Phosphates and how to stop the outbreak

[nightmarepl]

hey guys, im having major phosphate problems, usually 1.50-2.00 ppm cant get rid of this dang thing. been noticing this red stingy algae ive been removing it looks like veins kind of not much
but all my rocks and equipment gets brownish like fuzzy algae i was told to scan phosphates and get a phosgard pack which i did didnt help at honestly tried using the chem pure blue that kind of helped alittle for the first 2-3 weeks now its crazy been using a brush to get it off everything.

also people told me get a reactor and run GFO but thats pretty expensive and heard its risky finding the right amount for a 10gallon

i made custom refugium i was thinking fo running some chaeto in there maybe thatll help?


tank specs :
light - AI Prime HD
10 gallon tank
temp 79
alk 9
calcium 480
nitrates 5
Phosphates 2.00
ph 1.025

 

[mta_morrow]

I find that a media bag of rowaphos will suck phosphates down quickly.

No reactor needed.

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

Are you using RO/DI water?

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

With a ten gallon you could use steam distilled from the grocery store.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

High phosphates typically comes from feeding too heavily and/or not having an adequate cleanup crew to handle the food left uneaten. I would recommend cutting back on the quantity of food given especially if you're using flake or pellets as these are very nutrient dense compared to frozen. Flake and pellets also break down and release these nutrients to the water far faster than frozen as well. If you use frozen food try rinsing it first as many types have all that nutrient laden juice mixed with it. This is good if you have a lot of filter feeders or SPS, but only to a point. This soup mix quickly breaks down in a system without a skimmer to pull it out before it can do so.

So adding some hermits and various types of snails will help keep the phosphates in check. Second thing is water changes. How frequently are you doing them? On a 10g tank the nutrient levels can climb much faster than say a 75+ gallon tank so doing a 2-3 gallon weekly water change will do wonders for the water quality/parameters. Lastly have you tested your source water? I ran into an issue with a local LFS that had a contaminated filter system and was producing water with a 1.2 phosphate level.

 

[SPR1968]

GFO will work but to start out you may need to change it frequently as it becomes quickly spent. If you don’t it won’t do anything and as time goes on you can change it less.

If you do use GFO just go easy to start with and let the system and corals adjust. I run in 24/7 in a reactor

But if you don’t want to use GFO just increase water changes with 0 TDS RODI water which should be easy in a 10g

 

[VR28man]

High phosphates typically comes from feeding too heavily and/or not having an adequate cleanup crew to I would recommend cutting back on the quantity of food given especially if you're using flake or pellets as these are very nutrient dense compared to frozen. Flake and pellets also break down and release these nutrients to the water far faster than frozen as well. If you use frozen food try rinsing it first as many types have all that nutrient laden juice mixed with it. This is good if you have a lot of filter feeders or SPS, but only to a point. This soup mix quickly breaks down in a system without a skimmer to pull it out before it can do so.

I apologize that this sounds hostile, since I’m asking straightway.

What is your basis for saying this? I ask you a particular because I see this alleged, but I’ve never had a explanation as good as yours.

Is there anecdotal, measurement based data available for this, at least?

 

[nightmarepl]

High phosphates typically comes from feeding too heavily and/or not having an adequate cleanup crew to handle the food left uneaten. I would recommend cutting back on the quantity of food given especially if you're using flake or pellets as these are very nutrient dense compared to frozen. Flake and pellets also break down and release these nutrients to the water far faster than frozen as well. If you use frozen food try rinsing it first as many types have all that nutrient laden juice mixed with it. This is good if you have a lot of filter feeders or SPS, but only to a point. This soup mix quickly breaks down in a system without a skimmer to pull it out before it can do so.

So adding some hermits and various types of snails will help keep the phosphates in check. Second thing is water changes. How frequently are you doing them? On a 10g tank the nutrient levels can climb much faster than say a 75+ gallon tank so doing a 2-3 gallon weekly water change will do wonders for the water quality/parameters. Lastly have you tested your source water? I ran into an issue with a local LFS that had a contaminated filter system and was producing water with a 1.2 phosphate level.

okay so the water i use is from the local water store i dont have a RODI system, i get RO water in 5 gallon jugs usually do 2-3gallon water changes every sunday my clean up crew is 4 narassius snails / 4 hermits / 2 margarita snails / 2 art snails so like 8 snails total 4 hermits the store swears they use RODI machine but i think tis RO water

 

[lapin]

I agree that you do have a phosphate issue. A 50% water change should cut them in half if your water change water has "0" phosphate.
If they climb back within a day or 2 then we need to figure out what is causing them and eliminate the source. If it was me and I had no very sensitive livestock I would do 50% water changes each week until my phosphate was down to .05. At this point you should see a reduction in algae growth and will not have to remove as much by hand. Chaeto in a fuge will help absorb some of your nutrients. I would not count on that to be your cure all in reducing them. I would not expect chem pure or rowaphos to do that either. They will help keep them in check.

I would like to know what type of rock you have. This might be a source of your phosphate issue.

Test your new water for N and P before mixing.

Opps for got to ask what is in your tank and how much do you feed per day and what do you feed

 

[nightmarepl]

High phosphates typically comes from feeding too heavily and/or not having an adequate cleanup crew to handle the food left uneaten. I would recommend cutting back on the quantity of food given especially if you're using flake or pellets as these are very nutrient dense compared to frozen. Flake and pellets also break down and release these nutrients to the water far faster than frozen as well. If you use frozen food try rinsing it first as many types have all that nutrient laden juice mixed with it. This is good if you have a lot of filter feeders or SPS, but only to a point. This soup mix quickly breaks down in a system without a skimmer to pull it out before it can do so.

So adding some hermits and various types of snails will help keep the phosphates in check. Second thing is water changes. How frequently are you doing them? On a 10g tank the nutrient levels can climb much faster than say a 75+ gallon tank so doing a 2-3 gallon weekly water change will do wonders for the water quality/parameters. Lastly have you tested your source water? I ran into an issue with a local LFS that had a contaminated filter system and was producing water with a 1.2 phosphate level.

also feeding wise i usually feed once a day 2 pitches of tiny pellets or 1 frozen cube didnt know about the draining or pallets and seaweed and once a week i do reef frensy

 

[mta_morrow]

I used to rinse my food, but that myth was debunked on here by our resident chemist through some testing.

I don’t waste my time rinsing frozen any more.

 

[nightmarepl]

I agree that you do have a phosphate issue. A 50% water change should cut them in half if your water change water has "0" phosphate.
If they climb back within a day or 2 then we need to figure out what is causing them and eliminate the source. If it was me and I had no very sensitive livestock I would do 50% water changes each week until my phosphate was down to .05. At this point you should see a reduction in algae growth and will not have to remove as much by hand. Chaeto in a fuge will help absorb some of your nutrients. I would not count on that to be your cure all in reducing them. I would not expect chem pure or rowaphos to do that either. They will help keep them in check.

I would like to know what type of rock you have. This might be a source of your phosphate issue.

well i got 3 purple live rocks from petco when i first started out, than a few live rocks from lfs been in the tank for like 9 months

 

[acabgd]

I'd first check that shop water. Mix it to 1.025 then test phosphate in that freshly made water and see if you're adding phosphate through water changes.

 

[nightmarepl]

I'd first check that shop water. Mix it to 1.025 then test phosphate in that freshly made water and see if you're adding phosphate through water changes.

yah didnt really come to mind ill check today ill be prepping water thanks

 

[Porpoise Hork]

I apologize that this sounds hostile, since I’m asking straightway.

What is your basis for saying this? I ask you a particular because I see this alleged, but I’ve never had a explanation as good as yours.

Is there anecdotal, measurement based data available for this, at least?

No worries, and it's a good question actually. There have been a number of studies that show the release of nutrients including phosphates from uneaten fish food as well as from their waste.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...elease_of_nutrients_from_fish_food_and_faeces

This article really breaks down how the food we feed our fish can impact the free nutrient levels found in our tanks.
https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

Basically as the uneaten food breaks down the proteins also break down and release the stored phosphates into the water column. The same happens for the fish poo as it decays and is processed by the various strains of bacteria in the environment. By limiting protein dense foods (pellets/flakes) to only what the fish actually can eat via target feeding you can mitigate much of the uneaten food issue as you can see the bulk of it is eaten right away. With frozen foods you can see a vast difference between rinsing vs thawing and then feeding. Rinsed will be clean where the only thawed food will also have that hazy cloud along with it. This cloud of nutrient rich particles will break down very rapidly compared to larger solid pieces of frozen. The difference is with the frozen is the length of time for it to degrade in the tank. With frozen/fresh taking far longer, it gives the clean up crew more time to locate and dispose of it compared to flakes or pellets.

also feeding wise i usually feed once a day 2 pitches of tiny pellets or 1 frozen cube didnt know about the draining or pallets and seaweed and once a week i do reef frensy

There is nothing wrong with using pellets for your primary food source. They are packed with nutrients and protein to help keep your fish happy and healthy. What I noticed over time when switching from flake/pellets to fresh/frozen prepared foods is the volume of waste produced by my fish. I would see far less fish poop when I fed a diet of mixed frozen/fresh than I did when feeding flake/pellets. You wouldn't want to rinse the pellets unless you had a fish that is rather finicky about the pellets being hard vs softened via soaking. I use a mixed food source of mysis, fish eggs or zoo plankton, and marine cuisine or sometimes fresh diced bay scallop or gulf shrimp. I thaw/rinse the food using a micro screen tea strainer and use a 10Ml dosing syringe with a length of airline and some tank water so I can target feed my fish and minimize the nutrient build up

The biggest thing to note with your nano setup is the lack of nutrient export other than water changes. Because of this you want to stay on top of what you're putting in the tank as it can and will build up over time. Another option for nutrient export is get a magnetic nori clip and get a golf ball sized chunk of chaeto or live ulva lactuca and secure it to the clip and stick it on the back glass in the tank or where ever will work. Either of these will go crazy on the phosphates especially the ulva and will quickly reduce them down. Then as they grow, you can remove portions of them effectively removing the trapped nutrients inside. If you go with ulva, it can be dried and then used to feed other herbivores as well.

The strainer I use is this one.

https://www.amazon.com/Empress-Tea-...8&qid=1546015214&sr=8-8&keywords=tea+strainer

It easily handles two cubes of mysis, a cube each of calimus (zoo plankton) or fish eggs and marine cuisine when thawing. I then transfer the food to the cup portion and suck it up from that for feeding.

 

[Super Fly]

Lots of good suggestions here, placing rowaphos in mesh bag will also work (not as effective as reactor but still will help). Are u running any skimmer? skimmer will help pull out PO4 as well.

AS far as water, u can also use distilled water from supermarkets ($1/gal) in case there was any doubt about the store water. Where r u located? I just upgraded my RODI and have a used Aquatic Life RODI Buddie system (compact unit, 50 gal/day) that u can have for free. DI resin is new and membrane/cartridges were replaced Mar. PM me if interested.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that you do have a phosphate issue. A 50% water change should cut them in half if your water change water has "0" phosphate.
If they climb back within a day or 2 then we need to figure out what is causing them and eliminate the source.

It will, even if he adds nothing, due to the phosphate that is bound to calcium carbonate surfaces. Even a 100% change rarely drops phosphate all that much.

 

[fish farmer]

I think you're feeding a lot per day for a 10 gallon. What do you have for livestock? Of course you can get away with feeding more if you have better nutrient export.

I rarely feed a whole cube of frozen to my 29 gallon tank with a three fish load, usually half a cube or less.

 

[nightmarepl]

I think you're feeding a lot per day for a 10 gallon. What do you have for livestock? Of course you can get away with feeding more if you have better nutrient export.

I rarely feed a whole cube of frozen to my 29 gallon tank with a three fish load, usually half a cube or less.

i have 2 clowns , scooter benny , watchman goby , cleaner shrimp , blood shrimp , emerald crab , pistol shrimp

 

[nightmarepl]

No worries, and it's a good question actually. There have been a number of studies that show the release of nutrients including phosphates from uneaten fish food as well as from their waste.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...elease_of_nutrients_from_fish_food_and_faeces

This article really breaks down how the food we feed our fish can impact the free nutrient levels found in our tanks.
https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

Basically as the uneaten food breaks down the proteins also break down and release the stored phosphates into the water column. The same happens for the fish poo as it decays and is processed by the various strains of bacteria in the environment. By limiting protein dense foods (pellets/flakes) to only what the fish actually can eat via target feeding you can mitigate much of the uneaten food issue as you can see the bulk of it is eaten right away. With frozen foods you can see a vast difference between rinsing vs thawing and then feeding. Rinsed will be clean where the only thawed food will also have that hazy cloud along with it. This cloud of nutrient rich particles will break down very rapidly compared to larger solid pieces of frozen. The difference is with the frozen is the length of time for it to degrade in the tank. With frozen/fresh taking far longer, it gives the clean up crew more time to locate and dispose of it compared to flakes or pellets.



There is nothing wrong with using pellets for your primary food source. They are packed with nutrients and protein to help keep your fish happy and healthy. What I noticed over time when switching from flake/pellets to fresh/frozen prepared foods is the volume of waste produced by my fish. I would see far less fish poop when I fed a diet of mixed frozen/fresh than I did when feeding flake/pellets. You wouldn't want to rinse the pellets unless you had a fish that is rather finicky about the pellets being hard vs softened via soaking. I use a mixed food source of mysis, fish eggs or zoo plankton, and marine cuisine or sometimes fresh diced bay scallop or gulf shrimp. I thaw/rinse the food using a micro screen tea strainer and use a 10Ml dosing syringe with a length of airline and some tank water so I can target feed my fish and minimize the nutrient build up

The biggest thing to note with your nano setup is the lack of nutrient export other than water changes. Because of this you want to stay on top of what you're putting in the tank as it can and will build up over time. Another option for nutrient export is get a magnetic nori clip and get a golf ball sized chunk of chaeto or live ulva lactuca and secure it to the clip and stick it on the back glass in the tank or where ever will work. Either of these will go crazy on the phosphates especially the ulva and will quickly reduce them down. Then as they grow, you can remove portions of them effectively removing the trapped nutrients inside. If you go with ulva, it can be dried and then used to feed other herbivores as well.

The strainer I use is this one.

https://www.amazon.com/Empress-Tea-...8&qid=1546015214&sr=8-8&keywords=tea+strainer

It easily handles two cubes of mysis, a cube each of calimus (zoo plankton) or fish eggs and marine cuisine when thawing. I then transfer the food to the cup portion and suck it up from that for feeding.

ok so ill start straining my mysis shrimp cubes, im going to setup my refugium and hopefully fit my protein skimmer into it, also the zoo plank i feed is in a bottle how much of this are you suppose to feed cause i do literally a drop and some reef frenzy mix it with tank water and use a tiny baster to shoot at some corals