SPS acros dying from tips.

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tundraguy1106

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In regards to your rock did you start with only dry rock? Did you use any live rock to start or seed?
Dry rock only. I’ve seeded the tank with different bottled bacteria. No actual live rock. Although I’m not against it. Was just trying to keep pests to a minimum. I purchased chaeto from a guy on here and ended up with a huge flatworm issue. This why I started keeping wrasses.
 

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Sponges all over my sump (tiny white ones),good coralline algae. Tank is almost 2 years old. I usually siphon the sandbed during water changes (once a month/ every 2-3 weeks) and stir it up once a week. Should I maybe leave it alone and let diatoms build up?
Sounds like the system is amply mature for SPS. Next suggestion is the ICP test.

Mixed opinions about disturbing the sand bed. It is a part of my regular maintenance as well, but with dinos in it, I vote not to for a bit. Dinos are edge competitors that perform best when the system is "disturbed" -- most often this is a nutrient collapse but not always.
 

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Dry rock only. I’ve seeded the tank with different bottled bacteria. No actual live rock. Although I’m not against it. Was just trying to keep pests to a minimum. I purchased chaeto from a guy on here and ended up with a huge flatworm issue. This why I started keeping wrasses.
I've been researching and mentally documenting the struggles with algae for those with and without live rock as of late. I understand that this doesnt apply to everyone however it appears to me that a good portion of reefers to use "dry rock" regardless of the curing process etc eventually struggle with Dino's,Cyano etc more so than reefers who started with real live uncured aquacultured rock.

I'm just now getting back into the hobby after a 10 year hiatus and LR was still readily available back when I reefed. This new"ish" trend of dry rock definitely seems have it benefits ( zero gravity, molding capabilities) however almost 75% of those I've quizzed who struggle with dino's and cyano have started with dry rock.

I know this isn't answering your SPS question but I've found it fascinating. Based on the struggles I keep reading with dry rock theres no doubt in my mind that I'll be going with aquacultured rock from KP or something similar because it just seems to provide maturity to our systems much faster than dry rock and without nearly as many algae issues down the road.
 

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I've been researching and mentally documenting the struggles with algae for those with and without live rock as of late. I understand that this doesnt apply to everyone however it appears to me that a good portion of reefers to use "dry rock" regardless of the curing process etc eventually struggle with Dino's,Cyano etc more so than reefers who started with real live uncured aquacultured rock.

I'm just now getting back into the hobby after a 10 year hiatus and LR was still readily available back when I reefed. This new"ish" trend of dry rock definitely seems have it benefits ( zero gravity, molding capabilities) however almost 75% of those I've quizzed who struggle with dino's and cyano have started with dry rock.

I know this isn't answering your SPS question but I've found it fascinating. Based on the struggles I keep reading with dry rock theres no doubt in my mind that I'll be going with aquacultured rock from KP or something similar because it just seems to provide maturity to our systems much faster than dry rock and without nearly as many algae issues down the road.

Yup, I'd much rather deal with potentially "killing some weeds" (aiptasia, etc) than I would pumping money into bottled bacteria, and fighting Dino's, etc.
#givemeliverockandcrapoutofyoursumpsock
 

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Dinos come from a lack of phosphate and imbalance to nutrients in tank versus bacteria. Give the tank more cycle time, to see where the deficiency lies. Dry rock takes time to cure. Hope that helps.
 
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tundraguy1106

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Dinos come from a lack of phosphate and imbalance to nutrients in tank versus bacteria. Give the tank more cycle time, to see where the deficiency lies. Dry rock takes time to cure. Hope that helps.
Tanks too old (2 years) to still be cycling. I agree with nutrient imbalance. My Hanna phosphate checker was steady at .04-.03 however after researching more about this issue I’ve learned that my test could actually be zero or close to it. I have since raise my nitrates to 10 and phosphates to .08 however I’m seeing more acros starting to decline (montipora’s that once we’re starting to decline, perked back up, and now are declining again)!!! I’m hoping my ICP test results come in soon. They reached their destination in California this morning but I’m guessing now they have to ship them out to Germany. The Dinos showing up means my nutrients bottomed out despite showing up on my Hanna test results.

The only other thing that I think could be an issue is my alkalinity test. Also a Hanna which is steady at 8.1 however when checked against a salifert, the salifert was 9.5. I’m I’m really losing my patience with SPS! How are some SPS coloring up while the tips are dying and have STN. Just doesn’t make sense. All my LPS corals do well except for my pectinia that took a hit from an alkalinity spike. Not positive on that. This was right around the time all my SPS issues started, so maybe whatever is affecting them, is affecting the pectinia.

We pay all of this money on these test kits to only end up more confused and frustrated!

I have started dosing spongeexcel for the silicates to battle the Dinos (minimum dose per gallon)
 
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tundraguy1106

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I highly suggest an Icp test

What and how much do you feed your fish/corals?
Waiting on my ICP results now. I also tested my water with every test kit I had the day I shipped my samples out. I feed my fish approximately 4 times a day. Hikari type s pellets through an auto feeder morning, afternoon and night and then frozen food mixed with selcon once per day. Sometimes a piece of nori on a clip too at night. I have a 120 gallon tank with a 36 gallon sump. No macros at the moment since I never had a need (high nitrates/phosphates). However I do have a chamber with a light running from 0000-0700 to keep PH stable. Some bio block media in that area and snails.

livestock is:
Kole tang
Chocolate Tang
Pair of percula clowns
Male and female bellus angels
Regal Angel (no noticeable nipping)
Yellow coris wrasse
Two leopard wrasses
Golden Midas blenny
Orange back wrasse
Carpenters wrasse
And I’m currently quarantining a algae blenny (he might stay in quarantine when I switch it over to a frag tank) and a pair of diamond gobies. Hope all that info helps!
 

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Waiting on my ICP results now. I also tested my water with every test kit I had the day I shipped my samples out. I feed my fish approximately 4 times a day. Hikari type s pellets through an auto feeder morning, afternoon and night and then frozen food mixed with selcon once per day. Sometimes a piece of nori on a clip too at night. I have a 120 gallon tank with a 36 gallon sump. No macros at the moment since I never had a need (high nitrates/phosphates). However I do have a chamber with a light running from 0000-0700 to keep PH stable. Some bio block media in that area and snails.

livestock is:
Kole tang
Chocolate Tang
Pair of percula clowns
Male and female bellus angels
Regal Angel (no noticeable nipping)
Yellow coris wrasse
Two leopard wrasses
Golden Midas blenny
Orange back wrasse
Carpenters wrasse
And I’m currently quarantining a algae blenny (he might stay in quarantine when I switch it over to a frag tank) and a pair of diamond gobies. Hope all that info helps!
Sounds like you’re feeding plenty and hopefully your Icp test will reveal the problem. I have never owned an Angel fish so I can’t say worry/don’t worry about them.
 
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tundraguy1106

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Sounds like you’re feeding plenty and hopefully your Icp test will reveal the problem. I have never owned an Angel fish so I can’t say worry/don’t worry about them.
Bellus angels are documented as being reef friendly. Regals are nippers but mostly with soft fleshy LPS corals and clams. I never noticed either nipping.

im thinking it’s my alkalinity tests being off or some sort of metals in my tank and RO water. Fingers crossed I get the results within the next week.
 

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Tanks too old (2 years) to still be cycling. I agree with nutrient imbalance. My Hanna phosphate checker was steady at .04-.03 however after researching more about this issue I’ve learned that my test could actually be zero or close to it. I have since raise my nitrates to 10 and phosphates to .08 however I’m seeing more acros starting to decline (montipora’s that once we’re starting to decline, perked back up, and now are declining again)!!! I’m hoping my ICP test results come in soon. They reached their destination in California this morning but I’m guessing now they have to ship them out to Germany. The Dinos showing up means my nutrients bottomed out despite showing up on my Hanna test results.

The only other thing that I think could be an issue is my alkalinity test. Also a Hanna which is steady at 8.1 however when checked against a salifert, the salifert was 9.5. I’m I’m really losing my patience with SPS! How are some SPS coloring up while the tips are dying and have STN. Just doesn’t make sense. All my LPS corals do well except for my pectinia that took a hit from an alkalinity spike. Not positive on that. This was right around the time all my SPS issues started, so maybe whatever is affecting them, is affecting the pectinia.

We pay all of this money on these test kits to only end up more confused and frustrated!

I have started dosing spongeexcel for the silicates to battle the Dinos (minimum dose per gallon)
Yes, 2 years should be your stability setting but dealing with dry rock, I went through the same problems for at least 1 1/2 before the tank actually settled. My tank turnt out to be more phosphate deficient dealing with dry rock so I keep my phos much higher than my nitrates. 0.20 phosphate and 0.05 nitrates. Keep parameters in check and use uv and ozone to kill remaining nuisance bacteria i.e dino or cyno. You should balance out eventually. Dinos will kill Acropora if its numbers arent kept in check.
 

Charlie’s Frags

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Bellus angels are documented as being reef friendly. Regals are nippers but mostly with soft fleshy LPS corals and clams. I never noticed either nipping.

im thinking it’s my alkalinity tests being off or some sort of metals in my tank and RO water. Fingers crossed I get the results within the next week.
My alk is not and has never been “stable” and I’ve never had an issue. It swings from 6.0-8.5 pretty regularly. I wouldn’t worry too much about “alk swings”
0E5632ED-73BF-4CA3-8D85-B5BFF7443B4D.png
 

DMG Reef

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My alk is not and has never been “stable” and I’ve never had an issue. It swings from 6.0-8.5 pretty regularly. I wouldn’t worry too much about “alk swings”
0E5632ED-73BF-4CA3-8D85-B5BFF7443B4D.png
Maybe a 1.5 dkh swing is acceptable, but I don't recommend going from 8 to 12 dkh. This was the result of an alk swing of 4-5 dkh overnight.

FE5F0682-412A-46C6-8F67-5F17A71A1DCE.jpeg
 

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Maybe a 1.5 dkh swing is acceptable, but I don't recommend going from 8 to 12 dkh. This was the result of an alk swing of 4-5 dkh overnight.

FE5F0682-412A-46C6-8F67-5F17A71A1DCE.jpeg
I had a +32dKh swing overnight in august 2019 and didn’t lose anything. Went from 8 to over 40 after I had a doser malfunction drain an entire alk reservoir.
 
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Charlie’s Frags

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I’ve been doing this a long time.
15 years ago I would bring my alk to 13-14 from 7-8 every week and never lost anything back then either. I have a pretty recent thread where I brought my back up system to 9 from 5 over night and guess what....no issues, at all. Maybe my corals are just healthier bc I don’t over strip the water. Or maybe I have magical powers
 

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I had a +32dKh swing overnight in august 2019 and didn’t lose anything. Went from 8 to over 40 after I had doser malfunction drain an entire alk reservoir.
Yeah, I remember that. Didn't you correct it quickly? Or moved the acros? Anyway, alk swings will definitely kill acros. I'm surprised you would dispute that. See pic above.
 

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Yeah, I remember that. Didn't you correct it quickly? Or moved the acros? Anyway, alk swings will definitely kill acros. I'm surprised you would dispute that. See pic above.
I got out what I could with the 5 minutes I had before I had to leave for work. I had 10 colonies that were attached to my rock structure. So they were in 40 dKh for more than 18 hours. I changed 90% of the water and the dKh came down to 16, still no losses.

Why would you be surprised that I would say that? I think “alk swing paranoia” is B S. Just like higher than 5 no3/ 0.05 po4 kills acros. I’m sorry you lost those corals but I doubt it was from a 4 dKh swing.
 

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I got out what I could with the 5 minutes I had before I had to leave for work. I had 10 colonies that were attached to my rock structure. So they were in 40 dKh for more than 18 hours. I changed 90% of the water and the dKh came down to 16, still no losses.

Why would you be surprised that I would say that? I think “alk swing paranoia” is B S. Just like higher than 5 no3/ 0.05 po4 kills acros. I’m sorry you lost those corals but I doubt it was from a 4 dKh swing.
It was 100% from alk swing. That pic was 2 yrs. ago when I upgraded tanks. I've rebuilt my acro collection since then. I had stored the acros in a Rubbermaid bin for the night and mixed new saltwater for them. Was tired and didn't test the alk. It was 12. The tissue blew off every single one as I placed them in the new tank.
 
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