.85ppm Phosphate, should I worry?

[wenliu51]

I recommend using Phosphat-E Phosphate remover and dosing at half the recommended dose 2-3 times within a week span. It will allow slow lowering but nothing too abrupt. I recently went through this. I was at 0.3 and I brought it down to 0.5, there will be a slow creep but its at a healthy number.

Here is Larry's phosphate remover calculator for many different products:

http://larryl.emailplus.org/fish/dosing-instructions-phosphate-removers.html

 

[arking_mark]

I should say, I'm not a big believer of skimmers as an effective part of filtration. I guess my main export is water changes and chemipure blue.

So I just changed out my chemipure blue this past Sunday. This should reduce Phosphates and reduce organics. So these numbers I'm seeing are after a new media was added.

I'm beginning to suspect that the Hanna Tester is a bad egg.

No algae, barely need to clean the glass
Low skimmer output
Happy sensitive corals
Some issues with some newer mushroom and zoas

This all points to low nutrients and not high nutrients.

My only indication of high nutrients is a Phosphate Hanna checker...

 

[arking_mark]

So I just changed out my chemipure blue this past Sunday. This should reduce Phosphates and reduce organics. So these numbers I'm seeing are after a new media was added.

I'm beginning to suspect that the Hanna Tester is a bad egg.

No algae, barely need to clean the glass
Low skimmer output
Happy sensitive corals
Some issues with some newer mushroom and zoas

This all points to low nutrients and not high nutrients.

My only indication of high nutrients is a Phosphate Hanna checker...

I guess my only indication that the Hanna is working is that the fresh saltwater has .06ppm Phosphate which is lower then the tank, but not consistent with what Neomarine states (zero). So maybe it's a bad Hanna checker.

 

[arking_mark]

I'm curious on what your nitrates are at. Sometimes if they bottom out phosphates dont get used as they are both "building blocks" to alot of things that grow. My phosphates tend to creep up on me all the time and I end up using phosphate rx to bring them down. Ive had my phosphates that high a couple of times and things were ok but not growing or super happy.

I remembered I have a Red Sea marine test kit that has a Nitrate test. I always find it hard to read. My Nitrates appear to be at ~15ppm.

 

[arking_mark]

Tested my RODI for Phosphate. Zero...so not a source.

 

[arking_mark]

That presumes a source is the "problem", rather than all of those are just right and you do not have sufficient export.

@Randy Holmes-Farley Would you expect chemipure blue (11oz) for a 34 gal tank be a good export? I've religiously changed out 5.5oz every 6 weeks or so. I was planning on using chemipure blue in my 525xl tank as well.

I'm guessing this export is insufficient...or could the AWC and change of salt unlocked something?

 

[xxkenny90xx]

As others have mentioned if your corals are happy and you don't have an algae problem then you don't have a problem. A whole back one of the mods on here posted his beautiful tank full of big corals with similar #s to yours. People worry about these numbers too much.

That being said I'd get a second opinion on the test. Maybe the lfs can test your water? If you do decide to take action do it slowly and preferably while your in town...

 

[arking_mark]

As others have mentioned if your corals are happy and you don't have an algae problem then you don't have a problem. A whole back one of the mods on here posted his beautiful tank full of big corals with similar #s to yours. People worry about these numbers too much.

That being said I'd get a second opinion on the test. Maybe the lfs can test your water? If you do decide to take action do it slowly and preferably while your in town...

I'm mostly just perplexed by these numbers.

 

[KrisReef]

I'm mostly just perplexed by these numbers.

Me too.
I have had crazy high phosphorus in a live rock curing tank and the blue color was very deep and changed instantly. I had to dilute the sample to get a reading and It was not a light blue that you are reporting.
I am leaning towards your Hanna Checker needs to go back to the factory for calibration, repair, or replacement? It is a man-made item that does seem to indicate a problem that your tank and livestock don't validate at all.

The other source of error might be bad reagent-dust. Hanna makes a calibration set that could help settle the meter v. reagent theory. I could mail you some of my current reagent envelopes as this batch has been accurate for me. Send a pm with a mail to address if you want?

 

[arking_mark]

Me too.
I have had crazy high phosphorus in a live rock curing tank and the blue color was very deep and changed instantly. I had to dilute the sample to get a reading and It was not a light blue that you are reporting.
I am leaning towards your Hanna Checker needs to go back to the factory for calibration, repair, or replacement? It is a man-made item that does seem to indicate a problem that your tank and livestock don't validate at all.

The other source of error might be bad reagent-dust. Hanna makes a calibration set that could help settle the meter v. reagent theory. I could mail you some of my current reagent envelopes as this batch has been accurate for me. Send a pm with a mail to address if you want?

Thats very kind of you, but I wouldn't want to put you out. I sent water out to ICP testing to validate measurements.

 

[arking_mark]

So I early replaced my 2nd 5.5oz Chemipure Blue last night. So now I have 11oz of fresh Chemipure Blue on the tank.

Phosphate has dropped from .85 to .81.

Nitrates seem to be still at ~15pp.

I'll continue to monitor.

 

[92Miata]

Me too.
I have had crazy high phosphorus in a live rock curing tank and the blue color was very deep and changed instantly. I had to dilute the sample to get a reading and It was not a light blue that you are reporting.
I am leaning towards your Hanna Checker needs to go back to the factory for calibration, repair, or replacement? It is a man-made item that does seem to indicate a problem that your tank and livestock don't validate at all.

The other source of error might be bad reagent-dust. Hanna makes a calibration set that could help settle the meter v. reagent theory. I could mail you some of my current reagent envelopes as this batch has been accurate for me. Send a pm with a mail to address if you want?

My meter is accurate to Hanna's standards - and it definitely isn't "dark blue" at the levels hes talking about. Its definitely blue (one tank runs about .8 - I'd call light blue, the other .04 = visibly clear), but not dark.

 

[arking_mark]

My meter is accurate to Hanna's standards - and it definitely isn't "dark blue" at the levels hes talking about. Its definitely blue (one tank runs about .8 - I'd call light blue, the other .04 = visibly clear), but not dark.

My .81 is a light blue. Just curious if you're having any issues with your .8 tank?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley Would you expect chemipure blue (11oz) for a 34 gal tank be a good export? I've religiously changed out 5.5oz every 6 weeks or so. I was planning on using chemipure blue in my 525xl tank as well.

I'm guessing this export is insufficient...or could the AWC and change of salt unlocked something?

IMO, Chemipure blue will remove organics and not much else from seawater. They confuse their claims by discussing both seawater and freshwater together, but no polymer resin will bind much phosphate from seawater (fwiw, phosphate binding with polymers is my real world professional expertise)

 

[92Miata]

My .81 is a light blue. Just curious if you're having any issues with your .8 tank?

Besides the 2 very large BTAs occasionally moving around and destroying things, not really. Its my wife's tank - and she has to be real careful about where she puts any SPS - but that's more of a flow/lighting issue than anything else. She says my tanks (and my philosophy of "if the fish aren't struggling to swim, you don't have enough flow?") are "not relaxing". The lack of flow is largely driving the phosphate issue, IMO.

 

[excell007]

Pulling down phosphate on old tanks can take a while, unless the increase in phosphate is a sudden occurence. Because the rocks and sand already have a lot of phosphate absorved and will release it back to the water when the po4 in the water is lower. The calculator assumes that all the phosphate is in the water so don't be surprise if the phosphate will not go down as much as the labels claimed. If all your inhabitants are happy don't worry to much and just pull it down slowly.

 

[arking_mark]

IMO, Chemipure blue will remove organics and not much else from seawater. They confuse their claims by discussing both seawater and freshwater together, but no polymer resin will bind much phosphate from seawater (fwiw, phosphate binding with polymers is my real world professional expertise)

Very enlightening. I'll need to rethink export for my new tank.

It has a rollermat for mechanical

It has a large refugium (calerpa prolifera) which should export nitrate and phosphate while helping ph.

I'm still leaning towards the Chemipure for organics then...maybe something else?

 

[arking_mark]

Pulling down phosphate on old tanks can take a while, unless the increase in phosphate is a sudden occurence. Because the rocks and sand already have a lot of phosphate absorved and will release it back to the water when the po4 in the water is lower. The calculator assumes that all the phosphate is in the water so don't be surprise if the phosphate will not go down as much as the labels claimed. If all your inhabitants are happy don't worry to much and just pull it down slowly.

I guess I'm entering "old tank syndrome". Since everything is happy and will be transitioning to the new tank over the next couple of months, I'm not too worried.

I'll be curious to see what will happen when I start to move some of these corals that have been in what is essentially a high-nutrient tank to a new tank that won't have anything close to these levels.

 

[KrisReef]

Will you be moving old rocks or starting new? I would expect the old rocks will carry the high levels into your new tank. Same thing if you move live sand. These substrates become saturated and will release back to the water for a long while.

 

[arking_mark]

Will you be moving old rocks or starting new? I would expect the old rocks will carry the high levels into your new tank. Same thing if you move live sand. These substrates become saturated and will release back to the water for a long while.

My moving old rock and sand plan didn't survive 1st contact.

At some point I decided 2 things:
1. I wanted to take my time for the aquascaping and not just go with stacking rocks.
2. I was not confident in a wholesale move from a 34 to 108 gal tank wouldn't have casualties.

So I decided to just go fresh and new and transition things slowly.

The new tank is cycled and refugium is up and running. I'll start transitioning after the new year.