Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

OpenOcean33 · Mar 18, 2019

Is this diatom growth or something else? @taricha

aras · Mar 19, 2019

Was away for a few days and here is what I came back to... Certainly, some new life going on, none of it pretty... If somebody could id some of these that would be great. I only had large cell amphidinium as of about a week ago. Stopped NOPOX, current nitrate level 8, phosphate 0.1. Also stopped water changes and microelement dosing.

Sand

Rocks

This is stuff from the sand under a microscope (250x). This used to be only large cell amphidinium recently.

This is snotty stuff that appeared on some rocks (1000x). They are much smaller than my normal amphidinium and don't seem to move much.

This is the purple stuff (250x), I assume cyano.

dwest · Mar 19, 2019

aras said:
Was away for a few days and here is what I came back to... Certainly, some new life going on, none of it pretty... If somebody could id some of these that would be great. I only had large cell amphidinium as of about a week ago. Stopped NOPOX, current nitrate level 8, phosphate 0.1. Also stopped water changes and microelement dosing.

Sand

Rocks

This is stuff from the sand under a microscope (250x). This used to be only large cell amphidinium recently.

This is snotty stuff that appeared on some rocks (1000x). They are much smaller than my normal amphidinium and don't seem to move much.

This is the purple stuff (250x), I assume cyano.

I only see a few dinos and lots of other stuff. That’s good.

taricha · Mar 19, 2019

OpenOcean33 said:
Is this diatom growth or something else?

Those are diatoms. squirmier than the ones I normally see, but yes diatoms move much faster than we expect.

aras said:
Was away for a few days and here is what I came back to... Certainly, some new life going on, none of it pretty... If somebody could id some of these that would be great. I only had large cell amphidinium as of about a week ago. Stopped NOPOX, current nitrate level 8, phosphate 0.1. Also stopped water changes and microelement dosing.

This is snotty stuff that appeared on some rocks (1000x). They are much smaller than my normal amphidinium and don't seem to move much.

Chrysophytes!

This is the purple stuff (250x), I assume cyano.

yes. cyano.

OpenOcean33 · Mar 19, 2019

taricha said:
Those are diatoms. squirmier than the ones I normally see, but yes diatoms move much faster than we expect.

Chrysophytes!

yes. cyano.

Thanks man ! I'll give an update in about a week I've been writing down all my steps of treatment and adjustments made

Shallow Planet · Mar 25, 2019

So I would like to report back after about 3 months I think I am finally dino free! I had a bad case of amphidinium and [URL='https://www.reef2reef.com/search/3404245/?searchform=1&q=ostreopsis&t=post&o=relevance&c%5Buser%5D%5B0%5D=55449&c%5Buser%5D%5B1%5D=69455&c%5Bthread%5D=293318']ostreopsis that I confirmed under a microscope. I think identification is important to eliminate the guess work out of what you are doing.[/URL]

First, what did not work. DinoX. I believe this product might reduce their numbers or keep them in check, but I mostly believe this product to be a waste of time and money.

UV Sterilizer. I have mixed opinions on what this did or did not do. I cant prove much since I was doing other things at the same time. What I can say is that if I turned it off and forgot to turn it back on for more than 12 hours it seemed like the dinos flared up. When left running it seemed to almost maintain the current population and prevent as much spreading. All of this is just a guess tho.

What I believe worked and would recommend. BIOIDIVERSITY!!!
I think the biggest problem is our tanks start out too clean now days. I used dry rock and dry sand and let my nitrates and phosphates completely bottom out. I saw very little results until I maintained Nitrates at 5-10ppm(got as high as 25ppm) and phosphates at 0.2 ppm. Dosing Microbacteria7 and Silicates. Added a bunch of pods and dosed live phyto. Now it was not an overnight fix and I think too many give up because it doesn't fix the issue right away. I dosed both microbacteria7 and silicates for maybe 2 months until I got to the point I am at today.

I was constantly checking microscope samples and after a couple of weeks of dosing silicates I started noticing diatoms popping up. What I noticed was as their numbers grew the number of dinos started to go down. At one point it was almost all diatoms and a few dinos. Now its no dinos and the diatoms are starting to disappear as I have started cutting back on silicates.

Anyway I now have clean rock, clean glass, and bright white sand again. It is possible! Conquer this the natural way. It was frustrating along the way. I lost some inverts and coral, but I learned a lot. Hopefully my experience can help others get back control of their tanks.

If you have any questions just let me know.

OpenOcean33 · Mar 26, 2019

Shallow Planet said:
So I would like to report back after about 3 months I think I am finally dino free! I had a bad case of amphidinium and [URL='https://www.reef2reef.com/search/3404245/?searchform=1&q=ostreopsis&t=post&o=relevance&c%5Buser%5D%5B0%5D=55449&c%5Buser%5D%5B1%5D=69455&c%5Bthread%5D=293318']ostreopsis that I confirmed under a microscope. I think identification is important to eliminate the guess work out of what you are doing.[/URL]

First, what did not work. DinoX. I believe this product might reduce their numbers or keep them in check, but I mostly believe this product to be a waste of time and money.

UV Sterilizer. I have mixed opinions on what this did or did not do. I cant prove much since I was doing other things at the same time. What I can say is that if I turned it off and forgot to turn it back on for more than 12 hours it seemed like the dinos flared up. When left running it seemed to almost maintain the current population and prevent as much spreading. All of this is just a guess tho.

What I believe worked and would recommend. BIOIDIVERSITY!!!
I think the biggest problem is our tanks start out too clean now days. I used dry rock and dry sand and let my nitrates and phosphates completely bottom out. I saw very little results until I maintained Nitrates at 5-10ppm(got as high as 25ppm) and phosphates at 0.2 ppm. Dosing Microbacteria7 and Silicates. Added a bunch of pods and dosed live phyto. Now it was not an overnight fix and I think too many give up because it doesn't fix the issue right away. I dosed both microbacteria7 and silicates for maybe 2 months until I got to the point I am at today.

I was constantly checking microscope samples and after a couple of weeks of dosing silicates I started noticing diatoms popping up. What I noticed was as their numbers grew the number of dinos started to go down. At one point it was almost all diatoms and a few dinos. Now its no dinos and the diatoms are starting to disappear as I have started cutting back on silicates.

Anyway I now have clean rock, clean glass, and bright white sand again. It is possible! Conquer this the natural way. It was frustrating along the way. I lost some inverts and coral, but I learned a lot. Hopefully my experience can help others get back control of their tanks.

If you have any questions just let me know.

Did you dose untill you had a diatom bloom then stop or just dose untill you saw no more dinos

Shallow Planet · Mar 26, 2019

OpenOcean33 said:
Did you dose untill you had a diatom bloom then stop or just dose untill you saw no more dinos

Good question. I actually purchased a hanna silicate monitor. I kept dosing the entire time and was aiming to maintain 2ppm of silicates. However i only tested a couple of times and sort of figured out what the dose was to maintain.

OpenOcean33 · Mar 26, 2019

Shallow Planet said:
Good question. I actually purchased a hanna silicate monitor. I kept dosing the entire time and was aiming to maintain 2ppm of silicates. However i only tested a couple of times and sort of figured out what the dose was to maintain.

Ah this makes sense thank you

David_Cool · Mar 26, 2019

Shallow Planet, what did you use for dosing for silicates, and did you keep lighting up to increase competitive algae growth? I care for a saltwater tank at a college and we have small cell amphidinium. Unfortunately the budget they give me is pretty small so I can't just start buying things without a solid course of action and a good chance of positive results.

dwest · Mar 26, 2019

David_Cool said:
Shallow Planet, what did you use for dosing for silicates, and did you keep lighting up to increase competitive algae growth? I care for a saltwater tank at a college and we have small cell amphidinium. Unfortunately the budget they give me is pretty small so I can't just start buying things without a solid course of action and a good chance of positive results.

Most of us used brightwells sponge excel. If you have a really large system, there are likely better options. Sorry, I’m not Shallow Planet, but welcome to R2R!

David_Cool · Mar 26, 2019

dwest said:
Most of us used brightwells sponge excel. If you have a really large system, there are likely better options. Sorry, I’m not Shallow Planet, but welcome to R2R!

Thanks! I went down the rabbit hole quite a ways and found an article that talked about it being safe to dose 1ppm every 1-2 weeks using a sodium silicate solution. We only have a 50 gallon tank and have sodium silicate on hand. Doing the math, I figured out how much I would need for a dose of .3ppm just to be on the safe side and to see if the existing diatoms react well to it. Luckily I have the Navicula diatoms that are mentioned in another part of this thread that exhibit allelopathic inhibition of dinos.

dwest · Mar 26, 2019

David_Cool said:
Thanks! I went down the rabbit hole quite a ways and found an article that talked about it being safe to dose 1ppm every 1-2 weeks using a sodium silicate solution. We only have a 50 gallon tank and have sodium silicate on hand. Doing the math, I figured out how much I would need for a dose of .3ppm just to be on the safe side and to see if the existing diatoms react well to it. Luckily I have the Navicula diatoms that are mentioned in another part of this thread that exhibit allelopathic inhibition of dinos.

Sounds like you have what you need. They will likely consume lots of silicates, so lots of redosing will likely be required. I don’t know if you need a Si tester or not, but the Hanna gets good reviews.

OpenOcean33 · Mar 26, 2019

David_Cool said:
Shallow Planet, what did you use for dosing for silicates, and did you keep lighting up to increase competitive algae growth? I care for a saltwater tank at a college and we have small cell amphidinium. Unfortunately the budget they give me is pretty small so I can't just start buying things without a solid course of action and a good chance of positive results.

Sponge excell is what most of us start with, and hannah checker. Sailfert test are no good. I have a crazy diatom bloom happening g right now.. also dont have a test kit

David_Cool · Mar 26, 2019

OpenOcean33 said:
Sponge excell is what most of us start with, and hannah checker. Sailfert test are no good. I have a crazy diatom bloom happening g right now.. also dont have a test kit

Do you have any issues with dinos? If so, what effect is the bloom having on them?

OpenOcean33 · Mar 26, 2019

David_Cool said:
Do you have any issues with dinos? If so, what effect is the bloom having on them?

I have little to no Dinos left in my sand bed, only diatoms. Diatoms totally outcompeted them, just letting it ride its course and will see if they return.

David_Cool · Mar 26, 2019

OpenOcean33 said:
I have little to no Dinos left in my sand bed, only diatoms. Diatoms totally outcompeted them, just letting it ride its course and will see if they return.

That is very reassuring! Thanks

OpenOcean33 · Mar 27, 2019

So an update: I let my sanded enjoy the diatoms for a week. Tonight after lights out for a few hours I noticed it was becoming a bit stringing and the Dinos are starting to return, so I started back my silicate dosing to hopefully keep them at bay, however, from what I can see they are ostreopsis now and not small cell amphiduym. So maybe I have won the battle, but not the war.

David_Cool · Mar 27, 2019

OpenOcean33 said:
So an update: I let my sanded enjoy the diatoms for a week. Tonight after lights out for a few hours I noticed it was becoming a bit stringing and the Dinos are starting to return, so I started back my silicate dosing to hopefully keep them at bay, however, from what I can see they are ostreopsis now and not small cell amphiduym. So maybe I have won the battle, but not the war.

Well crap! Isn't ostreopsis worse and more toxic?