SUMP & PLUMBING DESIGN.. Need Critique!

[Jtfortune3]

Hey there so I’m setting up a 125 display tank and plan to design the plumbing and have already made the sump. I decided to make a graphic in photoshop of my design and need some help on what I could do better or what could be wrong with this design. Never had a tank with a sump nor this size.. need some recommendations on return pumps and skimmers.
Tank is 125 gallon Aqueon reef ready tank.
THANKS

 

[W1ngz]

Not sure how efficient the refugium will be here. If anything I would feed it from the section you have labeled bio media and have it drain into the return or skimmer section, otherwise you're just partially recycling water that's already been through the whole sump instead of water that comes from the display.

 

[mfinn]

I would not put a skimmer next to return pumps

 

[Jtfortune3]

Not sure how efficient the refugium will be here. If anything I would feed it from the section you have labeled bio media and have it drain into the return or skimmer section, otherwise you're just partially recycling water that's already been through the whole sump instead of water that comes from the display.

Yes ive thought about that but doesn’t a fuge remove phosphates and other compounds that the skimmer wouldn’t so my thought process was to remove all the heavy stuff and let the fuge do the last step.. less cleaning the fuge was my thought on being at the end of the chain.

 

[W1ngz]

Yes ive thought about that but doesn’t a fuge remove phosphates and other compounds that the skimmer wouldn’t so my thought process was to remove all the heavy stuff and let the fuge do the last step.. less cleaning the fuge was my thought on being at the end of the chain.

Right, but you're draining it right back into the filter socks, and since you've already built the sump I'm trying to suggest the best possible configuration without starting over.

Further what @mfinn said above, a great place for a refugium is between the skimmer and return so it acts as a natural bubble trap, but doesn't get too stuffed up with detritus.

I'm not entirely clear why you decided to make the fuge a separate entity, instead of building it into the sump.

 

[Jtfortune3]

Right, but you're draining it right back into the filter socks, and since you've already built the sump I'm trying to suggest the best possible configuration without starting over.

Further what @mfinn said above, a great place for a refugium is between the skimmer and return so it acts as a natural bubble trap, but doesn't get too stuffed up with detritus.

I'm not entirely clear why you decided to make the fuge a separate entity, instead of building it into the sump.

Yeah I had a 29 gallon tank already and decide to turn it into a sump.. limited on space with the 29 gallons I decided I’d use a 15 gallon column tank that I had as well and use it as a external fuge. I could put a 3rd smaller pump in the bio media compartment and pump to fuge if you think that would be an okay idea and let it drain back into the biomedia compartment. It would be more nutrient rich water and less of a recycle.
Thanks for your help!

 

[mfinn]

You need to put the skimmer in a chamber that has a fixed water level. In a chamber with the water level changing ( evaporation/refil) all the time it won't operate correctly.

 

[W1ngz]

That's the sump. Here's the plumbing:

If you're going to use check valves, they should have unions on both sides to remove them and clean them. Some people hate them, but in a dual pump setup they serve the purpose of preventing water from sneaking back through a pump that is turned off or failed.

You'll probably want a gate valve on at least one of the drains so you can set up a full siphon on one drain and emergency on the second. Two open drains is going to sound like a toilet flushing constantly.

if you stay with this setup, you may want to move the refugium valve before the union so you can turn off the water. If you use a true union ball valve, you don't need the union.

Go straight up from the pumps instead of across, up and to a T. It will make it cleaner and save a fitting or two.

You have no way to turn off the water entirely to the reactors if you decide to remove or rearrange that section of plumbing. Replace that union with a true union ball valve.

 

[Jtfortune3]

You need to put the skimmer in a chamber that has a fixed water level. In a chamber with the water level changing ( evaporation/refil) all the time it won't operate correctly.

Can you expand on why my design will create a change in water level? I plan to put an ATO rez that is fed by my RODI system.

 

[W1ngz]

Also, I'm a bit jealous. Don't take the critique as being too critical.
My fav part of building my current system was the plumbing!

 

[Jtfortune3]

Also, I'm a bit jealous. Don't take the critique as being too critical.
My fav part of building my current system was the plumbing!

I’m having really fun with the plunbing design. I have a degree in landscape architecture so we design all sorts of things including irrigation sometimes. I’ll work on some updated diagrams and post them on here
Your help has been very beneficial

 

[mfinn]

Can you expand on why my design will create a change in water level? I plan to put an ATO rez that is fed by my RODI system.

Even the most sensitive ato's will go 1/2"-1" before kicking on, thus allowing that much fluctuation in water level.
Then there is the sudden addition of freshwater, which will drop the skimmers performance.
In most sump designs, the area where the return pump is located are usually most affected by evaporation in the system
You can do it any which way you want.
I was just pointing out things I saw that I wouldn't do.

 

[Erick Armanii]

Hey I can help out probably the best in this scenario as I’m laying in bed feeling quite accomplished that I’m 99% finished PLUMBING MY 125 gal AQUEON TANK!!

 

[Erick Armanii]

It’s a triton 44 sump..

 

[Jtfortune3]

It’s a triton 44 sump..

Nice that looks awesome! I wish my sump was large enough to add add the fuge into the sump but being though I’m using old tanks laying around (29 sump, 15 gallon refuge)I’m trying to find the best way to use them together

 

[Erick Armanii]

Sorry I may have over looked that..
I have a few questions for you;
1.) How is the water getting into the fuge and exiting the fuge?
2.) I noticed you have 2 return pumps, is one for the display and one for a manifold?
3.) Do you have baffles between the skimmer section and return pump?

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

So much to unpack here, where to start?.... I agree that the skimmer is in the wrong place, if you're able to lower the water level in the return section and allow the bubble trap baffle create a permanent water level in the skimmer section you'll be ok. The only concern I have is, will the water level in the return section be high enough that it won't suck air and push it into the display tank.

Another concern is using the return pumps to sub feed all the other stuff in the sump, which means any time you adjust the ball valves (more on that later) you will be changing the amount of water being sent to the display, which will cause all kinds of gurgling from the overflows that are draining back into the sump. I would recommend dedicating one of the 2 return pumps for return, and the other for feeding the reactors and fuge. either that of use the 2 return pumps solely for return and add a dedicated pump for the reactors and fuge.

Ball valves are great for starting and stopping flow, but isn't ideal for regulating flow, although many people use them in that manner, and is fine for broad adjustments, but fine tuning is virtually impossible. I say that, so that you can think on it and consider swapping some ball valves for gate valves.

Lastly is regulating flow through the drain. You're going to want to restrict the flow into the sump so that you can find the sweet spot in order to silence the drain. But the way you have both drains T'ing together becomes a problem because if something gets stuck in the drain line at the gate valve your going to over flow the tank.

Although the weir design on that particular tank will make it hard to stop the gurgling, I would recommend removing the T and allow both drains drop independently. I would recommend reading up on 2 different styles of drain systems, "Herbie" and "Bean Animal" designs. that way you can educate yourself and maybe get some ideas for the best way to tackle that.

A lot to consider, but it's better to address things now and not after you destroy your carpet/hardwood floor etc.

 

[Oropher]

The overflow from your refugium should be directed straight to your return chamber. This way the critters from refugium don't get filtered by socks or skimmed out, so they can be beneficial to MT.

The water level in your skimmer chamber could rise and drop and could affect your skimmer effectiveness; for example if you stop the return pump. Unless you plan on using recirculating skimmer with it's own feed pump.

 

[Jtfortune3]

Sorry I may have over looked that..
I have a few questions for you;
1.) How is the water getting into the fuge and exiting the fuge?
2.) I noticed you have 2 return pumps, is one for the display and one for a manifold?
3.) Do you have baffles between the skimmer section and return pump?

1.) Well I can’t decide if I want to use clean water from return pumps to feed the external refuge. Or use dirty water from over flows to go straight into the fuge. A macro algae fuge would to absorb the phosphates and other things the skimmer didn’t absorb so I’m not sure what to do. Clean or dirty water fuge?

2.) 2 return pumps is simply for if one were to fail the other would still turn over the tank.Pumps always fail while on vacation and your system could crash with 0% turnover.

3.) yes I have a bubble trap between the skimmer and the return.

 

[Erick Armanii]

It’s getting late for me so Ill check back tomorrow lol..
But in the mean time have 2 separate drains, consider having one or both of the drains fall into the refugium area. By drilling the tanks and adding a few bulkheads you can transfer water from the fuge to the rest of your sump. (I’ve seen this done before)

Have one of the two return pumps power your reactors and other equipment via a mainfold. Gate valves fine tune flow, ball valves are great for constant on or constant off. So be sure to update those..