Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

[taricha]

Earlier post when you mentioned disturbing a lot of the sand will release good stuff and will see the dinos make a larrge reappearance? Is it best NOT to disturb the sand?

No. I would put sand vacuuming in the category of things that are on the whole good, but may briefly make things look a little worse before they get better.
It's just better to expect that beforehand, than be surprised.

 

[bdare]

Hello all,

I have confirmed I'm battling large cell Amphidinium. I've been trying to fight them for awhile with not a ton of success. I've read through most of this thread and I'm trying to come up with a game plan. From what I can tell everyone agrees that maintaining Silicate, nitrate and phosphate are essential. Aside from that here is what I'd like to know:

1) Microbacter dosing? In other threads I've seen people say this can help fuel dino growth. What's the consensus here?
2) GFO - I've seen serveral people comment that they are replacing it weekly. Is it generally agreed upon that GAC is part of the game plan?
3) Limit nutrients like iron and iodine which fuel dinos. Again.. I've seem some say they continue adding these things while other threads / articles advise against it.
4) Stir the sand or don't stir the sand?

My nitrates are currently at 15. Phosphate is .14. I have a UV sterilizer running which I understand won't be much help with Amph as they stay in the sand. I just finished a 48 hour complete black out and heavy Dino X dosing. Although the sand and rocks look great I can already see them coming back. I scooped some of the sand and checked under a microscope... they're definitely still there.

My plan going forward (unless someone advises otherwise) is to not dose anything other than Sponge Excel. I'm currently adding 26 drops per day in my tank which is about 250 total gallons. Running my skimmer wet. Replacing filter socks about once every 5 days. No GFO or GAC. I don't currently have any cheato. It all died. I'm guessing from DinoX doses.

Anything else?

Thanks in advance.

Ben

 

[taricha]

1) Microbacter dosing? In other threads I've seen people say this can help fuel dino growth. What's the consensus here?
2) GFO - I've seen serveral people comment that they are replacing it weekly. Is it generally agreed upon that GAC is part of the game plan?
3) Limit nutrients like iron and iodine which fuel dinos. Again.. I've seem some say they continue adding these things while other threads / articles advise against it.
4) Stir the sand or don't stir the sand?

MB7 may help. It's unclear. It doesn't hurt.
GAC yes, GFO no.
Avoid trace element additions. That's usually the resource that tends to restrain dinos when depleted.
Vacuuming sand is helpful.

DinoX is a general algaecide. Not dino specific.

 

[bdare]

MB7 may help. It's unclear. It doesn't hurt.
GAC yes, GFO no.
Avoid trace element additions. That's usually the resource that tends to restrain dinos when depleted.
Vacuuming sand is helpful.

DinoX is a general algaecide. Not dino specific.

Thanks.

 

[MickeyCT]

The other thing that I think really helped me was keeping the pH on the higher side. My tank tended to run between 8.0 and 8.2 and I tried to raise it to between 8.3 and 8.5 and keep it in that range. I don't think the dinos like the higher pH and read some info from RHF to that effect. I ended up adding a slurry once or twice a day of 1-2 tsps of Kalk powder in a cup of water to get the pH up.

The big thing is to be patient and keep it up. It does work but it takes weeks. I think it was 2 months before mine are all gone. Things cleared up pretty quick but if I let up on the regimen, they started coming back in a day or two.

Good luck.

 

[thedon986]

Well, add me to the group. I confirmed yesterday I have amphidinium. I have been treating as cyano for about a month but it wasn't until I found this thread that I knew you could have dinos without the typical bubbles and snot. My nutrients have been too low and my tank too new. I have been vacuuming sand and that has kept them at bay for now. I have ordered phosphate, nitrate and silica supplements to start fighting. I also have Dr Tims Re-Fresh and Waste Away. I thought about starting with that, but read on here conflicting opinions on blackouts (according to Dr Tim's recommendation). Has anyone had any real success with blackouts? Would prefer to stress my corals the least I can while I fight. Any help would be great, thanks.

 

[Neoalchemist]

Hello all,

I have confirmed I'm battling large cell Amphidinium. I've been trying to fight them for awhile with not a ton of success. I've read through most of this thread and I'm trying to come up with a game plan. From what I can tell everyone agrees that maintaining Silicate, nitrate and phosphate are essential. Aside from that here is what I'd like to know:

1) Microbacter dosing? In other threads I've seen people say this can help fuel dino growth. What's the consensus here?
2) GFO - I've seen serveral people comment that they are replacing it weekly. Is it generally agreed upon that GAC is part of the game plan?
3) Limit nutrients like iron and iodine which fuel dinos. Again.. I've seem some say they continue adding these things while other threads / articles advise against it.
4) Stir the sand or don't stir the sand?

My nitrates are currently at 15. Phosphate is .14. I have a UV sterilizer running which I understand won't be much help with Amph as they stay in the sand. I just finished a 48 hour complete black out and heavy Dino X dosing. Although the sand and rocks look great I can already see them coming back. I scooped some of the sand and checked under a microscope... they're definitely still there.

My plan going forward (unless someone advises otherwise) is to not dose anything other than Sponge Excel. I'm currently adding 26 drops per day in my tank which is about 250 total gallons. Running my skimmer wet. Replacing filter socks about once every 5 days. No GFO or GAC. I don't currently have any cheato. It all died. I'm guessing from DinoX doses.

Anything else?

Thanks in advance.

Ben

Only thing to add to what you are currently doing is manual removal. Take the dinos and the sand they are occupying. (If you have sand) you can wash and return the sand slowly when the outbreak is under control. Fine tuning your no3 and po4 would be a good idea too. Strive for po4 right at or slightly under .1 but more important would be to raise n03 a little bit more. Ive never held much stock in the Redfield ratio,( which if your not familiar with is a theoretical perfect ratio of no3 to po4), but Ive found by experiance that once a solid baseline for po4 is acheaved. A 3 to 1 ratio makes a visible difference
A long way of saying, let your po4 come down a bit and raise your no3 some.

 

[edolan]

Do any of you have other growth in your sand bed along with amphidinium or is it just the dinos? I get this growth first and when it expands amphidinium starts to show up. From what I see under the scope it likes to hover around it like it is feeding off of it. I thoroughly cleaned my sand and after a few days this is what I found attached to the sand.

It turned into this after about a week and I am seeing the first signs of amphidinium again.

It seems in my case I have to handle whatever this stuff is first. I have no idea what to do now.

 

[taricha]

I saw your video closeup in another thread, guess I forgot to comment on it. This is a dinoflagellate cyst (probably). Likely a resting stage of dinos you already see elsewhere in the system.
here's a vid of some I had in a small tank of mine.

 

[edolan]

Thanks @taricha. I really appreciate your response. Is it known how amphidinium reproduce? I thought I read that they reproduce by cell division. Do they release spores? In my first pic of the grain of sand it is covered by what looks like the cysts but they are way smaller.

In fighting this I siphoned out about a quarter of my sand bed. I thoroughly washed it with tap water, I treated with hydrogen peroxide over night, rinsed again and then put in the dark in my sump for two weeks. I stirred it daily to aerate it and treated it by injecting bacteria into it by mixing it with tank water and a syringe. I dosed Vibrant every other day three times to hopefully breakdown waste and Seachem Stability every other day three times in an atempt to coat sand with beneficial bacteria to ward off this stuff. I was hoping I could stay ahead of the spread of this. When I placed the sand in the display under light regrowth was slower but it came back with a slight discoloration first which when I looked under the scope all I saw was what is in my first pic of the grain of sand (tiny cysts).

Maybe it is not known but I am trying to understand where in the life cycle amphidiniums are produced. From my observations it appears the larger cysts are releasing the smaller cysts (spores?). The treated sand I replaced in the tank was about 80% covered in three days with the tiny cysts but I didn't see any signs of amphidinium. Is it possible the cysts just create more cysts and then under the right conditions amphidiniums are released? Man this stuff is exhausting.

Thanks for your time and I hope you and everyone else here on R2R stays healthy.

 

[merereef]

@taricha hi ive been dosing 10ml of silicates to a 60gallon tank daily dinos went away... i then reduced the dose to 3ml a day the dinos came back.. shall i keep dosing at 10 ml? Im noticing when i dose 10 ml im getting white furr like substance on my rocks

 

[merereef]

@taricha after about 3 days the sand is brown and i stir it up then 3 days later the sand is brown.. not like before where the dinos came back immediately

 

[bdare]

@taricha after about 3 days the sand is brown and i stir it up then 3 days later the sand is brown.. not like before where the dinos came back immediately

Have you checked the sand under the microscope? Confirmed it's Dinos and not diatoms?

 

[merereef]

Have you checked the sand under the microscope? Confirmed it's Dinos and not diatoms?

Yes... i am an idiot loll... i will do that hahaha why the hell didnt i think of that!!!

 

[Neoalchemist]

@edolan , I had luck letting the sand sun dry for at least a week. I'm not sure but I believe the solar uv can kill the cyst. I put out small batches and turned the sand over daily.
I have the advantage of Colorado sun but it should work fine in most places.

 

[Neoalchemist]

I have had them for a few months now and my nitrates have been 10+ and phosphates .02-.05.

For almost all po4 test .02 is likely zero. The acceptable error range is .03

 

[bdare]

Do these look like diatoms?

 

[dwest]

Do these look like diatoms?

They don’t look like diatoms to me. Maybe chrysophytes?

 

[bdare]

They don’t look like diatoms to me. Maybe chrysophytes?

Yep! I'm guessing they are a result of all the silicate I've been dosing. I'm assuming I should just let them be?

 

[dwest]

To be honest, I only had a few chrysophytes back when I had dinos. So I just sucked them out and they went away with my dinos eventually. I know there is at least one thread out there. I don’t remember them causing my tank problems. At least compared to dinos. Good luck.