We are all suckers!
- Thread starter 365reefing
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Brucealmighty
Active Member
I have been in the hobby since 2005 and I have had many different lights over the years from T8's to T5's then to led's the cheap Chinese one's and cheap Russian ones too, but now I have also paid 1000 for my 2 Red sea 160s led's and I am happy with every penny spent on them, as I now how a thriving aquarium instead of a surviving aquarium you get what you pay for, it boils down to experience of, if its too good to be true then it usually is a falsehood and will inevitably let you down by short life or worse as said previously fire
zdrc
Active Member
I forgot about chips... If you haven't heard they are kinda like gold today.. wifi modules aren't cheap. Cheap to make - yes, but when you are buying already made ones they cost a little bit.
Wifi modules are VERY cheap. The ESP32 is an excellent module/microcontroller and it's like $5.
Chrisv.
2500 Club Member
Is ecotech going to cover the cost of a house fire?
I could be wrong but I don't think the manufactures previously mentioned are using the ESP32, they each probably have a modified off the shelf chip to some proprietary spec.
Again wifi modules are dirt cheap to make, but I don't see Red Sea, Exotech etc. Making their own, they are probably sourcing from a reputable chip maker that isn't charging bargain basement prices. I don't work for them so who knows, but as stated before that cost is R&D, marketing, QC, and profits.
You're not paying just for the lighting. You're paying for the staffing, the benefits, the research and development, the logistics and the feature set. Are they still expensive? Absolutely, I agree. But it's not just the components. Also, there are plenty of successful reef tanks using cheap LEDS or T5 lights.
Spare time
10K Club member
The engineering of some lights may also be more intense, such as kessil style lights compared to seemingly more simple designs like orphek or reef breeders
Projects with Sam
5000 Club Member
No matter how bad the equipment, if the person operating it is knowledgeable, it will work. It goes the other way too.
a knowledgeable person wouldnt buy equipment that doesn’t address their needs.
a knowledgeable person wouldnt buy equipment that doesn’t address their needs.
Spare time
10K Club member
I do definitely think that some other things are dramatically overpriced, such as skimmers, some powerheads, reactors, and sumps. Again this is just a guess and heavily oversimplified as there are many other costs of a business.
bruno3047
Valuable Member
Not me. I built my own. Ten 3W LEDs $8. Choice of colors/spectrums. A driver to power 20 of them at 80% $12. Knowledge of proper wiring. Free.
Why does the amount of profit a company makes off of your decision to buy a product or service they offer, Have anything to do with if it is a fair price or not?
If Target is selling Cheerios at five bucks a box and you find them at Walmart for four bucks a box, What does the margin have to do with you getting a good deal?? For the record, Walmart will have higher margins at a lower price.
You should be deciding if you are getting a fair deal based on the product or service offered versus the price you're willing to pay based on those two factors.
MaxTremors
2500 Club Member
I just can’t with this take. Everyone is always so pro capitalism and always complaining about jobs being shipped overseas and saying we should be buying ‘made in America’ (I realize that not everyone here is America, but you get my point), but then when a company does manufacture their product in the US (and pays their employees a decent wage with benefits, and honors their warranty, uses quality parts, etc), AND makes a profit (because capitalism), you complain about it.
And with regard to the quality and profit margins of various LED lights, there’s just a lot wrong with the OP’s assertions. First, they are not the same LEDs, not the same drivers, not the same cooling mechanisms (fans/heat sinks), not the same lenses, and not the same build quality. 1 or 0.25 watt LEDs cost much less than 3 or 5 watt LEDs. LEDs from Cree or Osram (or some of the other high quality manufacturers) cost more, but are of much higher quality, spectrum, and intensity than generic off brand LEDs, generic LEDs are not even remotely comparable. There are plenty of quality, budget friendly lights out there, but when it comes to a lot of the cheap Ali express/Amazon, knock-off, black box lights, they are not of the same quality. Many of them will grow corals, but the quality, safety, longevity, aesthetics, and the coloration and growth you’ll get out of your corals might not be comparable to that of higher quality lights. And this is to say nothing of the working conditions of the people who make cheap electronics or the environmental hazards from the production of cheap electronics.
I want to be very clear that I am not against buying cheaper lights or cheaper electronics, if that’s the budget you have or if you’re comfortable with the trade-offs of lower quality lights, by all means… But pretending that there is no difference between higher and lower end LEDs is just that, pretending.
And with regard to the quality and profit margins of various LED lights, there’s just a lot wrong with the OP’s assertions. First, they are not the same LEDs, not the same drivers, not the same cooling mechanisms (fans/heat sinks), not the same lenses, and not the same build quality. 1 or 0.25 watt LEDs cost much less than 3 or 5 watt LEDs. LEDs from Cree or Osram (or some of the other high quality manufacturers) cost more, but are of much higher quality, spectrum, and intensity than generic off brand LEDs, generic LEDs are not even remotely comparable. There are plenty of quality, budget friendly lights out there, but when it comes to a lot of the cheap Ali express/Amazon, knock-off, black box lights, they are not of the same quality. Many of them will grow corals, but the quality, safety, longevity, aesthetics, and the coloration and growth you’ll get out of your corals might not be comparable to that of higher quality lights. And this is to say nothing of the working conditions of the people who make cheap electronics or the environmental hazards from the production of cheap electronics.
I want to be very clear that I am not against buying cheaper lights or cheaper electronics, if that’s the budget you have or if you’re comfortable with the trade-offs of lower quality lights, by all means… But pretending that there is no difference between higher and lower end LEDs is just that, pretending.
Life above a saltwater tank means aluminum isn’t going to make the fixture cheap regardless. But I agree with the OP, that’s why I’m sticking my toe in with these Nicrews…only time will tell wont it?
When you buy name brand lights, or other equipment, you are also paying for losses from Chinese Patent Theft from look-alike products (not talking about good companies that manufacture in China). Good US or EU company takes the time to make a nice light or pump, then Chinese IP stealing company copies it and sells it at a fraction of the cost on Amazon or eBay without any presence in the US or EU for anybody to file an IP infringement suit again. Reefers say that they don't care as long as they get cheap lights and pumps. If the company that did the R&D and had all of the skin in the game sold more units, then things could be cheaper and you would likely have shorter cycles with better products.
bruno3047
Valuable Member
It’s really not that hard. Anyone who needs help wiring their own LED system, just ask right here. Or PM me if you don’t want to do it on this thread.
JimmyV
Active Member
There it is , people will pay "Suckers"
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