Is it ich?

[jabberwock]

This picture is taken with my phone through a magnifiying glass. Not the best quality, but to my point... I can see very very tiny white dots on the fish through the magnifying glass. I didn’t think ich was this small. Is this ich?

 

[HotRocks]

Maybe try taking a pic without the magnifying glass.

I can't see any ich in that pic.

 

[jabberwock]

No magnifying glass this time. He is scratching on a zoa frag, and the sand.

 

[jabberwock]

Thank you! BTW I have been treating with Ich Attack for 3 days and running a UV sterilizer for 5 days.

 

[Humblefish]

More likely velvet: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

 

[HotRocks]

I would also suspect velvet. That was my initial thought when you said tiny white spots. And they weren't visible on photo.

 

[jabberwock]

More likely velvet: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Yes indeed, I believe that is it. Most likely the fish is not dead yet because I immediately started the UV sterilizer (buying time). The ich attach has been "effective", but is clearly not a complete solution.

 

[4FordFamily]

Yes indeed, I believe that is it. Most likely the fish is not dead yet because I immediately started the UV sterilizer (buying time). The ich attach has been "effective", but is clearly not a complete solution.

Ich attack won’t do anything notable for velvet, I highly doubt a UV will marginally impact if either. Believe me, we all wish it was that easy.

That tank needs to go fallow 76 days and the fish removed to a QT and treated with CP or Copper.

 

[jabberwock]

Ich attack won’t do anything notable for velvet, I highly doubt a UV will marginally impact if either. Believe me, we all wish it was that easy.

That tank needs to go fallow 76 days and the fish removed to a QT and treated with CP or Copper.

Well, I guess they are all doomed then. Royal Gramma, Firefish, and Yellow Watchman Goby. We will see how long it takes for them to die in order to save a handful of coral frags and some snails...

I do appreciate the info.

 

[4FordFamily]

Well, I guess they are all doomed then. Royal Gramma, Firefish, and Yellow Watchman Goby. We will see how long it takes for them to die in order to save a handful of coral frags and some snails...

I do appreciate the info.

Why wait until they die...?

 

[jabberwock]

Why wait until they die...?

A quarantine tank is not feasible right now. It will have to be what it is.

 

[jabberwock]

UPDATE - I now suspect the original diagnosis of ich was correct. The ich attack has helped the fish to cope, and I believe it is now 90% free of active parasites on its body. I can only speculate that the UV sterilizer has helped. Overall the fish looks and acts much better. I will continue treatment for a few more days and hope for the best. The other fish show no signs of illness. I understand that this is not a comprehensive solution, but the situation has improved, and I am thankful for that.

Oh, side note - I had to remove my "purfiltrum" in order to use the ich attack, and I now have a lovely cyanobacteria bloom that I have been siphoning up every few days (this also has increased small water change frequency, another positive contributing factor). Also, if you are running without carbon or "purfiltrum" I recommend that you DO NOT feed corals with products that will boost your nutrient import levels (hence the cyano farm...)

I appreciate all those who have made suggestions and posts. Thanks!

 

[jabberwock]

Fish is looking good. Stopped using ich attack and UV on Thursday. As I understand the herbal is an irritant that helps increase a fish's slime coat. So not really attaching the ich but helping the fish cope. I believe it did that...

Did a good cyano vacuum with just the tube of the vacuum/water change. Treated with chemi clean Thursday evening. Saturday morning the cyano is 99% gone. I am contemplating doing the prescribed 20% water change and running a second treatment of chemi clean in order to knock it down "completely" and reduce the chance of getting "super cyano" that is resistant to antibiotics. I realize I may jeopardize my cycle, but I could add some seed bacteria afterwards. Any thoughts?

 

[Amado]

Why is this our problem ? Why is it ok for local fish stores to sell sick fish? Why do we need to setup multiple tanks to quarentine and medicate fish and coral ? This would not be acceptable in any other part of our life. Why is it our problem if we give $200 to the local fish store for a sick fish? Shouldnt they be responsible for their live stock ? Most people that get ick or velvet leave the hobby.
So why is the consumer to blame?

 

[HotRocks]

Why is this our problem ? Why is it ok for local fish stores to sell sick fish? Why do we need to setup multiple tanks to quarentine and medicate fish and coral ? This would not be acceptable in any other part of our life. Why is it our problem if we give $200 to the local fish store for a sick fish? Shouldnt they be responsible for their live stock ? Most people that get ick or velvet leave the hobby.
So why is the consumer to blame?

Because there are no regulations in place. So they can do whatever they want.

It's a catch 22, if all vendors properly treated all fish, prices would go up substantially, which most people would be fine with. The problem is there is still no guarantee. Selling fish at the volume most of these vendors do, it would be very difficult to provide 100% disease free fish.

 

[Amado]

You don’t need regulations. We can make change with our $$$ if we stop buying fish until the fish store start holding and quarantining fish. Treating fish with copper should be done at the store level. We have to stop accepting this half butt attempt of the hobby.

 

[jabberwock]

Gave the chemi clean an extra 12 hours and cyano seems to be completely gone. I am going to do a 20% water change per the product's instructions. Now my YWG is allowing himself to be impinged on the upper pump intake. He is able to swim away from it, and no obvious signs of illness or damage. I assume this is the beginning of the end for him... The other two fish appear fine.

temp = 80
nitrates = 0
nitrite = 0
ammonia = 0
pH = 8.1
phosphate = 0
calcium = 400
carbonate = 9 dKH or 161.1 ppm
specific gravity = 1.026

 

[jabberwock]

You don’t need regulations. We can make change with our $$$ if we stop buying fish until the fish store start holding and quarantining fish. Treating fish with copper should be done at the store level. We have to stop accepting this half *** attempt of the hobby.

I am lucky to have 3 large LFSs close to my home/work areas. One of them has had 3 out the 4 things I bought from them die. I don't go to that one anymore. Number two is super expensive with supplies, but has a 24 hour fish guarantee, and sells the the right water for me. Number three has all reasonable prices, but no livestock guarantee, and does not sell the water I need. I have found that one and two will tell you whatever you want to hear in order to make the sale. Number three seems genuinely concerned that I am successful. So, yeah, you have to shop around.

I am not so sure that they are "sick fish". We are creating confined artificial deserts that are about a billionth of the biodiversity that they have in the wild. We are asking them to survive in crazy environs. Their ability to cope with diseases is a normal part of reality in the wild (or they get eaten).

It is like a human in outer space. We need a bunch of elaborate equipment to try and mimic survivable conditions. If you go outside and take your helmet off, you are dead.

 

[jabberwock]

Water change was minimally invasive. The tank has been through a lot the last couple of weeks. I did not clean the tank or sand, just rinsed the first filter pad and added back the purfiltrum. I removed the air stone. All the while, the YWG swam around the top 1/3 of the tank, fit as a fiddle, fins all spread out, looking great. Then he settled into one of his regular cave burrows. Seems to be acting normal. Maybe he did not like the air stone?

 

[Clownfish2]

This picture is taken with my phone through a magnifiying glass. Not the best quality, but to my point... I can see very very tiny white dots on the fish through the magnifying glass. I didn’t think ich was this small. Is this ich?

I do not think this is parasitic. Those dots are too symmetrical and can be seen on many royal grammas.

Here’s a google picture: