TM Pro phosphate in mix?

[Paul Kinsella]

@Paul Kinsella I just wanted to make sure that you had seen my reply of information above. I think I addressed most of your concerns in that email. Here it is again:

I did. Thank you Lou.

 

[glendale789]

I never thought to test my freshly mixed tm reef pro until I read this thread. I just tested with Hanna ULR and it was 0.09! No wonder I can’t get it down in my tank. Ugh.

 

[Reef.]

I never thought to test my freshly mixed tm reef pro until I read this thread. I just tested with Hanna ULR and it was 0.09! No wonder I can’t get it down in my tank. Ugh.

If your tank has say .05 PO4, doing a 20% water change would have next to no affect to your tank.

 

[Christopher Aslett]

Notwithstanding the official reply above, I was informed many years ago by a reputable reef authority, it's in there intentionally because some people get nutrient limitation. Hence every water change is like a nutrient-rich upwelling. They are not the only brand that does this. Kudos for spotting it. I noticed it with Tropic Marine over 20 years ago. With regard to Analar (ordinary laboratory) grade chemicals, they do not have contamination in the region of that concentration. I used to work in an analytical chemistry laboratory so I know this for sure. The phosphate is definitely delectable on any test kit. My systems ordinarily suffer from nutrient limitation so I am considering switching to this brand. Thanks for confirming the Pro has it too.

 

[Lou Ekus]

I only replied with a thank you but hindsight had a couple thoughts:
1. I felt like the email excused the low levels of phosphate in their salt. Personally, part of the reason I do water changes is to decrease any excess levels of nutrients. Why would I want to add any back into my system, especially through a water change?
2. TM claims pharmaceutical grade ingredients. What levels of phosphate would then disqualify TM from having "pharmaceutical grade" on their label?

I do not have plans to change from TM as I still believe they are still at the top of the competition IMO. I do not have the "gunk" buildups with TM. They mix to 7.1 to 7.5 DKH which works perfect for me.
I do get word from the streets that COVID has compromised product supply chains and therefore might be a contributing factor to the phosphate in their salt mix.
Just my thoughts.

@Paul Kinsella Just to clarify,PO4 is not a regulated compound in the pharmaceutical grade criteria. So the "disqualification" from the pharmaceutical grade doesn't really apply to that particular parameter.

Also, the COVID crisis has certainly had influences in the supply chain from the standpoint of shipping when getting product from our labs in Europe over here to the US. But it has definitely NOT had any influence on ANY of the parameters in our products.

I hope this helps clarify a few things.

 

[Christopher Aslett]

If you're running fish only system, water changes are effective a reducing high concentrations of pollutants. However, they are pretty inept and reducing low concentrations. 10% Of 40 mg/l is 4 mg/l, however, 10% of 4mg/l is 0.4mg/l. The law of diminishing returns. If you get to nutrient limitation a drop or two of mains water soon sorts that out. I mean a drop. Its PO43- concentration is usually ~1 mg/l. Nitrate in mains is usually low. Feed more. Water changes are important to replace trace elements such as iodine.

Tropic Marin has been like that for donkey's. I do not think it reflects on quality of the product. As I understand it, it always was included in the formulation intentionally. It should therefore, be easy enough to exclude. What does the modern reef aquarist demand?

 

[Paul Kinsella]

Pharmaceutical Grade Salt for the Modern Aquaria!

Designed to meet the strict requirements of reef aquariums, Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt mix contains optimized levels of calcium and magnesium while keeping the correct pH value and a balance of all 70 trace elements required by corals to grow and thrive. Pro-Reef is the ideal start to any new tank from fish only to a full-blown reef tank, not to mention when used as the salt for your water changes, it will help re-equilibrate the pH of the tank, allowing the proper balance of carbonates to bicarbonates leading to faster overall coral growth.

• Mixes fast & clear
• Helps stabilize pH
• Made from pharmaceutical materials
• Suitable for systems using a calcium reactor
• Optimizes calcium & magnesium
• Contains all major and minor elements
• Perfect for fish only or coral reef aquariums
• Does not contain unwanted nitrates or phosphates

Above is from the BRS website. What does "Does not contain unwanted nitrates or phosphates" mean?

 

[Ryan Avery]

Pharmaceutical Grade Salt for the Modern Aquaria!

Designed to meet the strict requirements of reef aquariums, Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt mix contains optimized levels of calcium and magnesium while keeping the correct pH value and a balance of all 70 trace elements required by corals to grow and thrive. Pro-Reef is the ideal start to any new tank from fish only to a full-blown reef tank, not to mention when used as the salt for your water changes, it will help re-equilibrate the pH of the tank, allowing the proper balance of carbonates to bicarbonates leading to faster overall coral growth.

• Mixes fast & clear
• Helps stabilize pH
• Made from pharmaceutical materials
• Suitable for systems using a calcium reactor
• Optimizes calcium & magnesium
• Contains all major and minor elements
• Perfect for fish only or coral reef aquariums
• Does not contain unwanted nitrates or phosphates

Above is from the BRS website. What does "Does not contain unwanted nitrates or phosphates" mean?

Fair point

 

[Lou Ekus]

Pharmaceutical Grade Salt for the Modern Aquaria!

Designed to meet the strict requirements of reef aquariums, Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt mix contains optimized levels of calcium and magnesium while keeping the correct pH value and a balance of all 70 trace elements required by corals to grow and thrive. Pro-Reef is the ideal start to any new tank from fish only to a full-blown reef tank, not to mention when used as the salt for your water changes, it will help re-equilibrate the pH of the tank, allowing the proper balance of carbonates to bicarbonates leading to faster overall coral growth.

• Mixes fast & clear
• Helps stabilize pH
• Made from pharmaceutical materials
• Suitable for systems using a calcium reactor
• Optimizes calcium & magnesium
• Contains all major and minor elements
• Perfect for fish only or coral reef aquariums
• Does not contain unwanted nitrates or phosphates

Above is from the BRS website. What does "Does not contain unwanted nitrates or phosphates" mean?

Please look back at the first page of this thread. I explain in detail exactly what these kinds of statements mean. If you still have questions after reading my explanation, please feel free to email or PM me directly.

 

[Paul Kinsella]

Lou,
I did read your post on the first page of the thread, both back in February when you posted your statement as well as just again today.

Specifically:

"On some Tropic Marin packaging there is still the historical statement "Free of phosphates and nitrates". Since this topic has just recently come to light, we see it as our responsibility to immediately change these statements on the remaining labels and on our homepage. We are currently in the process of changing both our electronic and physical labeling."

You also stated:
"No phosphate has been added to Tropic Marin sea salts for almost 30 years. (this, by the way, is where the old “no phosphate/no nitrate” labeling comes from. Originally it meant “no added phosphates or nitrates”)

All I was trying to do is notify that BRS is stating on their website that Tropic Marin Pro Reef "Does not contain unwanted nitrates or phosphates". Your statement back in February does not clarify the way in which the words are phrased in this particular statement. Is it possible that "no added phosphates or nitrates" might provide a better description of the product? I am not sure.

Maybe BRS missed the memo and just needs to clarify and update what "unwanted" means, or just take off their website.

Again, I still use TM Pro and will continue to use TM Pro.

 

[Lou Ekus]

Lou,
I did read your post on the first page of the thread, both back in February when you posted your statement as well as just again today.

Specifically:

"On some Tropic Marin packaging there is still the historical statement "Free of phosphates and nitrates". Since this topic has just recently come to light, we see it as our responsibility to immediately change these statements on the remaining labels and on our homepage. We are currently in the process of changing both our electronic and physical labeling."

You also stated:
"No phosphate has been added to Tropic Marin sea salts for almost 30 years. (this, by the way, is where the old “no phosphate/no nitrate” labeling comes from. Originally it meant “no added phosphates or nitrates”)

All I was trying to do is notify that BRS is stating on their website that Tropic Marin Pro Reef "Does not contain unwanted nitrates or phosphates". Your statement back in February does not clarify the way in which the words are phrased in this particular statement. Is it possible that "no added phosphates or nitrates" might provide a better description of the product? I am not sure.

Maybe BRS missed the memo and just needs to clarify and update what "unwanted" means, or just take off their website.

Again, I still use TM Pro and will continue to use TM Pro.

I may be mistaken, but my guess is that when they say "no unwanted nitrates or phosphates" they mean that there would not be higher than natural sea water concentrations. Of course, I am with Tropic Marin not @Bulk Reef Supply , so I can't be sure about that. They will probably respond here with an answer when they see they are copied into this thread.