Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

[CDavmd]

Update: Well I continued siphoning out most of my sand in frustration. I also massively increased my flow by running my MP10's at 100% for a couple hours a day. This moves the remaining sand around and piles it up in one area where I can easily siphon. At this point about 80% of my sand is gone and I have bare bottom in several areas. Its also keeping the rocks clean. I continue to feed heavily and my Nitrates are running in the 20's and Phosphate is around .2

I also took my 14 gallon quarantine tank's little UV sterilizer and put it in my sump. Not sure it really does anything since it is so underpowered but I figured if theres not sand and these buggers are forced into the water column then maybe it will get some of them.

Corals are healthy but my Monti's have browned out. I started getting pretty heavy turf algae growing on the back glass and some areas of the rocks so I added a small Tomini Tang and he is cleaning things up pretty nicely.

The positive news is I am not seeing any hints of Dino's on the remaining sand. In the past, as the sand bed shrank, I would see them start showing up slowly wherever there remained some sand. Its been 10 days now and no sign of them late in the day as was the norm these last many months.

I'm going to leave the remaining think layer of sand in the tank as a monitor for resurgence of dino's. I'm also going to try and get my nutrients down a little over the next few weeks.

Will likely just leave the tank as is while I finish my 425xl build and finish cycling, then move the rocks and corals over and shut down this old tank for good.

 

[piehunter]

Any issue running some cheato on top of the worse bits in the display while dosing silicates ?

The side of the tank I had it in has more green hair algae instead of brown and that’s it being beside it

Turned my uv off as I think it was killing diatoms aswell

 

[dwest]

Any issue running some cheato on top of the worse bits in the display while dosing silicates ?

The side of the tank I had it in has more green hair algae instead of brown and that’s it being beside it

Turned my uv off as I think it was killing diatoms aswell

Any changes after the UV has been shut off?

 

[dwest]

I posted this in the other dino forum but since I had amphidinum this makes a good home too.

Here is my story with amphidinum. Keep up the good fight and keep sharing. What yall shared with me in these forums is how I won the battle.

http://atransgenicworld.blogspot.com/2018/05/dinoflagellates-in-reef-tank-what-why.html?m=1

Waterbourn I really enjoyed your write-up. My situation was similar to yours except all my sps died, I removed most of my sand, did not add garf grunge, and did not add silica (yet). Have just added a green slimer back to see if sps can live or not...I still see dinos but much fewer plus my cuc is handling the algae growth.

You mentioned you were going to have your water tested. Any results?

 

[piehunter]

Any changes after the UV has been shut off?

Dino and Diatoms have been growing freely although some surfaces are dominant with diatoms so the turn could be coming

 

[piehunter]

Should i try to remove dinos or just let them battle it out ?

 

[dwest]

Should i try to remove dinos or just let them battle it out ?

That’s an interesting question... it would be interesting to see who wins. However, if it were my tank, I would remove dinos because they toasted my sps...good luck.

 

[taricha]

Should i try to remove dinos or just let them battle it out ?

I'd siphon dinos. Diatoms may outcompete them under the right conditions, but no reason to fight fair.

 

[piehunter]

I'd siphon dinos. Diatoms may outcompete them under the right conditions, but no reason to fight fair.

I have removed all dinos via syphoning in sight and have been blowing rocks with a turkey baster getting them in trough the UV ... they haven't really returned and that was 24 hour period since removal and i have also run out of silicates to dose .. i have some bubbles on a few surfaces which is think is diatoms will verify with a scope .. do i wait now and see if the diatoms will starve the Dinos out or sort trace elements again and hope for another bloom

 

[CDavmd]

Another Update: Still no sign of Dino's. Granted there are only a few small patches of sand left but in the past I could see them growing on these small patches and now no longer. I will not claim to have beaten them yet but I'm optimistic. Green algae is growing but not out of control and the new Tang really keeps things mowed down. Only a few spots where it is growing on corals and not bad.

Interestingly, I have not changed the feeding habits with the tank. I am not dosing phosphate or Nitrate (they have maintained nicely by simply feeding and removing phosphate media and stopping the NOPOX several months ago) yet on my most recent testing the phosphates have taken a real jump. Nitrates still hover between 20-30 but Phophate that had been consistently between 0.1-0.2 has now jumped to 0.35! I'm seeing my Goni's closing up and I'm a little concerned its getting too high. Considering adding Dr. Tim's waste away again or just putting in some phosguard in my skimmer overflow box. I think I should try to get them down a bit to the 0.1 range.

Also wondering when I might pull the trigger and add a little sand back to the tank. The new build is going slow and it will be a while before I move things over, I really do not like the look of bare bottom.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks!

Also thought I would share this data- My tank ran for several years first with Vodka and then with NOPOX fairly low nutrient levels. I left town for 10 days in late september and asked my wife to dose the NOPOX. She ended up doubling the dose by mistake. When I got home, I had several bleached SPS and my nutrients were zero. Shortly after I began seeing what I thought were Diatoms and later realized they were Dino's. You can see in the graph the bottoming out of nutrients and the moment Dino's first appeared.

 

[taricha]

. i have some bubbles on a few surfaces which is think is diatoms will verify with a scope .. do i wait now and see if the diatoms will starve the Dinos out or sort trace elements again and hope for another bloom

once you have diatoms going n no need to input trace elements. Do add more silica. Keep silica up and available, every diatom cell you can grow is preventing a dino cell. (Not literally, but they are competing for same resources)

 

[dwest]

once you have diatoms going n no need to input trace elements. Do add more silica. Keep silica up and available, every diatom cell you can grow is preventing a dino cell. (Not literally, but they are competing for same resources)

My amphidium seems likely its on its way out! Haven’t seen any in my last 3 samples! I never dosed silicates but still keeping n and p elevated. Once I feel comfortable I will move my uv from in tank to return line. Then I’ll likely stop dosing nutrients and hold my breath. Hoping for the end game...

 

[taricha]

My amphidium seems likely its on its way out! Haven’t seen any in my last 3 samples! I never dosed silicates but still keeping n and p elevated. Once I feel comfortable I will move my uv from in tank to return line. Then I’ll likely stop dosing nutrients and hold my breath. Hoping for the end game...

Awesome news on your samples. To me, end is when you have benthic photosynthetic stuff growing on surfaces, and tiny pods and inverts supported by that growth. At that point, the niches are filled and dino blooms are excluded.

Nitrates still hover between 20-30 but Phosphate that had been consistently between 0.1-0.2 has now jumped to 0.35! I'm seeing my Goni's closing up and I'm a little concerned its getting too high. Considering adding Dr. Tim's waste away again or just putting in some phosguard in my skimmer overflow box. I think I should try to get them down a bit to the 0.1 range.

Also wondering when I might pull the trigger and add a little sand back to the tank. The new build is going slow and it will be a while before I move things over, I really do not like the look of bare bottom.

Also thought I would share this data-

I never liked barebottom either - favorite livestock were sand dwellers, so I always kept my sand.
problem with new sand is that it's a great place to get colonized and first thing that can reproduce fast (hint: dinos) will love it there. So, I'd start with adding sand in the algae fuge / sump, where it can be better controlled for dinos. Then after it gets colonized by good stuff down there - move it into display.
Previously, your PO4 was kept in check by phos binding media, and now and going forward for some months it won't be (GFO use is probably the strongest single correlation to dinos).
So what can you do?
1) bring online an algae scrubber, stronger fuge lighting etc.
2) analyze fish foods, and perhaps replace excessively high P food with a lower one.
3) adding sand will probably help some as well - initially as fresh surfaces to bind phosphate - then later as perhaps a site for increased activity by phos consuming organisms.
4) time - a lot of things in the system will scale up to increased phos availability over time.

Thank you for this data. excellent

 

[dwest]

Awesome news on your samples. To me, end is when you have benthic photosynthetic stuff growing on surfaces, and tiny pods and inverts supported by that growth. At that point, the niches are filled and dino blooms are excluded.


I never liked barebottom either - favorite livestock were sand dwellers, so I always kept my sand.
problem with new sand is that it's a great place to get colonized and first thing that can reproduce fast (hint: dinos) will love it there. So, I'd start with adding sand in the algae fuge / sump, where it can be better controlled for dinos. Then after it gets colonized by good stuff down there - move it into display.
Previously, your PO4 was kept in check by phos binding media, and now and going forward for some months it won't be (GFO use is probably the strongest single correlation to dinos).
So what can you do?
1) bring online an algae scrubber, stronger fuge lighting etc.
2) analyze fish foods, and perhaps replace excessively high P food with a lower one.
3) adding sand will probably help some as well - initially as fresh surfaces to bind phosphate - then later as perhaps a site for increased activity by phos consuming organisms.
4) time - a lot of things in the system will scale up to increased phos availability over time.

Thank you for this data. excellent

Never thought about making my own live sand. I will do that. I didn’t want to remove my sand either, but removing 90+ % of the sand was likely when my major turning point occurred.

 

[taricha]

Never thought about making my own live sand. I will do that.

no reason to fight fair

 

[CDavmd]

Awesome news on your samples. To me, end is when you have benthic photosynthetic stuff growing on surfaces, and tiny pods and inverts supported by that growth. At that point, the niches are filled and dino blooms are excluded.


I never liked barebottom either - favorite livestock were sand dwellers, so I always kept my sand.
problem with new sand is that it's a great place to get colonized and first thing that can reproduce fast (hint: dinos) will love it there. So, I'd start with adding sand in the algae fuge / sump, where it can be better controlled for dinos. Then after it gets colonized by good stuff down there - move it into display.
Previously, your PO4 was kept in check by phos binding media, and now and going forward for some months it won't be (GFO use is probably the strongest single correlation to dinos).
So what can you do?
1) bring online an algae scrubber, stronger fuge lighting etc.
2) analyze fish foods, and perhaps replace excessively high P food with a lower one.
3) adding sand will probably help some as well - initially as fresh surfaces to bind phosphate - then later as perhaps a site for increased activity by phos consuming organisms.
4) time - a lot of things in the system will scale up to increased phos availability over time.

Thank you for this data. excellent

Thank you! That’s really helpful. Will slap my hand that was reaching for the GFO! Lol

What about bacteria like Dr. Tim’s. I’ve used it in the past. It always brought nutrients down some.

Need to Check the food. I have a suspicion that one of them is very high in phos

 

[JAMSOURY]

I’ve been dosing silica about 30 drops on my 180g tank. Still no sign of diatoms. I did a couple water changes to hopefully replace trace elements that may be need but I still can’t seem to get diatoms. Any idea?

 

[CDavmd]

Decided to suck up a few grains of sand and water. Took a peek under the microscope. Saw a few diatoms and pods. Only one maybe two Dino’s seen. Still no visible sign of them in the tank and remaining sand.

Starting to think I’ve reestablished biodiversity and put Dino’s back in their proper place!

I did see this curious planktonic species while looking around.

 

[taricha]

Starting to think I’ve reestablished biodiversity and put Dino’s back in their proper place!

I did see this curious planktonic species while looking around.

Halacaridae! I think i remember reading they are kind of a marine loner. Close to spiders and ticks, but none of its close relatives are marine. Really distantly related to any other marine family.

 

[CDavmd]

Cool! I was not familiar with that one. It did exactly remind me of a spider the way it crawled around. Amazing details and bodily structures for something so tiny it lives on a grain of sand! Just think its totally oblivious to the problems in our world....living in its own tiny universe. Puts things in perspective lol!!