalcium plus trace elements).

 

[rishma]

Agree on both points.

I will have automatic battery backup of the in tank flow. That's a plus of the Tunze powerheads I got since they can connect straight to a battery and automatically switch over in a power failure. Two 100 AH batteries will keep them running a decent period of time. No need for inverters. Nothing else will be on automatic backup power, but I do have an inverter if i am home and want to put, say, a return pump on an inverter for some period of time.

Skimmer, lights, heaters, cooling, dosing, ATO, and AWC all can wait for power to return. I do not think we have had a power failure lasting more than 24 h in the 34 years we have lived in this house.

Temp will have redundancy. I do not have them yet, but am thinking of this plan:

Two 300 w heaters with their internal thermostat, one controlled by a wi fi inkbird and a second plus the cooling coil solenoid on a second wifi inkbird. In deep winter, I'll see if I need more heat.

Thus, each heater has two temp limits (internal and inkbird) and I'm using two different inkbirds. The wifi aspect will help me know if there's a problem. The sicce pump temp measurement will as well. I think in most scenarios, neither heating nor cooling can send the tank into a danger zone faster than I can solve it.

Good thoughts. Sounds well covered. I’m a bit more focused on this than most people but even when my work schedule changes and I am back to a normal life, I think I’ll maintain my conservative approach because I know I will have periods of apathy and I also like not worrying at all when we take a trip.

Consider individual equipment failures too. Full loss of power might be rare but pumps stopping, leaks forming, etc have all happened. I am a bit obsessive about evaluating and mitigating the consequence of failure. It’s a lesson, learned mostly the heard way, that will stay with me for the remainder of my reef keeping days.

One last thing and I’ll stop. AWC…I had a dosing pump get wildly out of calibration because I bumped the tubing partially off the roller. I was removing more water than I was replacing and the ATO was making up the difference, for months and months. My reservoirs were large so I didn’t notice until I ran out of new SW. this corresponded with a period of apathy or other priorities. Because I wasn’t doing any manual water changes, I was not checking tank salinity. The consequences were bad. I won’t have AWC system again without a salinity/conductivity monitor or a routine of regularly checking tank salinity manually (which is not that reliable long term because I am human).

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

Thanks very much!

I'll cover the nutrient plan in detail in later posts, but I'm not adding any bottled bacteria. The refugium has been getting ammonia dosed since I added macroalgae. Without an ammonia kit yet I have no idea what is happening, but I hope it is taking it up. It may also be growing some nitrifiers on the small rocks on the bottom.

When the first batch of TBS stuff arrives (live sand and base rock in early April), it will also certainly bring in its own bacteria.

I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't follow my own suggestion, so this is the overall plan:

Randy’s Thoughts on Nutrient Target Ranges

Thoughts on Nutrient Target Ranges by Randy Holmes-Farley Almost nothing in the world of reef aquarium chemistry causes as much discussion as selecting and maintaining ranges for nitrate and phosphate. Some aquarists want low targets, some want...

www.reef2reef.com

4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:

• Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
• Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
• Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
• Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.

Sounds like a great plan. I also agree with the higher phos. I get worried when I get to .1 and when I get close to .3 I’ll start doing water changes

 

[TacticalBacon]

following along

 

[rishma]

By the way, Tunze 9410 is one of my all time favorite skimmers. Just works.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

By the way, Tunze 9410 is one of my all time favorite skimmers. Just works.

Good to know. I had seen many good reports on Tunze skimmers before picking it.

I’ll discuss the skimmer more later since I have not yet turned it on, but after an extensive discussion with Roger (Tunze) I went with the AC version.

The reason was the AC pump (including power supply and control of the DC version) may last longer, and if I could carefully have it in 6” of water, there would be no significant need for the ability of the dc version to control the flow. I’ll detail how I have the skimmer in 6” of water in a Brute can that has more than 2’ of water, but I can control the depth easily. Thus, I picked to go with AC. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Good thoughts. Sounds well covered. I’m a bit more focused on this than most people but even when my work schedule changes and I am back to a normal life, I think I’ll maintain my conservative approach because I know I will have periods of apathy and I also like not worrying at all when we take a trip.

Consider individual equipment failures too. Full loss of power might be rare but pumps stopping, leaks forming, etc have all happened. I am a bit obsessive about evaluating and mitigating the consequence of failure. It’s a lesson, learned mostly the heard way, that will stay with me for the remainder of my reef keeping days.

One last thing and I’ll stop. AWC…I had a dosing pump get wildly out of calibration because I bumped the tubing partially off the roller. I was removing more water than I was replacing and the ATO was making up the difference, for months and months. My reservoirs were large so I didn’t notice until I ran out of new SW. this corresponded with a period of apathy or other priorities. Because I wasn’t doing any manual water changes, I was not checking tank salinity. The consequences were bad. I won’t have AWC system again without a salinity/conductivity monitor or a routine of regularly checking tank salinity manually (which is not that reliable long term because I am human).

I understand that concern. I know from my history that salinity was something I manually checked regularly, and I frequently tweaked the pumps and/or new salt water salinity to maintain tank salinity. In the scenario I plan, I won’t be able to tweak the pumps independently, at least initially, because I want them in the same timer, but tweaking the new salt water salinity can make up for a reasonable mismatch. A large mismatch would require different timers.