Tilefish ich or sand?

[christinna77]

Hey everyone, I woke up this morning and noticed tiny white dots on my new tilefish. I can't tell if it's just sand or ich. I got it from my LFS around 10d ago along with a butterfly, and it's been very active and behaving normally in QT. I didn't notice any of the dots until today, which makes me think it could just be sand (I'm using fine grains). It definitely likes to rest on the sand bed, but it's weird I never noticed it before. I just finished two rounds of GC, and the fish aren't in copper (I read tilefish don't tolerate it well), so I was just going to do observation only.

Here's a video (ignore the live brine shrimp - I’ve been trying to entice the butterfly to eat again as it stopped during GC):


@i cant think I'd appreciate your advice!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey everyone, I woke up this morning and noticed tiny white dots on my new tilefish. I can't tell if it's just sand or ich. I got it from my LFS around 10d ago along with a butterfly, and it's been very active and behaving normally in QT. I didn't notice any of the dots until today, which makes me think it could just be sand (I'm using fine grains). It definitely likes to rest on the sand bed, but it's weird I never noticed it before. I just finished two rounds of GC, and the fish aren't in copper (I read tilefish don't tolerate it well), so I was just going to do observation only.

Here's a video (ignore the live brine shrimp - I’ve been trying to entice the butterfly to eat again as it stopped during GC):


@i cant think I'd appreciate your advice!

two dots and on one side suggests sand grains but does not disqualify ich. This time tomorrow , view fish again. Ich multiplies every 24 hrs in both number and location and will confirm which it is.

 

[christinna77]

two dots and on one side suggests sand grains but does not disqualify ich. This time tomorrow , view fish again. Ich multiplies every 24 hrs in both number and location and will confirm which it is.

Thank you so much for the quick reply, will do!

 

[Tcook]

The clear part of the fins look clear which is good.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hey everyone, I woke up this morning and noticed tiny white dots on my new tilefish. I can't tell if it's just sand or ich. I got it from my LFS around 10d ago along with a butterfly, and it's been very active and behaving normally in QT. I didn't notice any of the dots until today, which makes me think it could just be sand (I'm using fine grains). It definitely likes to rest on the sand bed, but it's weird I never noticed it before. I just finished two rounds of GC, and the fish aren't in copper (I read tilefish don't tolerate it well), so I was just going to do observation only.

Here's a video (ignore the live brine shrimp - I’ve been trying to entice the butterfly to eat again as it stopped during GC):


@i cant think I'd appreciate your advice!

It could be sand, or even brine shrimp cysts, but it looks like ich to me......

 

[christinna77]

Thanks everyone for all your advice so far. I had time to take another video with the butterfly out (it usually hides when it sees me approaching the tank), and it seems to be affected too. At this point, I doubt it's just sand particles :/

 

[Mark82]

I’m gonna have to agree with you and say it’s ich. Bummer. I know your worried about them and copper, what about tank transfer method?

 

[christinna77]

I’m gonna have to agree with you and say it’s ich. Bummer. I know your worried about them and copper, what about tank transfer method?

Thank you. I'm going to try to raise the copper slowly in multiple daily doses and closely monitor. I don't have another tank and gear for TTM, nor I have anywhere to put it. I also try to avoid catching and transferring the tilefish, it got super stressed out last time, and I think I'd do even more damage like that. Especially since it's not showing any other symptoms and doing really well now.
Perhaps hypo could work too? If anyone can advise.

 

[Mark82]

Sounds like u have a good game plan. You got this.

 

[christinna77]

Sounds like u have a good game plan. You got this.

Thank you! I hope so. My partner, who usually doesn't care much about the tank, really grew attached to the tilefish in the past week, same as me, so it'd be absolutely heartbreaking if I lost it.

One more question for anyone reading this thread: since I already did two rounds of GC (4 days apart) for other diseases, can I treat with 2.5 ppm copper for the next 2 weeks and then transfer straight into my DT if there are no other symptoms? I'd really like to reduce the time it has to stay in copper.

 

[Mark82]

I’d say yes. 14 days in copper at therapeutic levels, no signs of symptoms. You should be good. Best of luck to you guys.

 

[Mark82]

I just seen this

The importance of 30 day copper QT….

The last batch of fish I QT’ed for a full 30 days of copper and two separate weeks of prazi showed ich about a week into copper. The batch of tangs I have now showed ich after two weeks and a few days. How people dare to mess with the idea that two weeks is good enough is a scary thought. The...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[christinna77]

Thanks! I wonder if it was because the fish weren't transferred after the 14 days, and in that case could have gotten reinfected, but that's just my guess.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks! I wonder if it was because the fish weren't transferred after the 14 days, and in that case could have gotten reinfected, but that's just my guess.

The tilefish still has spots, so I’d say that’s ich. However, the 3 large bumps on the pyramid butterfly and its rapid breathing is some other issue. Is it feeding normally?

Don’t delay on getting the copper level up to 2.25 ppm asap. Ramping up slowly only applies to ionic copper.

 

[christinna77]

The tilefish still has spots, so I’d say that’s ich. However, the 3 large bumps on the pyramid butterfly and its rapid breathing is done other issue. Is it feeding normally?

Don’t delay on getting the copper level up to 2.25 ppm asap. Ramping up slowly only applies to ionic copper.

Thank you. Yep, both of them still have the spots, I'm going forward with copper. The butterfly was eating well until Thursday last week (3 days into GC treatment), and the bumps appeared on Monday. I looked it up and assumed it was lympho. It had just arrived at my LFS from their supplier when I picked it up a few days earlier, so I attributed it to stress. It's still active and swimming around, but mostly ignoring any food I offer (I've tried fresh mussels, seaweed, various pellets, reef frenzy, mysis, and live brine shrimp).

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you. Yep, both of them still have the spots, I'm going forward with copper. The butterfly was eating well until Thursday last week (3 days into GC treatment), and the bumps appeared on Monday. I looked it up and assumed it was lympho. It had just arrived at my LFS from their supplier when I picked it up a few days earlier, so I attributed it to stress. It's still active and swimming around, but mostly ignoring any food I offer (I've tried fresh mussels, seaweed, various pellets, reef frenzy, mysis, and live brine shrimp).

Those spots are "eruptive", that is, they seem to be coming up from under the scales. That, combined with the rapid breathing and not eating tells me the pyramid has something else in addition to ich, and it isn't Lymphocystis. Copper only works for external protozoan parasites, so while that will cure ich, it won't address those larger bumps. Something we call "Ichthyophonus hoferi" is an internal, non-treatable fungal disease that is seen from time to time that can cause eruptions like that. I don't have any course of action to offer you about that, sorry!

 

[christinna77]

Thank you. Yep, both of them still have the spots, I'm going forward with copper. The butterfly was eating well until Thursday last week (3 days into GC treatment), and the bumps appeared on Monday. I looked it up and assumed it was lympho. It had just arrived at my LFS from their supplier when I picked it up a few days earlier, so I attributed it to stress. It's still active and swimming around, but mostly ignoring any food I offer (I've tried fresh mussels, seaweed, various pellets, reef frenzy, mysis, and live brine shrimp).

Those spots are "eruptive", that is, they seem to be coming up from under the scales. That, combined with the rapid breathing and not eating tells me the pyramid has something else in addition to ich, and it isn't Lymphocystis. Copper only works for external protozoan parasites, so while that will cure ich, it won't address those larger bumps. Something we call "Ichthyophonus hoferi" is an internal, non-treatable fungal disease that is seen from time to time that can cause eruptions like that. I don't have any course of action to offer you about that, sorry!

Thanks, Jay, really appreciate your advice. I googled around, and the prognosis isn't good. I'm going to continue with the copper treatment and hope for the best. Is the tilefish in any danger, can it get infected from the butterfly?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks, Jay, really appreciate your advice. I googled around, and the prognosis isn't good. I'm going to continue with the copper treatment and hope for the best. Is the tilefish in any danger, can it get infected from the butterfly?

That's a good question, but one that I can't really answer. Many internal issues are not highly contagious to other species....

 

[christinna77]

Thanks, Jay, really appreciate your advice. I googled around, and the prognosis isn't good. I'm going to continue with the copper treatment and hope for the best. Is the tilefish in any danger, can it get infected from the butterfly?

That's a good question, but one that I can't really answer. Many internal issues are not highly contagious to other species....

I see, thank you. Guess we'll find out. Only a few months into the hobby, so this has been a really nice welcome so far glad I've been QTing everything.

 

[christinna77]

Update: Been around 12 hours at 2.2 copper power. The tilefish is doing great so far. The butterfly is definitely worse today and not eating, but it's trying its best and still swimming around. Unsure if i should consider euthanizing it later on. Heartbreaking, it's a beautiful fish.