My Current QT Process

[Sixty7x]

Well, after some consideration and lots of reading.....I'm not sure if my clowns had/have internal parasites or it was diet related. There's lots of information and I still don't know what to make of all the information. What I decided to do was place them into display tank and feed unmedicated food. I certainly don't condone anyone doing this, it's just what I did. This was my first time with any quarantine/medicated process. I also don't doubt there's something I missed or am understanding wrong. The fish are doing fine, eating well and looking as they should. They are very active, have all their color and poop tends to look like what they've eaten. It has been recommended to me by a few members to try and get some beta glucan 1,3 and add this to their food. I'd like to read a bit more on it but it looks like it should help their immune system?

 

[BAPrince]

So... I'm new to the hobby. I've will have an approx 180g tank up by sometime this summer. In the meantime, knowing I needed to "test my skills" on something smaller, I picked up two AIO cubes. Based on all I've learned here on R2R, I am setting one up as a "fishless" frag tank... it's cycling now. The other I knew would be some type of hospital tank. Fast forward to now... I just spent the last week reading through ALL of these wonderful 59 pages started by @HotRocks, and most of the 105 pages of "How to Quarantine" by @Humblefish. WOW! I think I'm ready to buy my first 2 fish in the next week. I REALLY want to do it right from the beginning, and I am so excited to begin.

I bought a 3rd tank (1st pic below), which will be the QT for the 14 day copper treatment. I do believe I have it set up correctly. I have all the meds, hanna checker, etc ready to go.

My question is.... and I didn't read anything about it in over 100 pages... the 2nd "observation" tank (2nd pic below) for the sterile transfer... can it have rock and sand? I want to do it RIGHT, first and foremost. AND, the wife will be a lot happier if it looks great, since I currently have it set up in the entry way of our house.

Thank you for any answers/thoughts you can provide!

 

[Sixty7x]

My question is.... and I didn't read anything about it in over 100 pages... the 2nd "observation" tank (2nd pic below) for the sterile transfer... can it have rock and sand? I want to do it RIGHT, first and foremost. AND, the wife will be a lot happier if it looks great, since I currently have it set up in the entry way of our house.

Thank you for any answers/thoughts you can provide!

I believe it's suggested to keep sand and rock out of both copper and 2nd sterile. If you are QT'ing a fish that needs sand then a small container with sand that can be removed is suggested. I'm not sure, but rock/sand might absorb some of the meds? Invert tanks are also something different and most of these I see with rock/sand because they need to remain fallow and cannot use meds.

 

[4FordFamily]

UPDATE: 04/28/2020 - Possible velvet survived even higher concentrations... continue reading.

I've had 4 batches of fish this year thus far, and I thought I'd report some findings and my new method. First of all, I've added a diatom filter to the quarantines to handle UNBELIEVABLY cloudy water. I use Instant Ocean and Reef Crystals, both were equally bad. I use DE and it's worked quite well.

My current method:
Copper 2.25-2.5 PPM for 14 days, metroplex concurrently. Testing with Hanna only. Feeding GC for the second week in this tank. I do not treat with prazipro unless I see evidence of flukes, I wait until the second 14 day period in the second sterile QT.

New quarantine for 14 days observation. I treat with prazi during this time, 1.25x recommended concentration 5-7 days apart. I feed GC and Focus mixed for the first week in here (14 days total) for internal parasites.

I don't use spectrogram or any other antibiotic unless needed. You can add it in either 14 day period if needed -- if you do, diatom filter won't be necessary, as spectogram usually doesn't allow for bacterial blooms I have been experiencing. It does, however, sometimes take its' toll on the beneficial bacteria, so watch your seachem ammonia alert badges and have biospira on ready.

Each batch I start fresh, dry out completely OR bleach in-between.

I've also switched to CP for batch 4 because I've had two failed Copper batches. Full disclosure -- I used 2.25-2.5PPM both times HOWEVER I have been sloppy and multi-tasking so it's possible both failed attempts were cross-contamination with food, hands in tanks, drain hoses, and a myriad of other ways. I am unsure if velvet survived copper or if it was user error. I do not think I cross-contaminated but I am often mindlessly working down there or distracted on the phone. I have also asked @Humblefish, who said he has had one other report similar, but otherwise we may be the only two.

I've moved to CP recently with good success so far. Fish seem happier, but we will see if it's effective or if I mess up again. CP is difficult to get right now, obviously, but I had a bit left over. I am still pretty confident in Copper Power at 2-2.5PPM, but it is POSSIBLE perhaps that velvet is surviving even higher concentrations of copper. I am unsure.

Because of my working from home, being a kindergarten teacher to my 6 year old daughter, a daycare for my 4 year old son, and a massive uptick in business for me with all of this coranavirus stuff, I am stretched very thin and when I try to multi-task (talk to clients while working in fish room) I have caught myself making silly errors I wouldn't under less pressure and under normal circumstances. In short, I am stretched very thin.

IF velvet HAS adapted to higher levels of copper, I don't think increasing the time in copper will help, and who knows if increasing copper would help. In theory it would. We suspect that the distribution system is using higher levels of copper which again, as we claimed 2 years ago or so COULD mean that velvet is adapting and can survive higher concentrations of copper. I've seen NO evidence of ich after any treatment.

@Humblefish and others will be experimenting further with hydrogren peroxide, which may show promise in the future. But for now, I'd continue course but DEFINITELY OBSERVE FOR 14 DAYS after treatment. It's been coming back within 3-5 days.

@HotRocks @Big G

 

[JCTReefer]

@HotRocks
Hello,
I’m upgrading to a 210. Current fish are, 1 Clownfish, Yellow Tang, Azure Damsel, Melanurus Wrasse, Royal Gramma. All fish besides the Clownfish were quarantined per your method. I’ve had great success using this treatment. The Clownfish that weren’t quarantined came from Sustainable Aquatics. They swore that their fish are disease free, and that the hatchery never comes in contact with wild caught fish or invertebrates. The male clown mysteriously died about a 1/2 a year ago. No clue why. The clowns were the first fish added. All my current fish are alive and well. No symptoms of anything since they’ve been in the tank. My last addition was the Yellow tang. He finished quarantine and was added on 9-29-19. He is fat and happy along with the rest. My first batch of corals were quarantined, but every thing else “coral wise” hasn’t been quarantined since then. So all corals over the last 2 years haven’t been quarantined. When I get the 210 up and running I plan on transferring all my current inhabitants. My question is, would you re-quarantine everything before transferring to the new tank? And let the current tank go fallow before transferring corals? All new fish will be quarantined per your method also. Regal tang, Fox Face “one spot”, 6 more Azure Damsels, Emperor Angel, and one more Clownfish to replace the one I lost. These will all be quarantined before going into the 210. I thought of using the current 54 gallon for this and doing all new additions at the same time. Or I might just use the 2, 20 longs like I have been. I already have two of every thing “equipment wise” to transfer at the 14 day mark after copper treatment to sterile tank. Or might just do everything in small batches. All future corals will be quarantined also. So to re-quarantine or not is the question. Would it be worth the added stress? I’m just hoping fish will be available in the future. Not really sure with this epidemic. Wholesaler shutting down. No livestock available. Government talking about banning international imports. Who knows, I may not be adding any new fish to the new tank. Hopefully this blows over. Lmk what you think when its convenient.
Thank you,
Jeff
I’m also considering increasing the copper levels to 2.25-2.50 per @4FordFamily
I’ll probably shoot for 2.35 or so. I definitely don’t want velvet in the display.

 

[4FordFamily]

@HotRocks
Hello,
I’m upgrading to a 210. Current fish are, 1 Clownfish, Yellow Tang, Azure Damsel, Melanurus Wrasse, Royal Gramma. All fish besides the Clownfish were quarantined per your method. I’ve had great success using this treatment. The Clownfish that weren’t quarantined came from Sustainable Aquatics. They swore that their fish are disease free, and that the hatchery never comes in contact with wild caught fish or invertebrates. The male clown mysteriously died about a 1/2 a year ago. No clue why. The clowns were the first fish added. All my current fish are alive and well. No symptoms of anything since they’ve been in the tank. My last addition was the Yellow tang. He finished quarantine and was added on 9-29-19. He is fat and happy along with the rest. My first batch of corals were quarantined, but every thing else “coral wise” hasn’t been quarantined since then. So all corals over the last 2 years haven’t been quarantined. When I get the 210 up and running I plan on transferring all my current inhabitants. My question is, would you re-quarantine everything before transferring to the new tank? And let the current tank go fallow before transferring corals? All new fish will be quarantined per your method also. Regal tang, Fox Face “one spot”, 6 more Azure Damsels, Emperor Angel, and one more Clownfish to replace the one I lost. These will all be quarantined before going into the 210. I thought of using the current 54 gallon for this and doing all new additions at the same time. Or I might just use the 2, 20 longs like I have been. I already have two of every thing “equipment wise” to transfer at the 14 day mark after copper treatment to sterile tank. Or might just do everything in small batches. All future corals will be quarantined also. So to re-quarantine or not is the question. Would it be worth the added stress? I’m just hoping fish will be available in the future. Not really sure with this epidemic. Wholesaler shutting down. No livestock available. Government talking about banning international imports. Who knows, I may not be adding any new fish to the new tank. Hopefully this blows over. Lmk what you think when its convenient.
Thank you,
Jeff
I’m also considering increasing the copper levels to 2.25-2.50 per @4FordFamily
I’ll probably shoot for 2.35 or so. I definitely don’t want velvet in the display.

If you’re not seeing any issues you could go either way. If there’s no way for parasites to come in from before or it’s highly unlikely I wouldn’t. If any question, quarantine.

 

[NC2WA]

I am frequently asked what my process is for QT, so I am just creating a thread that I can link users to for a reference.

On arrival day, I match salinity in QT to arriving fish or make sure it's a touch lower (Usually 1.018).

Acclimate (float for 30-45min in bag and release) fish directly into a QT that is pre-dosed to 1.0ppm copper (copper power) upon arrival. This is much safer than drip acclimation and removes the possibility of ammonia exposure during acclimation.

I start fish off on food soaked general cure + Focus day one (continue for 14 days).
I do also keep live food on hand and feed live foods as well for the first few days until the picky eaters and others are eating frozen well.

Dosage for food soaked meds:
Add 1 scoop of GC (scoop that comes with focus) + 1 scoop focus per 1 tablsespoon of prepared frozen food. I add selcon + a touch of garlic to help dissolve the meds.
*You can also use Metroplex in place of general cure, it does however only treat for intestinal parasites instead of intestinal parasites + worms*. This food can be refrigerated once medicated. Is for 3-5 days, toss and make new.

Then I spend the next three days raising cu level to 2.0PPM. increasing the level .25ppm per day or several small doses (the time is less important than the small increments). I do this by dosing half of the daily increase in the am and the other half in the pm.

At this point I am watching very closely for external symptoms of bacterial infections. If one arises or a fish prone to infection stops eating then I dose Spectogram (Kanamycin+Nitrofurazone) and continue throughout copper. You can also use Kanaplex+furan-2. The WCs are fun maintaining the therapeutic Cu level. But once you have the hang of it, it's not bad. Copper has to be pre-dosed into new SW prior to adding to tank to keep Cu level from dropping below therapeutic.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ratios-for-dosing-copper-power.385871/

Also, If you are combining ABX + Copper you need heavy agitation at the surface of the water. This can be best achieved by running a powerhead aimed upward at the surface. I also run air stone and HOB filter. The combination of these meds will deplete the water column of oxygen at a heavy rate so you have to compensate.

Keep in mind ABX are slow to work on fish. They are likely to be even slower in the presence of copper due to the weakened immune system. So the Spectogram IME has always prevented infection from worsening. Some have healed. I do also keep Sulfaplex and Neoplex handy for certain types of infections. They are safe to use with copper.

After 14 days of therapeutic copper I transfer to a 2nd sterile QT. Temp/salinity matching.

After the transfer if I have a fish that is still showing signs of infection I would run a 14 day course of NFG. If no signs of infection is present I would skip NFG.

Last step is two rounds of Praziquantel using either GC or Prazipro. I prefer GC as it contains metronidazole as well and covers a few other diseases like Brook and uronema. This treatment is dosed into the water column to treat externally, as I have covered internal issues during copper with the food soaked meds.

14 Days of observation post medications prior to transfer to DT in order to make sure the fish are healthy and disease free.

This is a very aggressive approach. I can tell you though I have improved my success rate significantly since adapting to this method. It is not bulletproof. The bottom line is you may have to changeup in the middle of the process due to unforeseen circumstances.

After the Hanna checker discovery I was getting fish through copper without much issue, but using the same tank and treating for 30 days I was losing fish in the 20-30 day range to bacterial infection. So now using multiple tanks and reducing the copper exposure time along with having the proper ABX to be used with/without copper it is what worked best for me. We are still working on tweaking it a bit. Most of this system was designed/adapted with much help of @Humblefish + @4FordFamily. To keep up with the unfortunate condition we have recently been receiving it may have to be altered as time passes.

I also preform FW dips if I see a fish scratching in copper (After 7 days at the therapeutic level) to check for flukes and/or provide temporary relief. If a fish arrives with velvet/velvet symptoms they get a FW dip as well as a 90 min Ruby Reef rally bath per @Humblefish's normal protocol.

Fish with suspected ammonia burn would receive a 30 min bath in Methalyne Blue.

My Personal Medication list:
Copper Power
API General Cure
NFG http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html
Spectrogram http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html#spectrogram
Kanaplex
Metroplex
Neoplex
Sulfaplex
Furan-2
Methalyne Blue
Ruby Reef Rally
Formalin

This is a very helpful link by @Humblefish regarding fish meds:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/medications-to-keep-on-hand.213574/

Couple other great links regarding QT:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-dos-and-don’ts-of-quarantine.203898/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-control-in-a-hospital-tank.296119/

UPDATE: We have discovered at least one strain of velvet that survives 1.75 PPM copper, we recommend increasing to 2.0PPM to eradicate it.

UPDATE 2 4/28/2020 - https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/post-7398921

hotrocks,

can you combine GC with copper power? or should they be separate treatments?
I am getting some bimac anthias and want to prevent uronemia in QT. thanks

 

[Kyle Bruin]

Is there a certain type of container I should use to mix and hold 2.0ppm CU salt water to use for water changes? I assume that certain materials might absorb the copper, diluting it's level and also then leaching it back when its used again for a different task? Plastic HD bucket? Glass? Brute trash can?

 

[JCTReefer]

Is there a certain type of container I should use to mix and hold 2.0ppm CU salt water to use for water changes? I assume that certain materials might absorb the copper, diluting it's level and also then leaching it back when its used again for a different task? Plastic HD bucket? Glass? Brute trash can?

Bucket safe to use after copper exposure?

I have some white food safe buckets, 5 gals and smaller. One of the smaller buckets I have used with the fish QT tank which means that it has had salt water in it that had copper in it. After rinsing and sitting for days, is it safe to use for main reef tank? Does the copper leach into the...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[canadianeh]

This is a great write up ! Thanks @HotRocks

I have a brand new tank and about to pick up a pair of mocha storm clowns that will cost me $300. I want to do it right and they will be my first fish.

Some people argue that it is better to not use any medication at all and just qt fish by observing them only and only use medication when it is needed. What’s your take on this? There is also risk of losing fish when using medication especially for people never medicate fish at all. I gotta say your process is a bit overwhelming for me and I am worried of using all of these medication and end up killing the fish.

 

[Kyle Bruin]

With this QT process is it helpful to use an HOB filter? Are you ever running carbon during the treatment period? Any downside of just a power head like a korelia nano 240 and a sponge filter for air bubbles? Just wondering if I can ditch the HOB I have. Kinda feels like it doesn’t really do much right now.

 

[keywestreefer]

Has anyone created a spreadsheet to track this process? One with dates and instructions to follow along?

 

[Okinawa_reefer]

Has anyone created a spreadsheet to track this process? One with dates and instructions to follow along?

I actually thought about doing this. The problem is that there’s too many variables and changes that’s needed on the fly if you experience various issues. That said, rather than excel spreadsheet I thought I might be able to design a calendar that would cover the basics. If I do I’ll post it here.

 

[keywestreefer]

I actually thought about doing this. The problem is that there’s too many variables and changes that’s needed on the fly if you experience various issues. That said, rather than excel spreadsheet I thought I might be able to design a calendar that would cover the basics. If I do I’ll post it here.

I'm working on a simple sheet with the basic, and adding the notes to the side.

I do have a question (for anyone willing to answer) - I am going to have fish in Quarantine while my display tank is cycling. As I am not using DT water or any established media, should I use Biospira and wait a couple of days, ghost feed flake, pice of live rock? I know there are a lot of options but I want to keep my display tank as safe as possible.

 

[alan.reef]

quick question. can UV be used while using medication in quarantine tank?
Thx

 

[BAPrince]

SO much thanks to everyone on this thread for all the great knowledge... and especially @Humblefish, @HotRocks, and @4FordFamily! My first two fish, Pan and Demic, have made it out of quarantine and into their temporary new home. They say THANK YOU!

 

[BAPrince]

Has anyone created a spreadsheet to track this process? One with dates and instructions to follow along?

This is a spreadsheet/calendar I created to help me keep track of the QT process. I posted it on the @Humblefish website, and I got the "pretty darn close" thumbs up. I think it's accurate to recommended best practices of this thread, and yet as mentioned above, may not take into consideration other variables that may arise. I am NOT the expert, but needed a condensed calendar to visually follow as I went through the process. I printed it, and then added handwritten calendar dates on it so I didn't lose track. Also, I found there was enough room in each cell to write my copper test results. Moderators of this thread... if you don't want this posted here... or suggest any corrections... please let me know!

 

[Maxx]

UPDATE: 04/28/2020 - Possible velvet survived even higher concentrations... continue reading.

I've had 4 batches of fish this year thus far, and I thought I'd report some findings and my new method. First of all, I've added a diatom filter to the quarantines to handle UNBELIEVABLY cloudy water. I use Instant Ocean and Reef Crystals, both were equally bad. I use DE (What is DE?) and it's worked quite well.

My current method:
Copper 2.25-2.5 PPM for 14 days, metroplex concurrently. Testing with Hanna only. Feeding GC (What is GC?) for the second week in this tank. I do not treat with prazipro unless I see evidence of flukes, I wait until the second 14 day period in the second sterile QT.

New quarantine for 14 days observation. I treat with prazi during this time, 1.25x recommended concentration 5-7 days apart. I feed GC and Focus mixed for the first week in here (14 days total) for internal parasites.

I don't use spectrogram or any other antibiotic unless needed. You can add it in either 14 day period if needed -- if you do, diatom filter won't be necessary, as spectogram usually doesn't allow for bacterial blooms I have been experiencing. It does, however, sometimes take its' toll on the beneficial bacteria, so watch your seachem ammonia alert badges and have biospira on ready.

Each batch I start fresh, dry out completely OR bleach in-between.

I've also switched to CP for batch 4 because I've had two failed Copper batches. Full disclosure -- I used 2.25-2.5PPM both times HOWEVER I have been sloppy and multi-tasking so it's possible both failed attempts were cross-contamination with food, hands in tanks, drain hoses, and a myriad of other ways. I am unsure if velvet survived copper or if it was user error. I do not think I cross-contaminated but I am often mindlessly working down there or distracted on the phone. I have also asked @Humblefish, who said he has had one other report similar, but otherwise we may be the only two.

I've moved to CP recently with good success so far. Fish seem happier, but we will see if it's effective or if I mess up again. CP is difficult to get right now, obviously, but I had a bit left over. I am still pretty confident in Copper Power at 2-2.5PPM, but it is POSSIBLE perhaps that velvet is surviving even higher concentrations of copper. I am unsure.

Because of my working from home, being a kindergarten teacher to my 6 year old daughter, a daycare for my 4 year old son, and a massive uptick in business for me with all of this coranavirus stuff, I am stretched very thin and when I try to multi-task (talk to clients while working in fish room) I have caught myself making silly errors I wouldn't under less pressure and under normal circumstances. In short, I am stretched very thin.

IF velvet HAS adapted to higher levels of copper, I don't think increasing the time in copper will help, and who knows if increasing copper would help. In theory it would. We suspect that the distribution system is using higher levels of copper which again, as we claimed 2 years ago or so COULD mean that velvet is adapting and can survive higher concentrations of copper. I've seen NO evidence of ich after any treatment.

@Humblefish and others will be experimenting further with hydrogren peroxide, which may show promise in the future. But for now, I'd continue course but DEFINITELY OBSERVE FOR 14 DAYS after treatment. It's been coming back within 3-5 days.

@HotRocks @Big G

@4FordFamily

This thread is 59 pages long and spans two years time. Things have changed from the beginning so it's impractical to read the whole thread for clarification of abbreviations and acronyms.

Could you please explain the abbreviations in your post above? (What does DE and GC mean in your above post?)

Thanks in advance.

 

[4FordFamily]

quick question. can UV be used while using medication in quarantine tank?
Thx

This is not advisable as it impacts medications, and makes copper more poisonous if I recall.

Does UV remove copper

I have a hospital tank with UV and copper . The seachem Cupramine product says in the directions to turn off UV. Wondering why it says that and if it will destroy the copper or is there another reason. I prefer not to turn off the ultraviolet sterilizer but I will if necessary .

www.reef2reef.com

@4FordFamily

This thread is 59 pages long and spans two years time. Things have changed from the beginning so it's impractical to read the whole thread for clarification of abbreviations and acronyms.

Could you please explain the abbreviations in your post above? (What does DE and GC mean in your above post?)

Thanks in advance.

GC is "General Cure" which is praziquantel and metropelx combined.

DE is diatomaceous earth.

 

[Reef Pro]

@HotRocks @Humblefish quick question... when you acclimate those sensitive fairy wrasses to the QT pre dosed at 1 PPM Copper (Copper Power) do you drip acclimate them in? I have a few higher end fairies coming from the west coast and normally use an ammonia reducer such as prime so as the ph raises the ammonium doesn't turn into ammonia and burn there gils.... now since Ill be acclimating to an already copper dosed tank... I am assuming I can't use the ammonia reducer... what would you recommend in this case? I would prefer not to strip the copper out of the system completely because that could give an opportunity for parasites to take hold however I would like the smoothest transition for these as possible as they are costly. Thanks so much in advance!