Starting my Vodka Adventure

[kingfisherfleshy]

Some of you may have seen my various threads and posts on carbon dosing.

Well today I made the jump, and got myself some 80 proof.

I am going to keep this as simple as possible, and right now, the vodka is all I have.

I have API test kits for nitrate and phosphate...and that is part of the reason I am doing this.

My 125g new reef is going to be (already starting to be) densely stocked. Because of this, nitrates are somewhere about 5ppm and below 20ppm in my tank.

I would hope that by adding a small amount of vodka, I could keep these levels down, but not completely eliminate them.

I am going to follow reefkeeping magazine's suggestions on starting out, and potentially tinker down the road. The changes will be slow, and as long as I am getting a lighter color in my tests, I will be happy.

I also have issues with some SPS having poor color...whether this is due to water parameters (doubt it, they are pretty good aside from the higherish nitrates) or because there are some rhodactis mushrooms and a medium sized toadstool in there.

Weekly h2o changes of 20g for now, potentially upgrading.

I guess what I am asking is if people think that dosing a very small amount of vodka will help me keep these levels down between my weekly changes.

I want to learn some things, have some advice, and tinker this until it works right. Hopefully I avoid the low nutrient system, while still seeing the benefits of lower phos and nitrates.

 

[Tabasco1]

Good luck! Definately post a follow up of your results and how the process progressed. Are you planning on dosing manually?

 

[kingfisherfleshy]

Yes, I will be using a syringe just to start with. Eventually when I need more automation I might try a dosing pump.

Im thinking I am going to have to spring for a phoschecker, but going to try to use my API one now to see if I can get a clear result.

I will also try to photograph my corals to show if there is any noticeable difference in color, PE, etc.

Recommendations or any other advice would be highly appreciated.

MB7 or amino acids needed in this situation? Or no because Im not trying to go completely low nutrient?

 

[CJO]

Can't help with the vodka dosing, but might be able to help in other ways. What is the issue with your SPS colors? Nitrates don't usually affect the colors unless they are really high. High levels of phosphate can cause corals to brown or dull. Too low levels of nitrates can cause the colors to take on a pastel look (somewhat like bleaching). Insufficient levels of other micronutrients or low flow rates can cause them to lose their brilliant colors. Hope this helps.

CJ

 

[Aquaph8]

Just go slow man. Watch your corals for any changes and make all changes very gradual. Dont panic if you see some cyano cause its pretty common when you start vodka. You might consider adding vinegar to your mix too. I've seen a lot better results after combining vinegar in my dosing schedule. Let us know how it goes.

 

[kingfisherfleshy]

Can't help with the vodka dosing, but might be able to help in other ways. What is the issue with your SPS colors? Nitrates don't usually affect the colors unless they are really high. High levels of phosphate can cause corals to brown or dull. Too low levels of nitrates can cause the colors to take on a pastel look (somewhat like bleaching). Insufficient levels of other micronutrients or low flow rates can cause them to lose their brilliant colors. Hope this helps.

CJ

About to go and test phosphate and nitrate before todays h2o change. I will perform a 20g change, and then test again. Both results will be posted.

Some of my sps are browning out. My green slimer isnt as green as it was in my old tank.

I think that PE could probably be better. Along with some numbers, I will also be posting some pictures of my various sps to go along with this thread...there isnt much, this tank still isnt done being stocked with fish, although it will be shortly, and once h2o quality is really in line after that, I will finish the coral stocking.

Flow is insaneo. This shouldnt be a worry, I dont think h2o quality is an issue, other than what I said. Today will be my first phostest, and I am most likely going to be ordering a checker in the next couple days.

There isnt much in the way of coral yet in this tank, micro nutrients abound I am willing to bet with 20g h2o changes a week on a 125g tank.

I run carbon, and have an aquacEV400 running on this tank. Sump is a 55g tank. Water temp is 78.X.

Only thing that it might be is there are a couple shrooms hiding here and there, and about 5 small rhodactis (I inherited these along with getting a free 125g, a small price to pay. I also have one small/medium toadstool coral. Dont know if this could be causing the browning.

Either way, I would like to see if my idea of doing a very small amount of vodka dosing would help with that, and possibly with keeping my nitrates...lower in between weekly h2o changes.

Just go slow man. Watch your corals for any changes and make all changes very gradual. Dont panic if you see some cyano cause its pretty common when you start vodka. You might consider adding vinegar to your mix too. I've seen a lot better results after combining vinegar in my dosing schedule. Let us know how it goes.

For now I am just starting with vodka. As mentioned before, I am open to the suggestions of AA and MB7, and anything else.

Could you explain why you add vinegar? What do you think the benefits are? Off to do some testing and an h2o change...Ill post back when finished.

 

[Aquaph8]

For me Vinegar is great cause its about 8 times weeker than vodka. I can ramp the dosage up at a slower rate if I choose to. I noticed less cyano with the addition of vinegar and it great to have a jug on hand for other uses like cleaning powerheads too. Some say that having two different carbon sources will give you more diversity as far as bacteria goes (just like the use of probido or MB7 etc.....) True or not I dont know.

 

[kingfisherfleshy]

Well I did some testing.

Before H2O Change:

Phos: 0-0.25
Nitrate: 10-20

After H2O Change:

Phos: Not tested for as I couldnt tell if the original value was 0 or not.
Nitrate: Lighter color...possibly in the 5-10 range, but I am going to say between 10-15.

Now the question is, can I use some small amount of vodka dosing to keep this more in the range of 5-10 nitrate?

That is my goal...pictures of corals to follow.

As far as the vinegar is concerned, how do you recommend I add it in with my starting vodka?

 

[Aquaph8]

Some people mix them at a ratio of 8 to 1 before they dose. I just alternate my increase dosages. Every time I increase my dosage I would switch. Pre mixing is probably easier though. Good luck, cant wait to see your results.

 

[kingfisherfleshy]

Okay...Ill give the mix a try. Can I keep this mix just in the fridge in a sealed bottle? Seems as if people have shelf life issues, because otherwise people would just hook it up to a doser in large quantities you know?

 

[Aquaph8]

I wouldnt worry about refrigerating it. I thing people dont use dosers for fear of overdosing. A sealed bottle is fine.

 

[kingfisherfleshy]

Alright. Making some booze mix tonight...adding 0.4mL tomorrow...anyone see anything blatantly wrong yet?

It will be broken up into 0.2ml in the AM and 0.2ml in the PM.

 

[kingfisherfleshy]

Well after day one, I have noticed to bad signs. However, the skimmer did go crazy producing skimmate. That at least to me is a sign that some work is being done.

Coral pictures to be posted later, here is a video of my tank for the mean time. Thanks! YouTube - Fleshy's 125g Mixed Reef 3/28/11

 

[patent]

You will need to tinker to find the dose that you want to keep your range where you want it. It will take some time and patience, and only by slowly ramping up and then keep testing can you tell for sure. I love having the Hanna phos tester for this purpose, its easier IMHO, and has a lower resolution.

I don't think you need to dose MB7 but it won't hurt either. Your tank has bacteria that will use it either way.

 

[CJO]

I've seen that title a few times and laugh each time. I hope not all of the vodka is going into the aquarium...

CJ

 

[kingfisherfleshy]

You will need to tinker to find the dose that you want to keep your range where you want it. It will take some time and patience, and only by slowly ramping up and then keep testing can you tell for sure. I love having the Hanna phos tester for this purpose, its easier IMHO, and has a lower resolution.

I don't think you need to dose MB7 but it won't hurt either. Your tank has bacteria that will use it either way.

I will be ordering a hanna in the next couple weeks...my birthday is coming up, so I figure I owe myself a little something.

I am starting with .2ml...not going to ramp up as fast as my guide suggests though, Ill stick there for a week at least. Water testing for now will mainly be looking at nitrates, but the skimmer is really appreciating the vodka supplements. Running an EV400 on this tank, sometimes it runs out of stuff to skim, not anymore though!

I've seen that title a few times and laugh each time. I hope not all of the vodka is going into the aquarium...

CJ

They call this a dual purpose aquarium supplement. :D

 

[Tabasco1]

Thanks for documenting so well! I have a question, I knew that mushrooms put out chemicals that can bother sps, but hadn't heard of toadstools doing this. Is that common? I know a little off topic, but it was mentioned. :)

 

[Pike614]

I tried the Vodka dosing for 6 months on my 450g reef, TWV about 800g....no changes really in Nitrates. I decided to try a Sulfur reactor, and in 3 months my Nirtates went from 40+ to ZERO...that's with about 13 large Tangs, and 50+ fish total!!! I would not bother with the Vodka, was a waste of time for me!!

 

[kingfisherfleshy]

Thanks for documenting so well! I have a question, I knew that mushrooms put out chemicals that can bother sps, but hadn't heard of toadstools doing this. Is that common? I know a little off topic, but it was mentioned. :)

Virtually all soft corals to my knowledge use alleopathic competition. Adding a anemone to an established softie tank will often result in disaster for this reason. They just reach a saturation point in a tank where it is filled with their chemicals.

That being said, I think that some things, my montipora and my strawberry shortcake are starting to show better colors. I will probably just post multiple pictures at once, sort of a before/after deal in a couple weeks if these hallucinations continue. (Sometimes you want something so badly you make it true when it comes to coral growth/color) :D

I tried the Vodka dosing for 6 months on my 450g reef, TWV about 800g....no changes really in Nitrates. I decided to try a Sulfur reactor, and in 3 months my Nirtates went from 40+ to ZERO...that's with about 13 large Tangs, and 50+ fish total!!! I would not bother with the Vodka, was a waste of time for me!!

Hello from the greater stevens point area Pike! I am already seeing some things that I like just a couple days in with vodka dosing: skimmer picking up TONS more skimmate, and what I believe to be improved coral coloration.)

This weekend I will attempt to prove that a difference has been made via h2o testing. Until then, I guess Im just running my mouth. If these color changes I am perceiving continue I will be very happy.

 

[patent]

This weekend I will attempt to prove that a difference has been made via h2o testing. Until then, I guess Im just running my mouth. If these color changes I am perceiving continue I will be very happy.

One thing about dosing, you (usually) have to be patient before you will see actual test differences. I ramped up my dosage until the tests started showing lower and lower phosphates, and then ramped it back down a bit to a holding dose.

Usually your system has an excess it has to work off over time, e.g., phosphates settling into the rocks, etc., that leach back out when you start reducing the amount through bacterial consumption, so while its working, it can take time to show on the tests. Not always, you may see difference, you may not. Just don't give up if you don't see changes in the numbers. Use your corals as the primary endpoint, if they look how you want then something is working.