Randy's Tank and Learn Thread

[mcarroll]

Return Pump Turnover Rate
[...]Does anyone see a reason to want higher than 1x turnover per hour?

Late to the party, but I actually read the whole thread, so wanted to share some "back comments"...

I know of some commercial guidance (maybe from Danner or Lifeguard?) that suggests 2x-4x turnover. 4x-5x was the old-school target I had been familiar with pre-reefing...then reefing took that to a crazy level during the pre-powerhead days. I'm interested to see how 1x works out....I'm with you that I don't think it will be an issue. (And an easy to solve one if it ever is.)

BRS Investigates showed IO wasn't ready even 24hrs later, using a powerhad and a heater.

IMO that says more about their mixing method than it says about IO. Powerhead and a heater...pthh.

It takes 5 minutes...as Randy has already pointed out. I did A LOT of 5 minute mixes when I was doing 5 gallon water changes every day, so I tested what worked for mixing and what didn't....no conventional mixing methods are very good at all. I made videos of the two best ways I found.

OK, thanks. I don't understand how phyto can consume detritus, but I understand the idea, and plan to implement it for other reasons anyway. :)

IMO that's not what's happening, but I'd be curios to hear if it was.

I wonder what % of photo survives to be eaten vs just breaking down in the system and releasing its nutrients.

The % that fails to be eaten can potentially be N-loaded or N-poor depending on prior nutrient conditions before it was harvested/fed to the tank.

If enough photo is being dosed, that (I'm)balance could be a factor in the tank's balance...in part, fueling bacteria/other microorganisms that do break down detritus. I suspect similar is at play when folks claim phyto has lowered nutrients. It has, but only indirectly.

I thought so too, but unfortunately got burned.

I think folks have a lot of hopes and expectations pinned to the notion of "pre-quarantined" fish. Even more than they have for fish that they QT, which is saying something.

4. Folks who said that teflon tape is not the best for pipe thread to pipe thread connections were right.

There is definitely room for disagreement, depending on what you're putting together. And it's always true that glue joints are the most reliable way to go.

If you're using parts from a mgr that says not to use tape (eg. Spears, IIRC), then listen....their parts won't need it as the threads are accurately tapered to squeeze together as the the parts seat together. Putting tape in there can cause a fitting to split as your fully tighten it.

But if you're using more consumer grade stuff (eg cheap threaded bulkheads) then thread tape can be extremely useful....3+ windings, maybe a lot more if I have issues.

I do think that if I go with ozone, it will be even less aggressive than I have in the past.

What make/model do you use....or who makes/sells ozone generators these days? Anyone you'd recommend? (Strange, I don't think I've ever seen one offered from a a supplier.)

Thanks, yes, I do expect detritus settling. There was a 1/2 to 1” thick mud of it in my sump last time.

What concerns would you have about a layer of detritus?

"Wasted" coral food. I liked my old open-sump setup because meant only one zone where detritus would collect. (Good flow in the display and low bio-load, so no detritus collected up there.)

That made it easy to mount a cheap Seio powerhead down there to keep detritus blasted into the nearby return pump.

This thread shows what a benefit that seemed to be for the corals near the return in the display:

Interesting variation in SPS growth​

That last part about low in the early am is purely a noise related comment and its impact on people who want quiet time then.

I don’t claim to have any special insight on flow and I encourage others to chime in with thoughts, but these are mine. I’ll have a lot more discussion once stuff is in the tank (starts next week with rock and sand) and I’m making decisions.

1. Optimal flow depends greatly on the creatures present. Those from the surf zone may desire, or at least tolerate, far more than those creatures from lagoons, for example.

2. Because optimal flow varies, a mixed tank (which I’m planning) provides extra challenges. Flow can be somewhat altered by placement of both creatures and pumps.

3. I am not sure of the rationality of low flow at night (unrelated to noise considerations). Good topic for discussion.

4. I’m also unsure how often a creature might like a flow direction change. Of course it may depend in the organism. Surf zone creatures may get a direction change with every wave. Lagoon creatures may only get direction changes with tides, so much longer times. Another good topic to discuss.

Optimal flow has at least as much to do with force of flow as GPH...probably more I would guess. Beneath a certain cm/s, flow ceases to be useful to the needs it serves in our tanks.

Some research I like seems to indicate what might be the lower "optimal flow" boundary, where it can still (eg) carry detritus. (Tunze's famous flow video is the only place I've seen pumps compared on this basis. Know of any others?)

The electric fence is for bears, which frequent the yard.

I thought you might say it was for 2-legged rats. ;)

Thanks. :)

The DI not costing a lot is a fair point. I’m just not sure it does anything useful in my situation. And if I have to dose silicate, then it’s causing more work.

Time is not a concern for me in making ro/di. I collect 100 gallons at a time, and the Tunze ro controller will shut it off if I forget (more on that setup later).

I do agree there’s a large water usage, but I’d use no more or less by using ro/di vs ro only. :)

I wonder if you'd consider going the other direction and using DI-only? No waste, and if your water is pretty good to begin with, maybe not TOO expensive either? Faster production is a side-benefit, but I understand there's no need for that per se. I've never used a setup like that, but I'm aware of them and a couple people who do.

Magnifica usually travel as high as possible to get as much light as they can, which is why people often try to trap them on a rock island where they cannot reach the glass. Since mine is partly bleached, it may be responding differently to light, but I hope it stays on its island.

I think this is behind the traveling....I suspect it's still not used to your lights AND recovering from bleaching. And the lights have been turned up since then, maybe more than once since quite a bit of time has passed.

While he may be able to handle more light theoretically, IMO he's not liking the light he's in. (Every other tank parameter seems spot-on too, so no reason yet to suspect something else.) If you didn't want to alter your light schedule, maybe consider providing some artificial shade to see if it calms him back down?

Microbiome Effect of Clown Hosting by Anemones

I was reading a bit on the relationship between clowns and anemones. Apparently, the effect goes beyond simple protection to each party, and includes changes in the microbiome on both the fish and the anemone.

Microbiomes of clownfish and their symbiotic host anemone converge before their first physical contact - Microbiome

Background One of the most charismatic, and yet not completely resolved example of mutualistic interaction is the partnership of clownfish and its symbiotic sea anemone. The mechanism explaining this tolerance currently relies on the molecular mimicry of clownfish epithelial mucus, which could...

microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com

Very interesting!

Seems like an extension of the fishes' social immunity....an interesting concept all the way around:

I raised the light from average of 50% intensity to 55% since the anemone clearly wants light, and I’ll up in again in a few days.

I also wonder if the Magnifica were getting more flow that he'd tolerate the light better?

 

[mcarroll]

Last thing I forgot to add...

Whatever you had growing that got labelled dino's didn't look anything like dino's that we get...wrong colors, wrong conditions, etc.

It was an algae bloom of some type, but looked like a healthy mix to me.

But we can't bet very sure "of what?" unless you want to add a microscope to your tool collection. ;)

Selecting a microscope has lots of great suggestions from around $15 and up. I'd love to know what's growing for your setup!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Magnifica Very Unhappy

yesterday it shrank up later in the day. It has not done that for a long time.

This morning it had released from the rock and was upside down on top of the Duncan below it. It was inflated like normal (see picks below) so I used my bare hand to gently try to move it back to the rock. The tentacles were sticky to both me and nearby rocks, but I got it back in place.

Now I have to guess what is wrong and try to fix it, but I’m at a significant loss to come up with something. :(

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I also wonder if the Magnifica were getting more flow that he'd tolerate the light better?

Maybe. I'm not convinced its currently too much light since the zoox has filled in, and when it went wandering last time, it climbed the overflow right to the top under the lights.

Could need higher flow and I may try that.

 

[Big E]

FYI, my friend is a Mag expert and he has all his mags up high on pedestals and they are getting absolutely hammered with flow, more than what SPS get............they never move.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FYI, my friend is a Mag expert and he has all his mags up high on pedestals and they are getting absolutely hammered with flow, more than what SPS get............they never move.

Thanks. I’ve raised the flow dome and so far it is looking fine:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Anemone not moving or shrinking the way it did yesterday. Could be the higher flow, or random.

Noise is also higher so I’ll have to find a way to get high flow with less noise from the powerheads.

In the meantime, this crab seems happy:

 

[Miami Reef]

How’s the anemone a week later?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How’s the anemone a week later?

It has stayed attached, and has moved to different spots on the island a couple of times. I’m just not sure what it is longing for. I might up the light in a few days.

 

[revhtree]

It has stayed attached, and has moved to different spots on the island a couple of times. I’m just not sure what it is longing for. I might up the light in a few days.

Crossing my fingers for you sir!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Crossing my fingers for you sir!

Thanks, Rev. Everyone is looking good:

 

[Miami Reef]

Thanks, Rev. Everyone is looking good:

Wow! The pink tips look extra prominent today. I see one of the clownfish is separate from the others. Is that how they are most of the time?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Wow! The pink tips look extra prominent today. I see one of the clownfish is separate from the others. Is that how they are most of the time?

Yes, although I’m not sure it is the division in the picture which is random. The smallest one often hangs out under the edges of the anemone while the other two go all over but especially around the top. I expect that smaller one is a juvenile and the other two already have progressed to male and female or will do so and are just dominant now.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Salinity Drop

I’ve been away for 10 days, and I found that before I left, I forgot to turn back on the AWC refill pump that I had been adjusting. Tank salinity is down to 32 ppt (sg ~ 1.024) since it was removing water but not adding any. All looks fine, but I want salinity higher so I’m reversing the situation, with just the refill portion running for a while.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Chlorine Removal by RO Buddy

I’ve been using an RO buddy for all water in this tank. I’ve replaced the di once and refilled it once. But I’ve never changed the other cartridges.

I have a new carbon cartridge ready to go, but instead of wasting money replacing ok cartridges, and since my paper test strips seemed to not be working well (no total chlorine in raw tap water) I thought it worth testing, so I bought the Hanna HI 711 total chlorine checker.

My water supply uses chloramine and the raw tap water read above 0.6 ppm total chlorine.

Testing the ro/di for total chlorine showed none (meaning the actual value should be 0.03 ppm or less). Thus, the ro/buddy is removing all concerning chloramine.

At some point I’ll test the ro rejection effluent water for total chlorine to see if there is any concern for the membrane, but for now I’m quite content with the current setup. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yellow Tang


The tank raised yellow tang from Dr Reef is doing great and really looks spectacular under the warm lighting I’m using. My wife commented this morning how nice it looks. :)

 

[jerricolaboy]

Yellow tang looks perfect! Like perfect color and shape

I also use a RO buddie and it works great. Big fan

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Anemone moved a lot in the last few hours. It just won’t settle down. I upped the light a little again, now averaging in the low 60 percent ranges on all channels.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Alkalinity

The alk is down to 7.15 dKH, so I upped the AFR dosing pump (nominal 1.1 mL per min) from 24 to 29 min per day, dosed at 9 AM. Still a low dose and the rise is expected as coralline begins to grow more and more.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Lighting Profile